2020 NEXT GENERATION 992 SPY PICS & RELEASE
10-12-2017, 02:52 PM
#571
Yeah, that's a Mission E mule they're disguising to look like a Panamera in my opinion.
I think given the reaction the Mission E got potential buyers will be put off if they don't get closer than the mule.
As for my wish for more Mission E styling I was primarily hoping that the nose and lighting would be stolen from it for the 911, not the whole design
I think given the reaction the Mission E got potential buyers will be put off if they don't get closer than the mule.
As for my wish for more Mission E styling I was primarily hoping that the nose and lighting would be stolen from it for the 911, not the whole design
As for the lights. NFW!
10-12-2017, 04:00 PM
#572
Rennlist Member
And on the weight they left some high strength steel in the back end so they have some low hanging fruit to work with as far as mass goes - just do a few material changes. Packaging will probably be the toughest thing for them though as the lighter weight options typically require more volume.
10-12-2017, 04:10 PM
#573
Race Car
Yeah, that's a Mission E mule they're disguising to look like a Panamera in my opinion.
I think given the reaction the Mission E got potential buyers will be put off if they don't get closer than the mule.
As for my wish for more Mission E styling I was primarily hoping that the nose and lighting would be stolen from it for the 911, not the whole design
I think given the reaction the Mission E got potential buyers will be put off if they don't get closer than the mule.
As for my wish for more Mission E styling I was primarily hoping that the nose and lighting would be stolen from it for the 911, not the whole design
10-12-2017, 06:01 PM
#574
My point is not that one is better than the other. It's simply that some prefer instant throttle response and revving the motor out, while others prefer the low end power and are willing to deal with the slight turbo lag to get it. It really just boils down to you preference as I have stated multiple time already. No right or wrong choice here.
My point was that MB was able to really get close to perfection with the similarly priced AMG GTS in terms of sound and responsiveness. Still a bit of lag but not as noticeable as the .2's off the line and yes, I have a decent amount of seat time in both.
Ultimately, I don't think you'll be disappointed as the 992 will have the 9A2 with the base model delivering 425HP with 500Nm, the S will be ~ 450HP with 550Nm and the GTS will have ~ 475HP with >550Nm. Standard Porsche operating procedure. .
Perhaps the most important chore for Porsche with respect to the 992 - is weight reduction and split (its a given PDK, suspension, infotainment, EAS and tires will be tweaked). It will be incrementally better than the 991.2 - business as usual
. Perhaps the most important chore for Porsche with respect to the 992 - is weight reduction and split (its a given PDK, suspension, infotainment, EAS and tires will be tweaked). It will be incrementally better than the 991.2 - business as usual
Last edited by phow; 10-12-2017 at 06:22 PM.
10-12-2017, 09:48 PM
#575
I love my PDK right now because it can do everything so much better than I could. However, some days, I do wish it were a manual. But when I drive my GTI with a manual, I am reminded of why I went with the PDK. Unless the manual gearbox is set up how I prefer (with fast shifts), it takes the fun out of it for me. The GTI has awful rev hang that makes it frustrating to drive. Even my Camaro had some rev hang that kept me from driving it how I would like. My '99 boxster has the best gearbox I have ever driven, fast shifts and a slightly heavier clutch pedal. I would be concerned that I would be so absorbed in finding ways to fine tune the manual gearbox in the 991 that it would take the fun away.
10-12-2017, 10:53 PM
#576
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The difference between the sound of the GT S powerplant and any 911 powerplant is in the layout of the cylinders. It's much easier to make a V8 sound good (even with blowers) than a boxer or flat 6 engine.
10-12-2017, 11:41 PM
#577
EMBRACING the good of turbo sounds ends up being better than trying to pose as N/A.
10-12-2017, 11:59 PM
#578
The .2 has really let that aspect down to me, as when I hear it on the roads, it just doesn't sound right. Essentially and when broken down, we're talking a 3.0L F6 vs a 3.4/3.8L F6, with lower compression, less power made by itself- naturally (i.e the only part that affects the actual mechanical sound), and an extra muffler (turbos essentially act as mufflers). It's just not on the same sound level as N/A Flat 6's. Will be hard for them to "fix" that with the 992 unless they discover some magical way to get around the fundamental harmonics of an engine and power adders.
.2's might SOUND better inside than they do outside (yet still not as good as a .1), but it's because Porsche specifically pipes in as much of the natural sound that they can (to make it sound as close to an N/A flat 6 as possible), thus it's semi artificial.
10-13-2017, 01:07 AM
#579
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
10-13-2017, 01:13 AM
#580
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
V8's always sound good. But they all sound alike (like V8's). Sort of a generic sound. To me, the Porsche Flat 6 is aural art, one of a kind, nothing like it.
The .2 has really let that aspect down to me, as when I hear it on the roads, it just doesn't sound right. Essentially and when broken down, we're talking a 3.0L F6 vs a 3.4/3.8L F6, with lower compression, less power made by itself- naturally (i.e the only part that affects the actual mechanical sound), and an extra muffler (turbos essentially act as mufflers). It's just not on the same sound level as N/A Flat 6's. Will be hard for them to "fix" that with the 992 unless they discover some magical way to get around the fundamental harmonics of an engine and power adders.
.2's might SOUND better inside than they do outside (yet still not as good as a .1), but it's because Porsche specifically pipes in as much of the natural sound that they can (to make it sound as close to an N/A flat 6 as possible), thus it's semi artificial.
The .2 has really let that aspect down to me, as when I hear it on the roads, it just doesn't sound right. Essentially and when broken down, we're talking a 3.0L F6 vs a 3.4/3.8L F6, with lower compression, less power made by itself- naturally (i.e the only part that affects the actual mechanical sound), and an extra muffler (turbos essentially act as mufflers). It's just not on the same sound level as N/A Flat 6's. Will be hard for them to "fix" that with the 992 unless they discover some magical way to get around the fundamental harmonics of an engine and power adders.
.2's might SOUND better inside than they do outside (yet still not as good as a .1), but it's because Porsche specifically pipes in as much of the natural sound that they can (to make it sound as close to an N/A flat 6 as possible), thus it's semi artificial.
It's just hard to get around the physics and engineering aspect of a Flat 6 when you add blowers to it.
It is what it is.
Sort of like I'm sure how Subaru does not intentionally try to have the WRX sound like a handheld vacuum cleaner with a severe asthma attack episode, and I'm sure Porsche didn't set out to have the 718 mimic the WRX.
But you can't fight physics.
10-13-2017, 01:28 AM
#581
Exactly.
It's just hard to get around the physics and engineering aspect of a Flat 6 when you add blowers to it.
It is what it is.
Sort of like I'm sure how Subaru does not intentionally try to have the WRX sound like a handheld vacuum cleaner with a severe asthma attack episode, and I'm sure Porsche didn't set out to have the 718 mimic the WRX.
But you can't fight physics.
It's just hard to get around the physics and engineering aspect of a Flat 6 when you add blowers to it.
It is what it is.
Sort of like I'm sure how Subaru does not intentionally try to have the WRX sound like a handheld vacuum cleaner with a severe asthma attack episode, and I'm sure Porsche didn't set out to have the 718 mimic the WRX.
But you can't fight physics.
10-13-2017, 06:17 AM
#582
I would certainly hope there are happy .2 owners out there
My point is not that one is better than the other. It's simply that some prefer instant throttle response and revving the motor out, while others prefer the low end power and are willing to deal with the slight turbo lag to get it. It really just boils down to you preference as I have stated multiple time already. No right or wrong choice here.
We were talking about the .1 and .2 Carrera's. Not the GT2RS, TTS or far more expensive 488... The comparison was also including sound, not just turbo lag. The .2 has a slight lag and the soundtrack of an angry vacuum cleaner until you get into the higher RPM range.
My point was that MB was able to really get close to perfection with the similarly priced AMG GTS in terms of sound and responsiveness. Still a bit of lag but not as noticeable as the .2's off the line and yes, I have a decent amount of seat time in both.
My primary hope for the 992 is that Porsche sorts out the responsiveness and sound. If they can check both of those boxes, I will likely be a buyer. I have my fingers crossed.
My point is not that one is better than the other. It's simply that some prefer instant throttle response and revving the motor out, while others prefer the low end power and are willing to deal with the slight turbo lag to get it. It really just boils down to you preference as I have stated multiple time already. No right or wrong choice here.
We were talking about the .1 and .2 Carrera's. Not the GT2RS, TTS or far more expensive 488... The comparison was also including sound, not just turbo lag. The .2 has a slight lag and the soundtrack of an angry vacuum cleaner until you get into the higher RPM range.
My point was that MB was able to really get close to perfection with the similarly priced AMG GTS in terms of sound and responsiveness. Still a bit of lag but not as noticeable as the .2's off the line and yes, I have a decent amount of seat time in both.
My primary hope for the 992 is that Porsche sorts out the responsiveness and sound. If they can check both of those boxes, I will likely be a buyer. I have my fingers crossed.
. I think my .2 SX51 sounds angry above 4000rpm - where it should be angry and it doesn't **** the neighbours off. Basically, there is no win in this debate. Your comment on responsiveness is simply incorrect - in the first instance the twin turbo responds, at the very worst as a 3l NA DFI engine.
However, if you are in sport mode you sit at 2000rpm and its job done.
Also you don't have instant throttle response with a NA engine - its about 0.2s. The reality is you can't separate throttle response and engine response - they both act in concert to deliver performance. We could have a discussion about compression ratios to illustrate the point. I do a lot of track time (probably 26 on the clock events this year and that excludes set up days) and I can assure you I have no issue with throttle response.
In regard to the MB commentary - I'm with the guys that gave the 488GTB engine the gong followed by the 9A2. Both are excellent in design and execution and both deliver great performance - the performance figures clearly support this. At the end of the day the AMG GTS has other issues which cause it to be left in show rooms.
You need to look at the performance of the 991.2GTS versus 991.1 series cars including GT3 RS/ GT3/ Turbo etc or 458 Italia or for that matter 488GTB. It reveals, as always that Porsche is the exemplar of integrated performance and the 9AS clearly delivers the heart and lungs to match the performance of some very highly regarded cars. To be frank its no surprise given Porsche have been building "turbos" since the dawn of time and the GT2RS is very much the top dog.
Anyhow, Porsche will pretty much go forward with the 992 as outlined in my previous post - and guess what, it will be a better car than the 991.2 - thats evolution and thats a good thing
Moreover, if you want a NA manual put money down on a GT3 or GT3 Touring edition. Porsche caters for all niche markets. Its a good business model as everyone gets the car that they want.
Last edited by randr; 10-13-2017 at 08:24 AM.
10-13-2017, 10:56 AM
#585
The .2 GTS does not sound all that bad,....but the 4 cylinder 718s sound absolutely terrible to me. I believe it was one of the recent magazine articles that compared the Cayman's sound to a "garbage disposal with a fork stuck in it",....couldn't agree more.