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2020 NEXT GENERATION 992 SPY PICS & RELEASE

 
Old 05-14-2017, 09:19 PM
  #346  
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Originally Posted by Noah Fect View Post
There were some interesting things they could have done, and I'm somewhat disappointed that they chose not to try. There is no law that says that a hybrid 911 would have had to suck.

For instance, they could have turned the C4 into a hybrid by replacing the heavyweight mechanical AWD system with a pair of electric motors in the front hubs. It wouldn't have to weigh that much more, it would take advantage of regenerative braking and eliminate the need for lameness like auto start/stop, and it would save wear and tear on the engine in heavy traffic.
If it use the battery to store energy, what you described is similar to the gen 2 NSX and it weights a lot.

But if Porsche can use something lightweight like the KERS in the F1, that C4 hybrid you described does has potential.
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Old 05-14-2017, 09:58 PM
  #347  
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Originally Posted by STG View Post
Look the the craziness with GT model demand, not so great sales of 991.2, and sales disaster of 718. I think they're getting a dose of reality of what the market wants. You think anyone wants a 911 hybrid?

They can't move Penny or Cayenne hybrids as is.

They're hoping Mission E is a home run or they're in BIG trouble with the BIG $$$$ investment in it. I personally don't see electric moving forward as fast as many people think. Oil is cheap and plentiful, and political agendas change very often.
Agree completely with first 2 paragraphs, but not the third.
Sales ultimately guide business decisions and it's true people aren't yearning for a Porsche hybrid sports car. Better ways to spend your money. GT cars inspire passion, a 911 hybrid does not.

Biggest problem with hybrids is that they are compromised by nature because they have two drivetrains, which double the weight and instead of perfecting one or the other, you just get two half assed engines.

Plus it takes a lot more money to build and engineer a hybrid sports car which is why there are no hybrid sports cars under 150K.
There are hybrid SUVs under 150K, but all hybrid sedan/coupes under 150K, universally suck to drive. They aren't sporty or fun to drive, and if spending 6 figures on a car you want it to be fun to drive.

However, I think the Mission E will do well as long as they don't price it in the stratosphere. A well equipped Tesla Model S is kinda fun to drive as an electric car (unlike a hybrid), with the instant torque, Star Trek screen, and <3 sec 0-60 time. Teslas just don't handle as well as I would like, but I have no doubt the Mission E will handle well.

The Porsche name, Porsche handling, crazy 0-60 times,,,,,,,and the environmental cred of an electric car? I think the mission E will sell well in wealthy markets. Everyone in LA, Silicon Valley, Miami, and NYC, will dump their Tesla S for a Porsche electric sports car. The question is how well will the mission E sell in the middle of the country.

Last edited by Drifting; 05-15-2017 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 05-15-2017, 08:55 AM
  #348  
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Originally Posted by Drifting View Post
Biggest problem with hybrids is that they are compromised by nature because they have two drivetrains, which double the weight and instead of perfecting one or the other, you just get two half assed engines.
One person's problem can be another's getting some of the best of both worlds - IC and fuel economy.
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:42 PM
  #349  
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Originally Posted by Noah Fect View Post
Sorry, but this counterpoint is less than compelling. Also it's not very compelling.
The suggestion was to drop the AWD and put in electric motors and batteries instead. I was pointing out that it wouldn't be an even trade (on weight) as the electric components and batteries would weigh considerably more than the deleted AWD system.
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:10 PM
  #350  
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For the Mission E they're only targeting 20,000 sales. After they sell out they'll ride the tide of "exceed sales, estimates". "Selling them faster than they're making them".
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:11 PM
  #351  
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Originally Posted by LnC993 View Post
But if Porsche can use something lightweight like the KERS in the F1, that C4 hybrid you described does has potential.
IMHO a KERS works on a racecar because the drivers all have to know what they're doing, I think plenty of morons that buy Porsches would hit KERS in the middle of a turn or something and kill themselves.
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Old 05-15-2017, 05:53 PM
  #352  
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I think what people really want is a sports car that will drive itself without any input from you. That way you don't have to worry about things like feel or skill and can concentrate on things like checking the lap time of the autonomous car while you're sleeping in it.

Obviously secondary to not having to touch anything as long as it generates the fastest lap time is stopping global cooling/global warming/global temperature not changing enough by destroying the environment getting rare materials that could have much better uses and using them to power your $100k+ fun car subsidized by taxpayers and other automakers that shows how responsible you are to the planet. Once the battery fails dump in the garbage.

The only downside is the high levels of smug that the car emits while you're in it.
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Old 05-15-2017, 06:16 PM
  #353  
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Originally Posted by Gary JR View Post
One person's problem can be another's getting some of the best of both worlds - IC and fuel economy.
Hybrids are great at fuel economy, just not fun to drive. A Prius is great at maximum fuel economy, but not at putting a smile on your face.

You don't spend six figures on a car, just for fuel economy.
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Old 05-15-2017, 06:21 PM
  #354  
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Originally Posted by Drifting View Post

You don't spend six figures on a car, just for fuel economy.
Many Tesla owners do exactly that.
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:53 PM
  #355  
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Originally Posted by Gary JR View Post
Many Tesla owners do exactly that.
I worry you didn't thoroughly read my original post #347

a Tesla isn't a hybrid, it's electric. It's also fairly fun to drive with its insanse 0-60 time and tech filled interior. So these people are paying $100,000 for a car (Tesla) that uses no gas and is fairly fun to drive.
If you just want minimal emissions you spend much less on a Prius, but a Prius is not fun to drive.

As I stated earlier there are no hybrids under $150,000 that are sporty and fun to drive. 99% of hybrids are gutless, heavy, generally underpowered, with poor handling.
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:57 PM
  #356  
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Originally Posted by Dewinator View Post
IMHO a KERS works on a racecar because the drivers all have to know what they're doing, I think plenty of morons that buy Porsches would hit KERS in the middle of a turn or something and kill themselves.
LOL, this is so true.
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Old 05-16-2017, 08:29 AM
  #357  
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Originally Posted by Drifting View Post
I worry you didn't thoroughly read my original post #347

a Tesla isn't a hybrid, it's electric. It's also fairly fun to drive with its insanse 0-60 time and tech filled interior. So these people are paying $100,000 for a car (Tesla) that uses no gas and is fairly fun to drive.
If you just want minimal emissions you spend much less on a Prius, but a Prius is not fun to drive.

As I stated earlier there are no hybrids under $150,000 that are sporty and fun to drive. 99% of hybrids are gutless, heavy, generally underpowered, with poor handling.
Again disagree - once you've done "Ludicrous mode" straight away speed a few times it's like OK what's next? Hybrids esp. 100k ones can give you some best of both worlds.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:27 AM
  #358  
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More lapping at the Ring, sorryif repost.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:55 PM
  #359  
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That test driver is not taking it easy - car looks quick!
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:39 PM
  #360  
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hot off YouTube --

Parking brake is by the shifter

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