2020 NEXT GENERATION 992 SPY PICS & RELEASE
02-13-2018, 09:25 PM
#1006
02-13-2018, 11:01 PM
#1007
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
02-13-2018, 11:27 PM
#1008
02-13-2018, 11:29 PM
#1009
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
02-14-2018, 12:08 AM
#1010
02-14-2018, 12:20 AM
#1011
I just don’t get Porsche. Seems they’re falling into the BMW approach of “no fun projects, only sustainable or better statistical or more efficient which make sense.”
Having fun and doing things that make less sense to a boardroom and more to an enthusiast base is what made them who they are.
I just can’t wrap my head around it. Every N/A model they release now has people falling all over themselves to buy, paying massive markups, and are seeing little to no depreciation. GT3’s reportedly sold nearly as much as Carreras during the months they were available in 2017. At massive premiums. 718 GT4’s are going to be MASSIVE in terms of desirability and resale.
Manual .2 GT3’s saw huge reception.
Yet they're cutting N/A production, and maybe manual again. This is what happens when a company looks at the bottom line too closely. Having fun and experimenting, while throwing bones to purists does wonders and pays great dividends. Porsche knows this better than anyone. They literally built their brand around it.
We have the GT2, 992 Carreras will only get faster, the GTS is always here, 992 Turbo/Turbo S, turbo GT3, etc. Seems like the 911 line will be closing in on major redundancy next gen. A bunch of models revolving between the same 2 engines slightly tweaked and boosted differently.
Having fun and doing things that make less sense to a boardroom and more to an enthusiast base is what made them who they are.
I just can’t wrap my head around it. Every N/A model they release now has people falling all over themselves to buy, paying massive markups, and are seeing little to no depreciation. GT3’s reportedly sold nearly as much as Carreras during the months they were available in 2017. At massive premiums. 718 GT4’s are going to be MASSIVE in terms of desirability and resale.
Manual .2 GT3’s saw huge reception.
Yet they're cutting N/A production, and maybe manual again. This is what happens when a company looks at the bottom line too closely. Having fun and experimenting, while throwing bones to purists does wonders and pays great dividends. Porsche knows this better than anyone. They literally built their brand around it.
We have the GT2, 992 Carreras will only get faster, the GTS is always here, 992 Turbo/Turbo S, turbo GT3, etc. Seems like the 911 line will be closing in on major redundancy next gen. A bunch of models revolving between the same 2 engines slightly tweaked and boosted differently.
02-14-2018, 12:30 AM
#1012
I just don’t get Porsche. Seems they’re falling into the BMW approach of “no fun projects, only sustainable or better statistical or more efficient which make sense.”
Having fun and doing things that make less sense to a boardroom and more to an enthusiast base is what made them who they are.
I just can’t wrap my head around it. Every N/A model they release now has people falling all over themselves to buy, paying massive markups, and are seeing little to no depreciation. GT3’s reportedly sold nearly as much as Carreras during the months they were available in 2017. At massive premiums. 718 GT4’s are going to be MASSIVE in terms of desirability and resale.
Manual .2 GT3’s saw huge reception.
Yet they're cutting N/A production, and maybe manual again.This is what happens when a company looks at the bottom line too closely. Having fun and experimenting, while throwing bones to purists does wonders. Porsche knows this better than anyone. They literally built their brand around it.
Having fun and doing things that make less sense to a boardroom and more to an enthusiast base is what made them who they are.
I just can’t wrap my head around it. Every N/A model they release now has people falling all over themselves to buy, paying massive markups, and are seeing little to no depreciation. GT3’s reportedly sold nearly as much as Carreras during the months they were available in 2017. At massive premiums. 718 GT4’s are going to be MASSIVE in terms of desirability and resale.
Manual .2 GT3’s saw huge reception.
Yet they're cutting N/A production, and maybe manual again.This is what happens when a company looks at the bottom line too closely. Having fun and experimenting, while throwing bones to purists does wonders. Porsche knows this better than anyone. They literally built their brand around it.
Between the sound of the Webers, the road noise, and the absolute lack of insulation-- THAT is old Porsche. The stick GT3 was a callback, and they may kill it.
02-14-2018, 12:48 AM
#1013
So true. Call it BMWitis, after the company that smothered its 40 year long golden age. When I think of old Porsche, I think of the 69T I've had the pleasure of driving. That car is wonderful, and raw; it's most content state is being whipped *insert fifty shades joke here.*
Between the sound of the Webers, the road noise, and the absolute lack of insulation-- THAT is old Porsche. The stick GT3 was a callback, and they may kill it.
Between the sound of the Webers, the road noise, and the absolute lack of insulation-- THAT is old Porsche. The stick GT3 was a callback, and they may kill it.
It’s truly saddening. The end of an era and an interim before the 911 becomes a 1 second 0-60 capable autopilot EV that’s essentially a 911 shaped 2 door version of every other EV on the road.
What also sucks (for buyers, not for sellers and holders) is the next GT3 going turbo means 991 and previous GT3’s will soar in prices, thus become unnatainable. And of course, no N/A engine new car warranty.
I accept the logistical necessity for turbo 911’s in this day and age. But leave us ONE N/A passion project, Porsche! That’s all we ask. The money is there, the desire is there. .2 GT3 sales have GROWN, which is a reverse trend from U.S F/I 911 sales and I’m sure 718 4.0 GT4 sales will show growth as well. We understand it won’t dominate all the new hybrid/FI supercars out there (you have plenty of other 911’s for that). We don’t care. We accept. Stop letting bean counters get in the way of engineering projects. If you did that years ago, you wouldn’t have made it into the position you’re in today.... the one where you were awarded the highest margins in the industry which can AFFORD you the ability to have fun-“purist” side projects!
Sheesh.
02-14-2018, 01:01 AM
#1014
Rennlist Member
Yet they're cutting N/A production, and maybe manual again. This is what happens when a company looks at the bottom line too closely. Having fun and experimenting, while throwing bones to purists does wonders and pays great dividends. Porsche knows this better than anyone. They literally built their brand around it.
They simply do not want to build cars that they can't sell into the Asian markets.
This is a flawed strategy that will eventually cost them dearly when global economic conditions change, but some people (and companies) have to learn the hard way.
02-14-2018, 01:08 AM
#1015
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm curious why you think that's a flawed strategy.
02-14-2018, 02:14 AM
#1016
It's again, sad. I understand Porsche is a business. But when Ferdinand and co. were piecing together their first coupes, they didn't do it to appease shareholders for for the bottom line. Porsche has been very good at making money whilst holding onto those traditions. But at a certain point, you start to see cracks. Porsche designing everything around the Chinese market when said market is antithesis to the enthusiast markets in U.S and EU that built them, is just going "too far." Sometimes (often) it pays to not do everything for logistical or streamlined-production bottom line purposes. Porsche again knows this better than anyone.
02-14-2018, 03:51 AM
#1017
Personally, I'm looking forward to the release of the 992, it looks sensational 
- I think the 992 GT3 will be a phenomenal drive as will the base Carrera (with ~ 430HP/500Nm). However, I would like to see all models go on a weight loss program.
The only other request I would make of Porsche is to drop the current GT3 engine into the GT4 and mate it with PDK S - and if they put it on a diet, it may arguably, become the best NA mainstream production sports car ever made by Porsche.
There is no problem building a turbo engine that can rev out to 8000rpm and beyond, STIS206/207, Mclaren, Ferrari etc..(e.g. 4cyl thru 8cyl)
whether they need to is somewhat moot
The historical perspective is interesting:
The 911 turbo prototype was released in 1973 and the 2.7l coupe in 1974 (that is Turbo Number 1).
In 1974 the 911 Carrera RSR turbo took out second place in the overall class segment at Le Mans - it was also the works car and the first turbo charged car to have an intercooler.
The 935 "baby" had a 1.42l turbocharged engine, developed 380HP, weighed 730kg and won the German motor racing championship.
In 1983, a 3.3l turbo took out first place in Group B at Le Mans.
How about the IMSA Supercar Champions in 1991 and 1992 - Hurley Haywood won three of seven races taking out the championship in 1992. He drove a 3.3l Turbo.
Which cars were doing the rounds in 1993 - 911 Turbo IMSA Supercar, 911 Turbo S Le Mans GT, 968 Turbo RS.......
In fact, in 1993 a 3.6l 911 Turbo IMSA Supercar took out the championship for the third time in a row. Hans Stuck won seven out of nine races.
All of this occurred before the release of the 996 GT3.
On it goes to this day with the 2l turbocharged engine in the 919 delivering a LMP1 victory to Porsche at Le Mans.
- I think the 992 GT3 will be a phenomenal drive as will the base Carrera (with ~ 430HP/500Nm). However, I would like to see all models go on a weight loss program.The only other request I would make of Porsche is to drop the current GT3 engine into the GT4 and mate it with PDK S - and if they put it on a diet, it may arguably, become the best NA mainstream production sports car ever made by Porsche.
There is no problem building a turbo engine that can rev out to 8000rpm and beyond, STIS206/207, Mclaren, Ferrari etc..(e.g. 4cyl thru 8cyl)
whether they need to is somewhat moot
The historical perspective is interesting:
The 911 turbo prototype was released in 1973 and the 2.7l coupe in 1974 (that is Turbo Number 1).
In 1974 the 911 Carrera RSR turbo took out second place in the overall class segment at Le Mans - it was also the works car and the first turbo charged car to have an intercooler.
The 935 "baby" had a 1.42l turbocharged engine, developed 380HP, weighed 730kg and won the German motor racing championship.
In 1983, a 3.3l turbo took out first place in Group B at Le Mans.
How about the IMSA Supercar Champions in 1991 and 1992 - Hurley Haywood won three of seven races taking out the championship in 1992. He drove a 3.3l Turbo.
Which cars were doing the rounds in 1993 - 911 Turbo IMSA Supercar, 911 Turbo S Le Mans GT, 968 Turbo RS.......
In fact, in 1993 a 3.6l 911 Turbo IMSA Supercar took out the championship for the third time in a row. Hans Stuck won seven out of nine races.
All of this occurred before the release of the 996 GT3.
On it goes to this day with the 2l turbocharged engine in the 919 delivering a LMP1 victory to Porsche at Le Mans.
Last edited by RRDnA; 02-14-2018 at 06:40 AM.
02-14-2018, 08:38 AM
#1018
Personally, I'm looking forward to the release of the 992, it looks sensational - I think the 992 GT3 will be a phenomenal drive as will the base Carrera (with ~ 430HP/500Nm). However, I would like to see all models go on a weight loss program.
The only other request I would make of Porsche is to drop the current GT3 engine into the GT4 and mate it with PDK S - and if they put it on a diet, it may arguably, become the best NA mainstream production sports car ever made by Porsche.
There is no problem building a turbo engine that can rev out to 8000rpm and beyond, STIS206/207, Mclaren, Ferrari etc..(e.g. 4cyl thru 8cyl)
whether they need to is somewhat moot
The historical perspective is interesting:
The 911 turbo prototype was released in 1973 and the 2.7l coupe in 1974 (that is Turbo Number 1).
In 1974 the 911 Carrera RSR turbo took out second place in the overall class segment at Le Mans - it was also the works car and the first turbo charged car to have an intercooler.
The 935 "baby" had a 1.42l turbocharged engine, developed 380HP, weighed 730kg and won the German motor racing championship.
In 1983, a 3.3l turbo took out first place in Group B at Le Mans.
How about the IMSA Supercar Champions in 1991 and 1992 - Hurley Haywood won three of seven races taking out the championship in 1992. He drove a 3.3l Turbo.
Which cars were doing the rounds in 1993 - 911 Turbo IMSA Supercar, 911 Turbo S Le Mans GT, 968 Turbo RS.......
In fact, in 1993 a 3.6l 911 Turbo IMSA Supercar took out the championship for the third time in a row. Hans Stuck won seven out of nine races.
All of this occurred before the release of the 996 GT3.
On it goes to this day with the 2l turbocharged engine in the 919 delivering a LMP1 victory to Porsche at Le Mans.
- I think the 992 GT3 will be a phenomenal drive as will the base Carrera (with ~ 430HP/500Nm). However, I would like to see all models go on a weight loss program.The only other request I would make of Porsche is to drop the current GT3 engine into the GT4 and mate it with PDK S - and if they put it on a diet, it may arguably, become the best NA mainstream production sports car ever made by Porsche.
There is no problem building a turbo engine that can rev out to 8000rpm and beyond, STIS206/207, Mclaren, Ferrari etc..(e.g. 4cyl thru 8cyl)
whether they need to is somewhat moot
The historical perspective is interesting:
The 911 turbo prototype was released in 1973 and the 2.7l coupe in 1974 (that is Turbo Number 1).
In 1974 the 911 Carrera RSR turbo took out second place in the overall class segment at Le Mans - it was also the works car and the first turbo charged car to have an intercooler.
The 935 "baby" had a 1.42l turbocharged engine, developed 380HP, weighed 730kg and won the German motor racing championship.
In 1983, a 3.3l turbo took out first place in Group B at Le Mans.
How about the IMSA Supercar Champions in 1991 and 1992 - Hurley Haywood won three of seven races taking out the championship in 1992. He drove a 3.3l Turbo.
Which cars were doing the rounds in 1993 - 911 Turbo IMSA Supercar, 911 Turbo S Le Mans GT, 968 Turbo RS.......
In fact, in 1993 a 3.6l 911 Turbo IMSA Supercar took out the championship for the third time in a row. Hans Stuck won seven out of nine races.
All of this occurred before the release of the 996 GT3.
On it goes to this day with the 2l turbocharged engine in the 919 delivering a LMP1 victory to Porsche at Le Mans.
02-14-2018, 09:15 AM
#1019
Racing victories are cool and all, and in that regard, I say do whatever you gotta do to win, Porsche. Turbo, EV, whatever. But for drivers cars, a LOT of people who speak with their wallets would love to keep at least ONE naturally aspirated option. Even if you love the new turbo's, great and more power to you, but at the very least we can understand why diversity and variety is a beautiful thing (look at how lively the current GT3 is as it offers a contrast to other new 911's around it). It's just beyond me how short sighted Porsche can be in this regard. ICE's days are numbered anyway, so why not throw us a bone.
In terms of speed, sure, great, a 9 second 1/4 mile sounds great in that "I'll never do it but I can brag about it" way, but it's plausible that the next GT3 will still get stomped to 60 by a Tesla Minivan. In that regard, I say (hypothetically, to Porsche), look at the interest in your GT3 and GT4's. Look at the cars that are performing best on the used market. All offer visceral sensations and rarely, if ever are desired for their all-out track times. To me, cars have gotten so fast, going faster (outside of a track, as inside a track I fully support the quest for always-faster) is a fruitless chase. Which is why in this grand finale era of ICE cars, we see purist and visceral options enjoying their moments in the sun. In this last bastion of drivers-cars, make cars for plethoras of DRIVERS, as that's what the sports car market is craving (no coincidence IMO that sports cars sales started to slow down and decline once they got softer, more logistical, etc.).
Yeah, I know. "But China market, but business case, but streamlined production." :/
I mean, a friggin' M5 sedan just clocked a 2.8 second 0-60 and got into the 10's in the 1/4 mile @ almost 130 MPH! Thankfully for BMW, they actually managed to apparently give it more feeling than the bloated soulless robot F10 M5 before it. But already this M5 is priced at levels you'll find base or S Carreras at, and is faster in a straight line.
Will the 992 Carrera S get a faster acceleration time than the new M5 sedan? At this point do we really care? Or do we prefer how it speaks to us and thrills us? In a nutshell, that's all I'm saying.
P.S: Here's the M5 test review. Blisteringly fast, but I chuckled at that .98G lateral skipad figure. At anything nearing limits and on a curvy road, I'm sure that thing will be a handful and sloppiness abound.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...m5-test-review
In terms of speed, sure, great, a 9 second 1/4 mile sounds great in that "I'll never do it but I can brag about it" way, but it's plausible that the next GT3 will still get stomped to 60 by a Tesla Minivan. In that regard, I say (hypothetically, to Porsche), look at the interest in your GT3 and GT4's. Look at the cars that are performing best on the used market. All offer visceral sensations and rarely, if ever are desired for their all-out track times. To me, cars have gotten so fast, going faster (outside of a track, as inside a track I fully support the quest for always-faster) is a fruitless chase. Which is why in this grand finale era of ICE cars, we see purist and visceral options enjoying their moments in the sun. In this last bastion of drivers-cars, make cars for plethoras of DRIVERS, as that's what the sports car market is craving (no coincidence IMO that sports cars sales started to slow down and decline once they got softer, more logistical, etc.).
Yeah, I know. "But China market, but business case, but streamlined production." :/
I mean, a friggin' M5 sedan just clocked a 2.8 second 0-60 and got into the 10's in the 1/4 mile @ almost 130 MPH! Thankfully for BMW, they actually managed to apparently give it more feeling than the bloated soulless robot F10 M5 before it. But already this M5 is priced at levels you'll find base or S Carreras at, and is faster in a straight line.
Will the 992 Carrera S get a faster acceleration time than the new M5 sedan? At this point do we really care? Or do we prefer how it speaks to us and thrills us? In a nutshell, that's all I'm saying.
P.S: Here's the M5 test review. Blisteringly fast, but I chuckled at that .98G lateral skipad figure. At anything nearing limits and on a curvy road, I'm sure that thing will be a handful and sloppiness abound.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...m5-test-review
02-14-2018, 09:27 AM
#1020
Racing victories are cool and all, and in that regard, I say do whatever you gotta do to win, Porsche. Turbo, EV, whatever. But for drivers cars, a LOT of people who speak with their wallets would love to keep at least ONE naturally aspirated option. Even if you love the new turbo's, great and more power to you, but at the very least we can understand why diversity and variety is a beautiful thing (look at how lively the current GT3 is as it offers a contrast to other new 911's around it). It's just beyond me how short sighted Porsche can be in this regard. ICE's days are numbered anyway, so why not throw us a bone.
In terms of speed, sure, great, a 9 second 1/4 mile sounds great in that "I'll never do it but I can brag about it" way, but it's plausible that the next GT3 will still get stomped to 60 by a Tesla Minivan. In that regard, I say (hypothetically, to Porsche), look at the interest in your GT3 and GT4's. Look at the cars that are performing best on the used market. All offer visceral sensations and rarely, if ever are desired for their all-out track times. To me, cars have gotten so fast, going faster (outside of a track, as inside a track I fully support the quest for always-faster) is a fruitless chase. Which is why in this grand finale era of ICE cars, we see purist and visceral options enjoying their moments in the sun. In this last bastion of drivers-cars, make cars for plethoras of DRIVERS, as that's what the sports car market is craving (no coincidence IMO that sports cars sales started to slow down and decline once they got softer, more logistical, etc.).
Yeah, I know. "But China market, but business case, but streamlined production." :/
I mean, a friggin' M5 sedan just clocked a 2.8 second 0-60 and got into the 10's in the 1/4 mile @ almost 130 MPH! Thankfully for BMW, they actually managed to apparently give it more feeling than the bloated soulless robot F10 M5 before it. But already this M5 is priced at levels you'll find base or S Carreras at, and is faster in a straight line.
Will the 992 Carrera S get a faster acceleration time than the new M5 sedan? At this point do we really care? Or do we prefer how it speaks to us and thrills us? In a nutshell, that's all I'm saying.
P.S: Here's the M5 test review. Blisteringly fast, but I chuckled at that .98G lateral skipad figure. At anything nearing limits and on a curvy road, I'm sure that thing will be a handful and sloppiness abound.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...m5-test-review
In terms of speed, sure, great, a 9 second 1/4 mile sounds great in that "I'll never do it but I can brag about it" way, but it's plausible that the next GT3 will still get stomped to 60 by a Tesla Minivan. In that regard, I say (hypothetically, to Porsche), look at the interest in your GT3 and GT4's. Look at the cars that are performing best on the used market. All offer visceral sensations and rarely, if ever are desired for their all-out track times. To me, cars have gotten so fast, going faster (outside of a track, as inside a track I fully support the quest for always-faster) is a fruitless chase. Which is why in this grand finale era of ICE cars, we see purist and visceral options enjoying their moments in the sun. In this last bastion of drivers-cars, make cars for plethoras of DRIVERS, as that's what the sports car market is craving (no coincidence IMO that sports cars sales started to slow down and decline once they got softer, more logistical, etc.).
Yeah, I know. "But China market, but business case, but streamlined production." :/
I mean, a friggin' M5 sedan just clocked a 2.8 second 0-60 and got into the 10's in the 1/4 mile @ almost 130 MPH! Thankfully for BMW, they actually managed to apparently give it more feeling than the bloated soulless robot F10 M5 before it. But already this M5 is priced at levels you'll find base or S Carreras at, and is faster in a straight line.
Will the 992 Carrera S get a faster acceleration time than the new M5 sedan? At this point do we really care? Or do we prefer how it speaks to us and thrills us? In a nutshell, that's all I'm saying.
P.S: Here's the M5 test review. Blisteringly fast, but I chuckled at that .98G lateral skipad figure. At anything nearing limits and on a curvy road, I'm sure that thing will be a handful and sloppiness abound.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...m5-test-review