Approved for financing on my 992 custom build, then denied when car arrived...
03-03-2020, 10:57 AM
#91
Rennlist Member
.......
03-03-2020, 12:07 PM
#93
Three Wheelin'
No offense. Going over your numbers, yes you do make quite a few $$$$ for your age. However, bare in mind you are self-employed, but on a contractual basis. So you don't have any liquidity nor assets on your business. Your case is a classic example of someone trying to live a life beyond your time and state of financial readiness. The fact that you felt bad because it is a form of rejection and you are not ready for it. Trust me, it is a blessing in disguise.
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NigelPlays (03-03-2020)
03-03-2020, 12:15 PM
#94
Three Wheelin'
A smart self employed person would also know if you buy a car with a gross weight of 6,000 lbs or more you may be able to take a $25,000 tax deduction in the first year depending on how much you use it for business. No such luck with a pricey 911 but a Cayenne qualifies.
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rumnyc (09-01-2020)
03-03-2020, 12:19 PM
#95
Banned
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rumnyc (09-01-2020)
03-03-2020, 12:54 PM
#96
Just to chime in again, I'd advise taking all of the advice here with a grain of salt, which it sounds like you are. Keep in mind some (many?) of the people here are top 5%-10% earners and they just don't have the same life experiences of people in the 50%-90%. That's not meant as an insult, who wouldn't want to have a lot of money, but it gives them an unrealistic perspective.
Like you, OP, I work in a creative field where I'm much more successful than most. Instead of buying a house or having kids right now I'm buying a 992. The idea of what you can afford is a matter of budgeting and perspective. If you're willing to give up other things, there's no reason you can't afford a brand new 992.
The reality is some people on here want you to think a 911 is a grand investment for the rich. It's not (well, some models are but not the Carreras). The 911 is a fairly expensive car, sure, but it holds value well and provided you cover the initial fees and depreciation it's not really a negative asset. You can easily get out of it only having lost the initial payment, assuming you take care of it along the way. Is it a wise idea? No, but you only live once. It's a manageable idea as long as you thoroughly budget everything out and have some "oh ****" savings.
Waiting until your lease runs out seems like a good call. Use that time to study credit and do what you can to fix it. Dispute all of the credit pulls and negative marks. Every single one, regardless if they're accurate or not. If you have late payments bug the creditor to remove them. In your case disputes are your friend. Spending some money on a financial advisor would probably work out well for you. Most importantly, dispute everything negative on your credit report (over and over again) and save money. Unless you owe collections money and you're trying to hide, there is no real downside to disputing negative credit reports.
Like you, OP, I work in a creative field where I'm much more successful than most. Instead of buying a house or having kids right now I'm buying a 992. The idea of what you can afford is a matter of budgeting and perspective. If you're willing to give up other things, there's no reason you can't afford a brand new 992.
The reality is some people on here want you to think a 911 is a grand investment for the rich. It's not (well, some models are but not the Carreras). The 911 is a fairly expensive car, sure, but it holds value well and provided you cover the initial fees and depreciation it's not really a negative asset. You can easily get out of it only having lost the initial payment, assuming you take care of it along the way. Is it a wise idea? No, but you only live once. It's a manageable idea as long as you thoroughly budget everything out and have some "oh ****" savings.
Waiting until your lease runs out seems like a good call. Use that time to study credit and do what you can to fix it. Dispute all of the credit pulls and negative marks. Every single one, regardless if they're accurate or not. If you have late payments bug the creditor to remove them. In your case disputes are your friend. Spending some money on a financial advisor would probably work out well for you. Most importantly, dispute everything negative on your credit report (over and over again) and save money. Unless you owe collections money and you're trying to hide, there is no real downside to disputing negative credit reports.
Last edited by GratedWasabi; 03-03-2020 at 03:16 PM.
03-03-2020, 01:29 PM
#97
OP, as a guy that works a meager govt job but sadly likes the finer vehicles in life, be patient. And do not buy new. Ever. Until you get to the point where you can sign a check for the amount the vehicle cost, or burn a pile of cash for an equal amount and not care. I just turned 30, and the only thing i wish i could have told myself in my 20s would be to be patient. Let one of these fine wealthy bros buy a 992.1 C2S, put 2000 miles on it and PPF and ceramic coat, then buy it from them cash in a year for $50k less when they get their 992.1 GTS or GT3 and are offered next to nothing from the stealership on trade
I wanted a 997.2 GTS for 7 months, and then the most perfect Turbo just fell into my lap. Patience.
I wanted a 997.2 GTS for 7 months, and then the most perfect Turbo just fell into my lap. Patience.
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arashiyama (03-11-2020)
03-03-2020, 01:55 PM
#98
Three Wheelin'
My younger self would have hated the advice my older self is giving here. Done the high payments thing though (with little in reserves) vs now paying cash for everything. Having no overhead and not having to work rocks so if you're not there yet it should be on your goal list.
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NigelPlays (03-03-2020)
03-03-2020, 02:53 PM
#99
Rennlist Member
Just wanted to say that you are wrong, I have been reading every comment and taking it all in; every few hours I have been checking in on the post. You all make valid points, even the people being unkind. I have decided not to even try and get the loan; my lease ends in 10 months on my M4. I'm going to ride out the lease, and I told myself if I have 150k in the bank after taxes this upcoming January I will finance a lightly used 992 S with some lesser options at around 110-115k.
The reason I have not responded yet is because I have been super overwhelmed with over 5 pages of comments and not sure even where to start!
**Disclaimer** Please do not read this as a sob story, I just wanted to make a few points about what people have been assuming. First of all, the "red flags" of me having 40 inquiries on my credit report. I have always been a very honest person and when I ask for advice I don't sugarcoat things; everything I said is the truth. I come from a very strict Iranian family, my dad forced me to get good grades... my dad never wanted me to pursue my passions, skateboarding and the arts. When I got to UCLA I got a 13% on my first general chemistry midterm. I started posting my artwork online and slowly building a following for myself. During this time my dad was threatening to take his names off of my student loans and cussing me out every day on the phone. Learning about credit, running a business, taxes, etc. was never a conversation I had with anyone so I had to learn it by myself while my business grew and I dropped out of UCLA. When I said I didn't know what credit even was at 23, I wasn't lying! I've just now been doing research and learning a lot about it. The 40 inquiries comes from retail credit cards, actual credit cards just to see if I'd get approved for fun, random car dealerships (literally submitting random credit apps on used car websites, wanting to get an M6 after I got my M4, etc.) I would always get denied so it was just something I would do as a pastime when I'd be interested in a car. It would probably be at over 100 inquiries if they didn't disappear after two years.
While I may be young and stupid to a certain degree, I chose to give you my story with nothing left out; otherwise, it wouldn't be real advice that I'm getting and would not technically apply to my story. I love being on car forums and talking about cars. I've seen a lot of the financing threads in other forums and in this one, one thing people always say is "you'd have to be crazy to let your girlfriend co-sign for you!!" and other rude comments. I knew the response that it would get and I still said it; but I know my relationship with my girlfriend and while, sure, it may be subject to change in the future but we have been together for 5 years, before I even had a penny to my name and the M4 co-sign was never an issue. I also didn't ask for her to co-sign, she offered. I know people here love to give their opinions, and it's fine because I asked for it, but everyone's situation is different and for some, like me, I don't see why my girlfriend co-signing is a bad thing. It helps her credit and she knows that I'm good for the payments.
In my line of work, your appearance is everything. Whenever I meet with a client, they are always impressed by my M4 and make a comment about it. I'm a GRAPHIC DESIGNER, I'm supposed to be a starving artist. I'm supposed to charge $100 for a design that takes me 8 hours to do with 5 revisions. Nope. I built a name for myself, my work is incredible, and I charge what I want. I was talking to my uncle a few weeks ago, a very accomplished lawyer. He was telling me how I'm lucky that in my line of work having a nice car gets me more business, while in his, if he pulls up in a Bentley people think that he's charging too much and try to get a better rate. He said something along those lines, I forget exactly what he said. Basically, when people come to me, they're coming to a "symbol of success" in a way. I made it from nothing through art. So when they see that, they can relate with that and want the same for themselves. It's a bragging right for them to have a design made by me featured in their clothing. Sorry if it's hard for me to articulate my point here, I'm not very good with words.
Another thing. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't go out, I've never done drugs. I love my job. I love my family and I'm a home body. I don't spend money on much except clothing. I don't travel or do "vacations" because I don't need a break. The one thing I really enjoy more than anything is getting in my car and driving around. I love driving everywhere, it puts a smile on my face. I love paying 1320 a month for the worst M4 lease deal you'll ever see in your life. I've never thought about retiring because I've never actually worked, I truly love what I do. It's been a wild ride and I'm looking forward to growing more and more. Do I need to be more financially literate? Of course! Is buying any new sports car a bad idea? 100%. I'm sure I'd be just fine in a Toyota Corolla but I don't want a Toyota Corolla, I want to show people in my line of work that I can afford something that they cannot and I'm successful but that I worked hard to get it.
Sorry my mind is all over the place but I guess the biggest point to take here is I will wait to get a 992. Thank you guys so much, specifically to the people defending me in this thread. It means a lot to me. As far the rude and back handed comments, I was totally expecting it. I see it in so many threads here, don't worry I have thick skin! Even though I feel like you could have said things in a nicer way, I definitely took the advice.
Also here's my artwork if anyone is interested in seeing what I do: instagram.com/crimewave This is just my style of artwork that I like to showcase but I'm a Swiss army knife of design; this type of art is not everyone's cup of tea but hope you find something you like even a little!
The reason I have not responded yet is because I have been super overwhelmed with over 5 pages of comments and not sure even where to start!
**Disclaimer** Please do not read this as a sob story, I just wanted to make a few points about what people have been assuming. First of all, the "red flags" of me having 40 inquiries on my credit report. I have always been a very honest person and when I ask for advice I don't sugarcoat things; everything I said is the truth. I come from a very strict Iranian family, my dad forced me to get good grades... my dad never wanted me to pursue my passions, skateboarding and the arts. When I got to UCLA I got a 13% on my first general chemistry midterm. I started posting my artwork online and slowly building a following for myself. During this time my dad was threatening to take his names off of my student loans and cussing me out every day on the phone. Learning about credit, running a business, taxes, etc. was never a conversation I had with anyone so I had to learn it by myself while my business grew and I dropped out of UCLA. When I said I didn't know what credit even was at 23, I wasn't lying! I've just now been doing research and learning a lot about it. The 40 inquiries comes from retail credit cards, actual credit cards just to see if I'd get approved for fun, random car dealerships (literally submitting random credit apps on used car websites, wanting to get an M6 after I got my M4, etc.) I would always get denied so it was just something I would do as a pastime when I'd be interested in a car. It would probably be at over 100 inquiries if they didn't disappear after two years.
While I may be young and stupid to a certain degree, I chose to give you my story with nothing left out; otherwise, it wouldn't be real advice that I'm getting and would not technically apply to my story. I love being on car forums and talking about cars. I've seen a lot of the financing threads in other forums and in this one, one thing people always say is "you'd have to be crazy to let your girlfriend co-sign for you!!" and other rude comments. I knew the response that it would get and I still said it; but I know my relationship with my girlfriend and while, sure, it may be subject to change in the future but we have been together for 5 years, before I even had a penny to my name and the M4 co-sign was never an issue. I also didn't ask for her to co-sign, she offered. I know people here love to give their opinions, and it's fine because I asked for it, but everyone's situation is different and for some, like me, I don't see why my girlfriend co-signing is a bad thing. It helps her credit and she knows that I'm good for the payments.
In my line of work, your appearance is everything. Whenever I meet with a client, they are always impressed by my M4 and make a comment about it. I'm a GRAPHIC DESIGNER, I'm supposed to be a starving artist. I'm supposed to charge $100 for a design that takes me 8 hours to do with 5 revisions. Nope. I built a name for myself, my work is incredible, and I charge what I want. I was talking to my uncle a few weeks ago, a very accomplished lawyer. He was telling me how I'm lucky that in my line of work having a nice car gets me more business, while in his, if he pulls up in a Bentley people think that he's charging too much and try to get a better rate. He said something along those lines, I forget exactly what he said. Basically, when people come to me, they're coming to a "symbol of success" in a way. I made it from nothing through art. So when they see that, they can relate with that and want the same for themselves. It's a bragging right for them to have a design made by me featured in their clothing. Sorry if it's hard for me to articulate my point here, I'm not very good with words.
Another thing. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't go out, I've never done drugs. I love my job. I love my family and I'm a home body. I don't spend money on much except clothing. I don't travel or do "vacations" because I don't need a break. The one thing I really enjoy more than anything is getting in my car and driving around. I love driving everywhere, it puts a smile on my face. I love paying 1320 a month for the worst M4 lease deal you'll ever see in your life. I've never thought about retiring because I've never actually worked, I truly love what I do. It's been a wild ride and I'm looking forward to growing more and more. Do I need to be more financially literate? Of course! Is buying any new sports car a bad idea? 100%. I'm sure I'd be just fine in a Toyota Corolla but I don't want a Toyota Corolla, I want to show people in my line of work that I can afford something that they cannot and I'm successful but that I worked hard to get it.
Sorry my mind is all over the place but I guess the biggest point to take here is I will wait to get a 992. Thank you guys so much, specifically to the people defending me in this thread. It means a lot to me. As far the rude and back handed comments, I was totally expecting it. I see it in so many threads here, don't worry I have thick skin! Even though I feel like you could have said things in a nicer way, I definitely took the advice.
Also here's my artwork if anyone is interested in seeing what I do: instagram.com/crimewave This is just my style of artwork that I like to showcase but I'm a Swiss army knife of design; this type of art is not everyone's cup of tea but hope you find something you like even a little!
You can stop explaining to us. You are headed in the right direction now and I think you have the right outlook and the appropriate level of self confidence to get your first of several Porsches. Great response above and it looks like you thought it through properly. You will have your car soon, no doubt.
03-03-2020, 03:02 PM
#100
Racer
No offense. Going over your numbers, yes you do make quite a few $$$$ for your age. However, bare in mind you are self-employed, but on a contractual basis. So you don't have any liquidity nor assets on your business. Your case is a classic example of someone trying to live a life beyond your time and state of financial readiness. The fact that you felt bad because it is a form of rejection and you are not ready for it. Trust me, it is a blessing in disguise.
03-03-2020, 03:48 PM
#101
Burning Brakes
You can stop explaining to us. You are headed in the right direction now and I think you have the right outlook and the appropriate level of self confidence to get your first of several Porsches. Great response above and it looks like you thought it through properly. You will have your car soon, no doubt.
OP, I might add that there's nothing wrong with waiting a bit to build up your (financial) portfolio before jumping on a six-figure car. You've got your whole life to drive Porsches; you're young, but doing really well financially. No need to saddle yourself with an overly fat car payment at this early stage of your life. If you continue to bring in the money you've been earning for another 24 to 36 months, and live relatively responsibly until then, you'll easily stash away enough to pay cash for the car AND keep your growing nest egg intact.
As an older fellow, I can tell you this: The day 10 years ago when my wife and I paid off our last debt (house) and realized we were an all-cash economy was incredibly fulfilling. You might feel the same way -- and experience it at a much younger age than we did.
Congratulations on your burgeoning career and careful thinking about this purchase. Remember this: Nobody was ever hurt by saving too much; too often; or too long. But lots of people have ruined themselves stretching needlessly. And a new P-car, no matter what anybody says, is an automotive stretch. (A nice, CPO Camry would be the smart move, said every financial adviser ever asked. You'd think they owned stock in the company. Come to think about it...)
Consider all scenarios and options. You'll get your Porsche soon enough.
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03-04-2020, 12:18 AM
#103
Race Car
This is the philosophy I've followed, but it's not for everyone. It's very conservative.
Cars are not as big a deal as something like a house - you can sell a car (ie to a dealer) in one day. Granted you may take a bath, but it can be done. I think the critical issue - can you afford the depreciation and/or negative equity if the sh*t hits the fan?
Cars are not as big a deal as something like a house - you can sell a car (ie to a dealer) in one day. Granted you may take a bath, but it can be done. I think the critical issue - can you afford the depreciation and/or negative equity if the sh*t hits the fan?
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crimewave (03-05-2020)
03-05-2020, 03:16 AM
#105
I’m going to agree with the majority of people here and say this is a horrible financial decision (and I’m not some preaching 40+ year old).
I’m in a very similar situation as you - I’m slightly younger than you, no school or other debt, taking home similar cash per month and I have a few hundred k in vested/unvested equity in my company along a years salary in cash savings. My job is a salaried position so this is guaranteed money.
From my analysis, a comfortable amount to spend on a car at this time in my life would be no more than 85k (assuming you’re maxing out 401k/Roth IRA, have other healthy living expenses - nice place, taking intl. vacations, nightlife, clothes, eating out at nice restaurants). Any more than that, you’re probably impeding on one of these other expenses. If you’re someone who doesn’t care about any of these luxuries, perhaps you can make it work. Either that or you’re going to have to end up sacrifice saving.
Why not purchased a gently used 991 S/GTS that has reached a better point in its depreciation curve and then revisit this in 3 years after you’ve rebuilt your credit score? Sure, it’s not the latest and greatest but it’s still going to have the Porsche feeling vs the M4. I also had an M car previously (E92 M3 comp pack) before buying my current car (RR Sport Supercharged) so I understand the want to get something more exotic and why the 911 is a natural stepping stone. I don’t blame you for feeling tempted- so am I or I wouldn’t be browsing Rennlist all the time lol. But I do think there is a middle ground here.
I’m in a very similar situation as you - I’m slightly younger than you, no school or other debt, taking home similar cash per month and I have a few hundred k in vested/unvested equity in my company along a years salary in cash savings. My job is a salaried position so this is guaranteed money.
From my analysis, a comfortable amount to spend on a car at this time in my life would be no more than 85k (assuming you’re maxing out 401k/Roth IRA, have other healthy living expenses - nice place, taking intl. vacations, nightlife, clothes, eating out at nice restaurants). Any more than that, you’re probably impeding on one of these other expenses. If you’re someone who doesn’t care about any of these luxuries, perhaps you can make it work. Either that or you’re going to have to end up sacrifice saving.
Why not purchased a gently used 991 S/GTS that has reached a better point in its depreciation curve and then revisit this in 3 years after you’ve rebuilt your credit score? Sure, it’s not the latest and greatest but it’s still going to have the Porsche feeling vs the M4. I also had an M car previously (E92 M3 comp pack) before buying my current car (RR Sport Supercharged) so I understand the want to get something more exotic and why the 911 is a natural stepping stone. I don’t blame you for feeling tempted- so am I or I wouldn’t be browsing Rennlist all the time lol. But I do think there is a middle ground here.
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crimewave (03-05-2020)