speedyj

different league

VintageRacer

I think not.

A good Porsche 911 is at $120K. GM claims the new plastic C8 starts at $60K. The GM is all hyperbole.

rk-d

Yeah, the C8 is impressive for the price but I never considered it. I don't think many people are realistically cross -shopping the C8 with a 911.

ZR1 or Z06, sure (though I still have zero interest)

fxz

My .2 GT3 only with s proper 200cells exhaust shines compared to my M4 competition (M4 last version with carbon fiber transmission, has a brutal torque very funny but lacks on chassis capabilities)

The M4 comp its a 3liters twinturbo 450HP but the 992S (also 3liters 450HP ) feels way less torquey

i guess its the 992 exhaust that limit the breath capacity of its turbo engine

anyone already tested a less restrictive catalytic exhaust on the 992?

JCWLS3

Currently drive a 2016 Chevy / Holden SS 6MT. Wife has a 2019 CTT. Still love fast sedans, so I've spent the last few months test-driving every one that appealed to me, including a 2020 M5 Competition and AMG E63S. (Sadly, there aren't many left in the U.S. to choose from.)

Setting aside the ridiculous resale value of both (2016 models of either the AMG or M5 with 40,000 miles on them in good to excellent condition fetch a whopping $40K wholesale from an MSRP in the $110K range... mein Gott!), I was wholly disappointed in both of them. They were fast in a straight line and had nice interiors. The brake pedal on the BMW felt like it was stuffed in a marshmallow. The AMG had 20 miles on it and already had two annoying parcel shelf rattles. The BMW rode like a damned coal cart, even in the most comfort-oriented setting. It was so bad that I turned to the salesman and asked, "Hey man, is there something wrong here?" He looked nonplussed before answering no.

Neither car handled worth a damn. Lots of bounces and jounces in bumpy corners; steering felt disconnected and either annoyingly heavy or light. I couldn't tell what either end of either car was doing at any point in time.

Do my SUBJECTIVE impressions mean they're bad cars? Nope. But they don't hit my buttons right. Or at all. Had I fallen for one of them, I'd be buying a car with a lot more practicality for a lot less money, never mind the kick in the *** I'd take in four years selling it relative to a 911, which OBJECTIVELY smokes either of them in valuation over time. I work too hard for my money to just give it away if there's a better option.

In the end, came back around to our Porsche dealer, drove the C4S and C2S again, and said to myself, "That's it. This is the car. I'll compromise on size and practicality to experience this beautiful, connected, all-of-a-piece drive every day." It may not be the fastest or roomiest or best-looking or best-handling car out there. But the overall package is an utter gem. And I'll pay $40K more over the BMW or Merc because that's what I want.

To each his own. My point is, anybody can post subjective knocks to any damned thing he chooses. Doing so on a Porsche forum about a just-released Porsche 911 probably won't get you any helpful information, which may have been your whole point in creating this thread in the first place.

Doug H

Thoughts . . . you crazy or didn't drive a 992 S . . . must have been confused and drove an air cooled or something.

Kind of joking, but kind of not. I had 17 F80 M3 Competition Package and that cars was the single biggest piece of Euro trash I have ever owned. There was really nothing redeemable about that car. Compared to a 911, the seating position feels like driving a tractor, horrible damping, crap steering and brake feel, very sketchy at or near the limits, traction control that is either nonexistent (wheels spinning) and retards acceleration too much (usually happens when pulling into traffic and needing power), dang near comical sound and they are really just not that attractive.

The M3 may feel like you are accelerating and going fast because it is basically a riced out family sedan with a bunch of bolt ons that is super sketchy and poor quality.

992, and 991 and 997.2s for that matter, are by far better quality and more enjoyable driving experience that any F8X platform. 911s are well built, finely tuned, well balanced

Big Swole

Only read first post so far.... BUY A TURBO S and stop messing around..

if that doesn't do it for your Torque needs, maybe I can tell you about my modded Diesel days and you can go that route. My last one put down 1700 Ft. lbs. to the wheels.

992Sam

pretty sure he'd have to wait a couple of years or more before they introduce the Turbo S ... unless you are implying find an unsold 2019 out there somewhere?

Big Swole

I meant 991.2 TTS but if that's not new enough for him, yes, he'll have to wait.

DallasVP17

Great feedback. You guys are killing me, just because I wasn't wow'd by the Carrera S you that think I am a "troll", or mistakenly didn't drive a 992, too funny. I am going to take vic55's advice and go for a second test drive, and also drive a 991.2 Turbo and a GT3 (if I can find a dealer with one). Obviously, the M3 CS is not the best car, but it's not trash, it's still a fun car for the price point. Maybe I'll just get a modded diesel like Big Swole suggested LOL.

rk-d

People are being too harsh, tbh. The M3 CS is far from trash. It's a fast car and very capable. Actually, I think the CS is a sharp looking car.

I'm thinking you may have gone into the test drive with unrealistically high expectations and the C2S did not live up to what you were expecting.

The C2S is plenty fast - it definitely gives enough of that acceleration buzz, but there is so much more to the experience than that. It's all that other stuff that I'd pay attention to. The feel of the steering, the chassis, the body control - the way it moves is in another league from BMW. Not to mention it looks awesome and the fit/finish/design is a lot better.

I agree with all the criticism the M5 has gotten in this thread. I bought it as a family truckster that hauls ***. Mission accomplished. I just got bored of driving a car like that.

992Sam

I mean you pretty much walked into this criticism with your choice of the word.. underwhelming. Compound with a comparison to the M3 ... all a bit dramatic.. If you watched any of the two videos I linked before, it's clear this car is anything but UNDERWHELMING....

Doug H

No brother, it was complete trash. Maybe I just have higher standards and expectations from driving better cars, but F80 M3 was a huge disappointment.

Mine F80 M3 Competition Package sat in the garage for months at a time without being driven because I never wanted to drive it compared to my other cars. I couldn't sell it either. The F80 market is pitiful. I tried to trade it at one point, but couldn't because of stop sale due to faulty driveshaft. Stop sale lasted 6 months because there was no replacement part.

The best offer on my 2 1/2 year old $80k sticker M3 Manual Competition was $42k. I had it listed at $45k for 6 months and low $50s for about a year.

No one buys a 911 for drag race speed. Non-"Turbo" non-GT2/3s have never been about that. They are about being a complete package with amazing handling and ride, great looks, great seating position, comfortable and easy to use daily drivers, nice interiors, reliability and cheap maintenance and operating costs compared to other high-end sports cars.

I have driven new turbos purchased every 2 or 3 years since 1989 as my daily drivers, except I just dumped my 991.2 Turbo in October and went backwards to a 2012 997.2 GTS which I like better. I, however, am purchasing the 992 Turbo. I had the 997.2 GTS and the M3 at the same time. I drove the M3 maybe twice in 2+ months even after going to the 997.2 GTS. The GTS has plenty of performance for the street and is much more enjoyable to drive . . . or I would take the DB11.

Even my wife hated the M3. She drives a Macan S and Gallardo Spyder so she likes performance stuff as well.

rk-d

That straight up sucks about the stop sale. Don't blame you for hating on the M3. Unfortunately, it's typical for BMW, as well as the bad depreciation.

Doug H

Absolutely horrible customer service. This is perhaps because they are super high volume and most of their customers are cheap 3s and etc. I was trying to see if I could even get payoffs from the dealer back then and no one at my dealership would answer the phone. The receptionist kept sending me to different voice mails for service, parts, finance manager, sales manager, general sales manager. I literally jumped into my car and drove 30 minutes one way, walked into the dealership and it was DEAD. Everyone was just standing around, but no one would answer the phone. This happened to me twice.