Similar criticisms- 991 vs 997 retrospective
03-16-2019, 09:00 PM
#1
Similar criticisms- 991 vs 997 retrospective
Interesting to read some of the same criticisms of the 992 levied upon the 991. Even 'Panamerisation.'
See for yourself.
https://www.total911.com/997-vs-991/
See for yourself.
https://www.total911.com/997-vs-991/
Last edited by Argon_; 03-17-2019 at 02:27 PM.
03-17-2019, 05:14 PM
#2
Race Car
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That s why 991 was lighter faster sexier than a panzer design 997 (i like it but except the RS and some photoshop i really can t say was as sexy as a 991)
any argument for the new comer?
any argument for the new comer?
03-18-2019, 03:05 AM
#3
991.2 is the best looking 911. kicking myself for not pulling the trigger. I was hoping 992 would be even better and that was a huge mistake.
sorry i dont care for any of the previous generations. they all look ridiculously small to me.
sorry i dont care for any of the previous generations. they all look ridiculously small to me.
03-18-2019, 06:39 AM
#4
I love the 991.2 (especially the ones without the rear lightbar, the GT3 touring probably being almost perfect) but personally feel the 992 is a clear step forward in most respects, although it will be interesting to see how well the rear end will age.
In any case, in terms of footprint there really is not much between the 991 and 992. Weight, yes, but distribution is better and saying the car has grown much is not really right. A 991 GT3 for example is longer and as wide as a 992 S. Length here is of course down to fender/spoiler design. The 911 has always been seen as an everyday sportscar, so to me its about comparing it to what else is on the market today, and not what was on the market 20 years ago. And compared to its competition today it is still relatively light and compact. All cars have grown, much due to new technology, safety and emissions-regulations that in most cases cannot be disregarded. Based on that I think the 992 is very good indeed.
In any case, in terms of footprint there really is not much between the 991 and 992. Weight, yes, but distribution is better and saying the car has grown much is not really right. A 991 GT3 for example is longer and as wide as a 992 S. Length here is of course down to fender/spoiler design. The 911 has always been seen as an everyday sportscar, so to me its about comparing it to what else is on the market today, and not what was on the market 20 years ago. And compared to its competition today it is still relatively light and compact. All cars have grown, much due to new technology, safety and emissions-regulations that in most cases cannot be disregarded. Based on that I think the 992 is very good indeed.
03-18-2019, 09:32 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
- Faster round a racetrack
- Stiffer
- Better steering feel
- Better steering precision
- Less understeer
- Significant improvement in standard safety equipment
03-18-2019, 11:15 AM
#7
Instructor
I’m one of those stubborn 997 guys. Bought it the last year of production as I preferred it to the 991. It took me 2 generations to warm up to the 991... by the time I did the 992 was right around the corner. Ultimately the 992 really connected with me right away. (Let’s face it, these are somewhat emotional purchases) For me it’s a huge leap from 997 to 992 (7 years is a long time!), but I’m still not estatic about size and weight gains, but happy about the reported improvements in steering; something still great on the 997 to this day. Owning a ‘87 911, I appreciate all the references to older 911 in this generation without going full retro but actually looking very forward looking. (Long dash, headlights are flatter profile, carrera classic wheels re-interpret Fuchs, square hood lines, unified bar tail light etc.).
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03-18-2019, 12:19 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
I love the 991.2 (especially the ones without the rear lightbar, the GT3 touring probably being almost perfect) but personally feel the 992 is a clear step forward in most respects, although it will be interesting to see how well the rear end will age.
In any case, in terms of footprint there really is not much between the 991 and 992. Weight, yes, but distribution is better and saying the car has grown much is not really right. A 991 GT3 for example is longer and as wide as a 992 S. Length here is of course down to fender/spoiler design. The 911 has always been seen as an everyday sportscar, so to me its about comparing it to what else is on the market today, and not what was on the market 20 years ago. And compared to its competition today it is still relatively light and compact. All cars have grown, much due to new technology, safety and emissions-regulations that in most cases cannot be disregarded. Based on that I think the 992 is very good indeed.
In any case, in terms of footprint there really is not much between the 991 and 992. Weight, yes, but distribution is better and saying the car has grown much is not really right. A 991 GT3 for example is longer and as wide as a 992 S. Length here is of course down to fender/spoiler design. The 911 has always been seen as an everyday sportscar, so to me its about comparing it to what else is on the market today, and not what was on the market 20 years ago. And compared to its competition today it is still relatively light and compact. All cars have grown, much due to new technology, safety and emissions-regulations that in most cases cannot be disregarded. Based on that I think the 992 is very good indeed.
Not at all a fan of the 992 styling (I was at the premier in LA and got to spend a couple of hours inside and around several variations) but I agree with what you say above. And compared to the other available 2020 models, it’s a 911 and still better.
03-18-2019, 12:21 PM
#9
I don't agree that the criticisms are the same with the 997-991 vs 991-992. The 991 was revolutionary redesign and a much needed refresh for an aging chassis. Despite the somewhat disappointing GT direction the 991 went towards, I feel that every change made was both logical and necessary whereas almost every change made to the 992 seem both illogical and frivolous (change for the sake of change).
That article seems to be very clear that the 991 was addressing criticisms of 911's past in a very acceptable and reasonable manner. It also didn't help that the 991 was gorgeous when parked next to a 997. Park a 991.2 next to a 992 and I'd be hard pressed to say beyond the wide body that any of the changes dramatically improved it looks inside or out, I'd actually say it was degraded on both fronts.
The typical increases in performance along with the highly subjective increases in driving feel are likely to be proven inconsequential to the overall ownership experience over a 991, and when coupled with the many controversial decisions made both aesthetically and physically in terms of the user experience is where I think the 992 falls flat.
The 991 had 2 major flaws when compared to the 997:
1. Major reduction in the intimate raw sports car feel of previous gen 911's in trade for a more luxury GT type experience.
2. The disgraceful engine access.
While the 992 has no single major flaw when compared to the 991, it's a case of all the little things that kill where all of the issues add up to an overall flawed redesign with such minimal improvement over the 991 that many journalists simply refer to the car as more of a 991.3 than anything else.
That article seems to be very clear that the 991 was addressing criticisms of 911's past in a very acceptable and reasonable manner. It also didn't help that the 991 was gorgeous when parked next to a 997. Park a 991.2 next to a 992 and I'd be hard pressed to say beyond the wide body that any of the changes dramatically improved it looks inside or out, I'd actually say it was degraded on both fronts.
The typical increases in performance along with the highly subjective increases in driving feel are likely to be proven inconsequential to the overall ownership experience over a 991, and when coupled with the many controversial decisions made both aesthetically and physically in terms of the user experience is where I think the 992 falls flat.
The 991 had 2 major flaws when compared to the 997:
1. Major reduction in the intimate raw sports car feel of previous gen 911's in trade for a more luxury GT type experience.
2. The disgraceful engine access.
While the 992 has no single major flaw when compared to the 991, it's a case of all the little things that kill where all of the issues add up to an overall flawed redesign with such minimal improvement over the 991 that many journalists simply refer to the car as more of a 991.3 than anything else.
Last edited by limegreen; 03-18-2019 at 01:35 PM.
03-18-2019, 12:48 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
I will wait for the 993.2 - that will be the truly good one.
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03-18-2019, 01:47 PM
#12
03-18-2019, 04:49 PM
#13
I see very little criticism from the article other than the comment about converging interior designs of the 991.1, Panamera, and Cayenne. Rather, there is a lot of praise for the 991.1 design, and of course performance.
There are always going to be some folks who complain about a new model to justify not spending the money on a new car, or because they simply can't afford it. What would be more interesting here though is actual data on how many people actually PURCHASED a new 997 after the 991 was released versus how many people actually PURCHASED a new 991.2 after the 992 was released. I for one ordered a new 991.2 after the 992 was released, and I see that several others on this forum have done the same thing.
I do think the 992 looks great with the sport design front and from the side profile. But I really dislike the rear, especially from the view directly behind (not quarter angle). The wide rear light bar and brake lights are design misses. The interior is also a miss. I mean common . . . a giant, center cup holder and the nubbin? I think all these issues could be fixed in the 992.2. Also, none of these things would be a deal breaker for me, IF the 991.2 didn't exist. At the end of the day, design is all subjective and the 992 is still overall a great looking car. And at least we're not talking about a situation like the old v. new Aston Martin Vantage.
OF COURSE, the 992 is also a better performing car. But for my daily driver use, those performance gains make no difference. And I have absolutely no interest in bragging rights and comparing my car with other people. That stuff is for weak, petty, and superficial people.
I am definitely glad to see there are a number of folks here, especially in the 992 sub-forum that love the car. You deserve a thank you from all the 911 enthusiasts, because perhaps one thing we can all agree on is the desire for Porsche to continue to be successful so that the 911 continues and perhaps the next design is even better.
There are always going to be some folks who complain about a new model to justify not spending the money on a new car, or because they simply can't afford it. What would be more interesting here though is actual data on how many people actually PURCHASED a new 997 after the 991 was released versus how many people actually PURCHASED a new 991.2 after the 992 was released. I for one ordered a new 991.2 after the 992 was released, and I see that several others on this forum have done the same thing.
I do think the 992 looks great with the sport design front and from the side profile. But I really dislike the rear, especially from the view directly behind (not quarter angle). The wide rear light bar and brake lights are design misses. The interior is also a miss. I mean common . . . a giant, center cup holder and the nubbin? I think all these issues could be fixed in the 992.2. Also, none of these things would be a deal breaker for me, IF the 991.2 didn't exist. At the end of the day, design is all subjective and the 992 is still overall a great looking car. And at least we're not talking about a situation like the old v. new Aston Martin Vantage.
OF COURSE, the 992 is also a better performing car. But for my daily driver use, those performance gains make no difference. And I have absolutely no interest in bragging rights and comparing my car with other people. That stuff is for weak, petty, and superficial people.
I am definitely glad to see there are a number of folks here, especially in the 992 sub-forum that love the car. You deserve a thank you from all the 911 enthusiasts, because perhaps one thing we can all agree on is the desire for Porsche to continue to be successful so that the 911 continues and perhaps the next design is even better.
Last edited by TennisGuy; 03-19-2019 at 03:37 AM.
03-18-2019, 11:26 PM
#15