hf1

Even the best have blind-spots, and could always make improvements.

ipse dixit

hf1

Yes, Porsche is not Lotus, Mazda, or Alfa Romeo. Thanks for the big news. These examples finally proved that sports car profits can only be found in larger and fatter cars with more HP. Case closed.

ipse dixit

hf1

Must be something inherently unprofitable about 2500lb sports cars that meet regulations. Let's forget that lightness has been at the core of Porsche's ethos since the beginning and just go back to discussing whether the next 3600lb GT3 will have 3% or 6% more HP.

djcxxx

stout

^ I'd happily "settle" for two of those three, and they don't include the first number.

280-320hp @ 2500-2700lbs would be just fine. Closest thing to that ticket was the 987.2 Spyder, and it was brilliant. A small coupe @ 2500~lbs is a deeply appealing idea to me—rear-engined (or rear-motored, for that matter) with platform shared to another VAG brand if need be? I might even prefer it as an EV if it's big fun. I don't always have a chance to fully warm the oil, and have cars that go longer distances…

I doubt I am alone in this.

Counterpoint to your counterpoint: Stipulate all of the above, but eventually a question of credibility will face a sports car company that's offering four distinct four-dour model lines alongside two deeply homogenous sports car lines—and the 982 and 992 that represent little in the way of new thinking 23 years after their genesis as the 986 and 996.

The 982 and 992, in maturing in terms of sophistication and price also prompt questions about a "Cadillac problem"—and the old "entry-level Porsche is a used Porsche" doesn't work so well given where classic pricing has gone. Sure, base Macan. Great "car," but not a sports car. My forming thought is that Porsche may do well to have a "reverse halo car." Don't claim to have the answers on how to do it, but I reject the idea that the company that came up with the brilliant 986/996 strategy cannot create a new expression of "more from less," a youthful sports car that's conscious of what's going on around us and a bit of blue sky in a dreary world—one that is profitable as well, or at least underlines the origins of the crest on the volume sellers.

Agreed. First time I drove Elise on a good road, I thought "Why are we messing with 3000lb Boxsters??" Then I had to drive back to the office, and the Boxster sounded pretty good all of a sudden. It was a much better car. More livable. Most if not all the fun, without the downsides. But…my 914 weighs 2100~ pounds, and is also more hospitable than the Elise in many ways (carpeting, a real interior, etc). I am sure Porsche could build a civilized sports car at 2500~lbs if given the freedom re: the platform and a business model that made sense.

The wakeup call for me wasn't the Elise. It was the fabulously flawed 500 Abarth, which was quite "356" in a number of ways (livability/comfort/utility/size/weight/smile factor being chief among them). Began to wonder what a small, rear-engine/motor, RWD coupe with some of the same ingredients but done in the Porsche way might be like. More power, more money. Less height. Trick is the platform share…and the foresight.

Guest89

I have a rather strong understanding of the particulars of the GTE and GT3 rule books.

Andreas Preuninger has nothing to do with factory or customer motorsport, so he has no reason to be at a race.

I believe we are at an impasse.

You must first understand that Andreas Preuninger is the head of GT street cars (see also my point above), whereas Marco Ujhasi and Pascal Zurlinden have been heads of factory GT motorsport (Zurlinden succeeded Ujhasi recently).

Finally, Frank Steffen-Walliser has been the head of ALL GT efforts (GT street cars, factory motorsport, customer motorsport) for the past few years. He was promoted to head of the 911 and 718 model lines as of January 1, replacing the retiring August Achleitner.

This quote is from FSW:

And here's the link: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...-design-change

You strike me as the type of person who reads stuff on the internet but doesn't actually know any of these people in real life; for those of us who follow Porsche Motorsport very closely - and actually know the people discussed - it's abundantly evident that Frank is talking about the flat six in the RSR.

nwGTS

Good discussion and I like the point that if they did it with the 986/996 they could do it again. Playing devil's advocate here though, Porsche has in effect told us that their next long term move is to EV. Let's say they've already begun the R&D on such a car and we'll see it in 2021 or even 2020. Juxtaposing the shelf life for such a car (or at least such a car with an ICE) with the move to EV on a GANTT chart we'd see it would not be long enough so support investment. Now I could see a case for it if they developed it as ICE based and moved it to EV in the second gen. In my circle, we're fairly convinced that the next gen boxster/718/983 whatever you want to call it will be the first full EV sportscar from Porsche. I think this notion of a third, smaller sportscar that begins as ICE and matures as the first fully EV Porsche sportscar would be a great proposition.

Argon_

This would not be particularly hard. Applying the VE of the GT3RS engine to 3.0L yields ~390 HP, so a 340 HP 3.0 would be fairly trivial given the lower piston speeds. New tech like jet or microwave ignition could drive down emissions and consumption for later models. 991 3.8 cams, Ti rods, high comp pistons, oversquare design, equal length headers. THIS IS BASIC STUFF. All they have to do is dig around in the parts bin.

The 992 platform could reasonably be stripped to 2900 lbs with a N/A engine, the removal of superfluous interior pieces, and a few carbon panels.

Porsche, I dare you to try.

S.White

Thanks for the history lesson and taking us back to March of 2017. To be fair, the article you linked literally says, "despite the fact that the normally aspirated 4.0-litre engine already produces 493bhp and revs to 9000rpm, it has considerable additional development potential. Walliser says the most they’ve seen so far is 608bhp with the engine "screaming on the bench"'.

So, what do we learn from this? Well, while the article doesn't directly quote Walliser except for the "screaming on the bench" part, it says that there is considerable additional development potential as of the date on or before the article (March 2017).

I think we can agree to disagree on this one. You think (correct me here if I'm wrong) the 4L engine is maxed out in street legal trim today in the 991.2 GT3RS and isn't capable of 600bhp. I do not think the 4L is maxed out and think it's capable of 600bhp or at least close to 600bhp. Give me that much. I mean, if they fall short and only produce 590hp, can we just call it good? I don't want to have to dig this thread up to say "I told you so" in 7 years when someone tunes a 992.2 GT3RS to 600bhp... (I'm certainly not going to pay for the development personally just to hit a certain figure with the 991.2).

BTW, it seems Dundon has started the install of their prototype intake on a 991.1 GT3 and will be testing soon. So, hopefully we'll know sooner than later. I'll be sure to report what happens there.

Glad you survived Daytona. Looked like less than optimal weather. I watched until about midnight CST and then caught the first restart from red flag.... Disappointing for Risi Comp I'm sure but I'm glad WTR pulled out a convincing win.

Guest89

I could go on ... the Autocar article was written by Andrew Frankel who does not have the most sterling track record as of late when it comes to Porsche GTx cars; he claimed that the 991.1 RS would be turbocharged.

It's certainly possible that a tuner could extract 600 crank horsepower from a 4.0 liter naturally aspirated flat six, but it won't come courtesy of a set of headers, a tune, and an airbox. It would take a herculean effort and a blank check, to the point that it's not economically viable for anyone to do it.

Call up all of the GTE Am teams in WEC and ELMS and beg to buy a blown or timed out engine. Then find someone to rebuild it for you. Then find a way to fit it in the street car, fabricate a custom exhaust system, get it to talk to the ECU and the transmission and the differential...

Oh and it idles at like 2K RPM and has to be warmed up slowly using a computer program and fluid run through the block ...

And then when you have a reliability hiccup - and you most certainly will at some point - who's gonna work on it for you? Unless you live in Charlotte and Jon Bennett owes you a big favor; PMNA doesn't work on the current factory race cars.

It's just not going to happen.

Argon_

I'd rather FI and a stick than hybrid N/A. At least we'll get a few more years of the current setup.

Freddie Two Bs

I don't think Pete was thinking of a long-wheelbase, 178 inches long car.

Doug H

I somewhat daily drove an Elise for a couple of years (2006ish to 2009sih). . . split daily duties between it and a 997.1 tt cab. For most of its life, my Elise had about 180 pounds stripped out, stiff Ohlin suspension, lexan windshield and would ring your ears with a cat bypass and stage II factory exhaust. As long as it had a stereo, AC and a heater, it was good enough for me to use as a work commuter and it got like 30+ miles per gallon.

RE: Boxters

Absolutely lost count of the number of 911s I have owned, raced and daily driven since the 80s, 51 now. Although I did some spec Boxter racing many years ago mainly because they were cheap to operate and that class and spec Miata were a hoot competition wise, I have never been the least bit tempted to purchase a Boxter for street use. Most long time 911 guys I know are the same way. The 911 is evolving exactly as it needs to and remains one of the all around best sports cars in the world. Trying to back track it and make it more like a Boxter serves little purpose from a very broad marketing perspective with the Boxter/Caymen type options already out there.

At the end of the day, Porsche knows what its doing much better than most of those getting all worked up on here which I suspect speaks more about the person than the actual new car. This happens ever single time a new model comes out and even happened on here back when the 997.1 came out . . . and most of those in these 992s threads bashing or complaining about the 992 do the same when any 991.1 v. 991.2 threads arise.