Porsche Reveals Details of 911 Hybrid
12-21-2018, 09:32 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Porsche Reveals Details of 911 Hybrid
A lot of speculation in this article mixed in with some facts but either way, the 992 Hybrid is going to be very heavy. Essentially a two door Panamera with a 911 badge. Cayman is looking better all the time.
https://www.wardsauto.com/engines/po...7_CZRhgQPw5lSI
August Achleitner, the German automaker’s head of sportscar development, confirms work is progressing on a hybrid version of the powerplant that will provide the new 911 with the capability to run exclusively on electric power for limited distances. Porsche future-proofs its eighth-generation 911 with a series of engineering measures that will allow it to support both mild-hybrid and plug-in hybrid drivetrains during its planned 7-year lifecycle.
The new 992-series 911 initially will be offered with an updated version of the old model’s twin-turbocharged 3.0L horizontally opposed 6-cyl. gasoline engine, delivering 444 hp in both rear-wheel-drive Carrera S and all-wheel-drive Carrera 4S models. But August Achleitner, the German automaker’s head of sportscar development, confirms work is progressing on a hybrid version of the powerplant that will provide the new 911 with the capability to run exclusively on electric power for limited distances. “We’ve taken the experience we gained with hybrid versions of the Cayenne and Panamera, as well as the 918 Spyder, and applied it to the new 911,” he says. “In the future, this will allow us to offer it with pure-electric capability.”
Despite its famously tight mechanical packaging, Porsche has modified the 911’s rear-mounted drivetrain to allow the housing of a disc-shaped electric motor within the rear section of its optional 8-speed dual-clutch gearbox. Key among the changes enabling this is a gearset like that already used by the second-generation Panamera and Cayenne. Achleitner says the new gearset is almost 3.9 ins. (100 mm) shorter than before. The ZF-engineered 8-speed PDK also boasts a higher torque rating than its predecessor at over 590 lb.-ft. (800 Nm) in a move Achleitner says is necessary to allow the 911 Hybrid to handle the strong torque loading of the electric motor.
The 911’s all-wheel-drive system also has been reworked to apportion 50% of drive to the front wheels. A further change is the new 911’s brake booster. Similar to that used by the discontinued 918 Spyder, it forgoes the electromechanical operation of the previous 911 for a fully electric function. This allows a much more significant recuperation of energy, both under braking and on the overrun, Porsche says.
Achleitner won’t discuss specifications of the gasoline-electric-hybrid-powered 911, though he cites the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid as a performance reference. The more powerful of two hybrid Panamera models, the Turbo S E-Hybrid uses an electric motor developing 134 hp and 400 lb.-ft. (295 Nm) of torque. This is combined with the 542 hp and 568 lb.-ft. (419 Nm) of its twin-turbocharged 4.0L V-8 gasoline engine to provide an overall system output of 671 hp and 626 lb.-ft. (462 Nm) of torque.
Applying the 134 hp and 400 lb.-ft. developed by the Panamera S E -Hybrid’s electric motor to the new 911 Carrera S would provide it with a theoretical system output of 578 hp and 686 lb.-ft. (506 Nm) – some 21 hp less but a significant 133 lb.-ft. (98 Nm) of torque more than the 911 Turbo S, which boasts a claimed 0-62 mph (100 km/h) time of 2.9 seconds and 205 mph (330 km/h) top speed. However, indications are the 911 will get its own uniquely tuned electric motor. The battery used to power the electric motor in the 911 hybrid is expected to be housed in the front. Despite bringing added weight, it is expected to greatly improve the weight distribution of standard gasoline-engine versions of the new 911, which is put at 39:61 in the initial 3,340-lb. (1,516 kg) Carrera S model with the new 8-speed PDK gearbox.
Significantly, the battery used by the Panamera S E-Hybrid boasts an overall capacity of 14.1 kWh, sufficient to provide the big 5-door liftback with an electric range of up to 31 miles (50 km) on the recently superseded NEDC driving cycle test procedure. Another advantage of placing the battery pack in the front of the 911 is a reduction in the center of gravity. Nothing is official at this stage, though insiders suggest early 911 Hybrid prototype mules feature a smaller fuel tank than standard 911 models, allowing the battery to be mounted low down within the front end. In an indication of how much the hybrid system could increase the new 911’s curb weight, the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid weights 694 lbs. (315 kg) more than the Panamera Turbo, with which it shares a turbocharged 4.0L V-8 gasoline engine, at 5,093 lbs. (2,311 kg).
https://www.wardsauto.com/engines/po...7_CZRhgQPw5lSI
August Achleitner, the German automaker’s head of sportscar development, confirms work is progressing on a hybrid version of the powerplant that will provide the new 911 with the capability to run exclusively on electric power for limited distances. Porsche future-proofs its eighth-generation 911 with a series of engineering measures that will allow it to support both mild-hybrid and plug-in hybrid drivetrains during its planned 7-year lifecycle.
The new 992-series 911 initially will be offered with an updated version of the old model’s twin-turbocharged 3.0L horizontally opposed 6-cyl. gasoline engine, delivering 444 hp in both rear-wheel-drive Carrera S and all-wheel-drive Carrera 4S models. But August Achleitner, the German automaker’s head of sportscar development, confirms work is progressing on a hybrid version of the powerplant that will provide the new 911 with the capability to run exclusively on electric power for limited distances. “We’ve taken the experience we gained with hybrid versions of the Cayenne and Panamera, as well as the 918 Spyder, and applied it to the new 911,” he says. “In the future, this will allow us to offer it with pure-electric capability.”
Despite its famously tight mechanical packaging, Porsche has modified the 911’s rear-mounted drivetrain to allow the housing of a disc-shaped electric motor within the rear section of its optional 8-speed dual-clutch gearbox. Key among the changes enabling this is a gearset like that already used by the second-generation Panamera and Cayenne. Achleitner says the new gearset is almost 3.9 ins. (100 mm) shorter than before. The ZF-engineered 8-speed PDK also boasts a higher torque rating than its predecessor at over 590 lb.-ft. (800 Nm) in a move Achleitner says is necessary to allow the 911 Hybrid to handle the strong torque loading of the electric motor.
The 911’s all-wheel-drive system also has been reworked to apportion 50% of drive to the front wheels. A further change is the new 911’s brake booster. Similar to that used by the discontinued 918 Spyder, it forgoes the electromechanical operation of the previous 911 for a fully electric function. This allows a much more significant recuperation of energy, both under braking and on the overrun, Porsche says.
Achleitner won’t discuss specifications of the gasoline-electric-hybrid-powered 911, though he cites the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid as a performance reference. The more powerful of two hybrid Panamera models, the Turbo S E-Hybrid uses an electric motor developing 134 hp and 400 lb.-ft. (295 Nm) of torque. This is combined with the 542 hp and 568 lb.-ft. (419 Nm) of its twin-turbocharged 4.0L V-8 gasoline engine to provide an overall system output of 671 hp and 626 lb.-ft. (462 Nm) of torque.
Applying the 134 hp and 400 lb.-ft. developed by the Panamera S E -Hybrid’s electric motor to the new 911 Carrera S would provide it with a theoretical system output of 578 hp and 686 lb.-ft. (506 Nm) – some 21 hp less but a significant 133 lb.-ft. (98 Nm) of torque more than the 911 Turbo S, which boasts a claimed 0-62 mph (100 km/h) time of 2.9 seconds and 205 mph (330 km/h) top speed. However, indications are the 911 will get its own uniquely tuned electric motor. The battery used to power the electric motor in the 911 hybrid is expected to be housed in the front. Despite bringing added weight, it is expected to greatly improve the weight distribution of standard gasoline-engine versions of the new 911, which is put at 39:61 in the initial 3,340-lb. (1,516 kg) Carrera S model with the new 8-speed PDK gearbox.
Significantly, the battery used by the Panamera S E-Hybrid boasts an overall capacity of 14.1 kWh, sufficient to provide the big 5-door liftback with an electric range of up to 31 miles (50 km) on the recently superseded NEDC driving cycle test procedure. Another advantage of placing the battery pack in the front of the 911 is a reduction in the center of gravity. Nothing is official at this stage, though insiders suggest early 911 Hybrid prototype mules feature a smaller fuel tank than standard 911 models, allowing the battery to be mounted low down within the front end. In an indication of how much the hybrid system could increase the new 911’s curb weight, the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid weights 694 lbs. (315 kg) more than the Panamera Turbo, with which it shares a turbocharged 4.0L V-8 gasoline engine, at 5,093 lbs. (2,311 kg).
12-21-2018, 01:39 PM
#2
So about 700lbs heavier. Sounds about right: couple hundred pounds for the motor, few hundred for the battery pack, another hundred some for the power electronics and high voltage cables, etc. Another way to think of it, it'll only weigh as much as a Mustang or Camaro for a plug-in hybrid with 30+ miles pure EV range. An interesting thing is it'll drastically change the weight distribution adding a lot of weight to the front. So Porsche will have to adjust the tire/wheel sizing and suspension spring rates to compensate.
12-21-2018, 01:44 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
A lot of speculation in this article mixed in with some facts but either way, the 992 Hybrid is going to be very heavy. Essentially a two door Panamera with a 911 badge. Cayman is looking better all the time.
Despite bringing added weight, it is expected to greatly improve the weight distribution of standard gasoline-engine versions of the new 911, which is put at 39:61 in the initial 3,340-lb. (1,516 kg) Carrera S model with the new 8-speed PDK gearbox.
Significantly, the battery used by the Panamera S E-Hybrid boasts an overall capacity of 14.1 kWh, sufficient to provide the big 5-door liftback with an electric range of up to 31 miles (50 km) on the recently superseded NEDC driving cycle test procedure. Another advantage of placing the battery pack in the front of the 911 is a reduction in the center of gravity. Nothing is official at this stage, though insiders suggest early 911 Hybrid prototype mules feature a smaller fuel tank than standard 911 models, allowing the battery to be mounted low down within the front end. In an indication of how much the hybrid system could increase the new 911’s curb weight, the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid weights 694 lbs. (315 kg) more than the Panamera Turbo, with which it shares a turbocharged 4.0L V-8 gasoline engine, at 5,093 lbs. (2,311 kg).
Despite bringing added weight, it is expected to greatly improve the weight distribution of standard gasoline-engine versions of the new 911, which is put at 39:61 in the initial 3,340-lb. (1,516 kg) Carrera S model with the new 8-speed PDK gearbox.
Significantly, the battery used by the Panamera S E-Hybrid boasts an overall capacity of 14.1 kWh, sufficient to provide the big 5-door liftback with an electric range of up to 31 miles (50 km) on the recently superseded NEDC driving cycle test procedure. Another advantage of placing the battery pack in the front of the 911 is a reduction in the center of gravity. Nothing is official at this stage, though insiders suggest early 911 Hybrid prototype mules feature a smaller fuel tank than standard 911 models, allowing the battery to be mounted low down within the front end. In an indication of how much the hybrid system could increase the new 911’s curb weight, the Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid weights 694 lbs. (315 kg) more than the Panamera Turbo, with which it shares a turbocharged 4.0L V-8 gasoline engine, at 5,093 lbs. (2,311 kg).
It's not going to be a Panamera with a 911 badge. The 918 pretty much kicks everything else's *** out there. They'll use that experience to keep the 911 a 911, but better than the previous 911... as each new version seems to be.
Or were you just getting a jump on the wailing and gnashing of teeth that seems to happen with every single change to the 911?
12-21-2018, 04:26 PM
#4
Pro
They are gonna make the car heavier with hybrid...and people will complain - then make it full electric and that will be crazy light (everyone will be happy lol).
Thanks for the share, very interesting read
Thanks for the share, very interesting read
12-21-2018, 07:00 PM
#5
Race Car
Based on a short stint at the track at a Porsche event, it will have its own appeal if it is anything like the Panamera Turbo Hybrid.
I was skeptical until I floored it, then I was incredulous (at least on the straights). It doesn't hide its heft, it ignores it.
But that is what folks said about the pokey 918 too. Clearly a new thing to complain about.
I was skeptical until I floored it, then I was incredulous (at least on the straights). It doesn't hide its heft, it ignores it.
But that is what folks said about the pokey 918 too. Clearly a new thing to complain about.
12-21-2018, 07:34 PM
#6
It’s not like they’re saying there will only be hybrid 911’s available. If you don’t like hybrids then simply buy one of the other 23 911 models with just a regular old flat 6 and stop complaining.
12-21-2018, 07:37 PM
#7
I can't wait for the 911 hybrid.
Said nobody. Ever.
Said nobody. Ever.
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12-21-2018, 10:41 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sure, it'll be heavier. But no doubt faster, with better handling because of the better weight distro.
It's not going to be a Panamera with a 911 badge. The 918 pretty much kicks everything else's *** out there. They'll use that experience to keep the 911 a 911, but better than the previous 911... as each new version seems to be.
Or were you just getting a jump on the wailing and gnashing of teeth that seems to happen with every single change to the 911?
It's not going to be a Panamera with a 911 badge. The 918 pretty much kicks everything else's *** out there. They'll use that experience to keep the 911 a 911, but better than the previous 911... as each new version seems to be.
Or were you just getting a jump on the wailing and gnashing of teeth that seems to happen with every single change to the 911?
Based on a short stint at the track at a Porsche event, it will have its own appeal if it is anything like the Panamera Turbo Hybrid.
I was skeptical until I floored it, then I was incredulous (at least on the straights). It doesn't hide its heft, it ignores it.
But that is what folks said about the pokey 918 too. Clearly a new thing to complain about.
I was skeptical until I floored it, then I was incredulous (at least on the straights). It doesn't hide its heft, it ignores it.
But that is what folks said about the pokey 918 too. Clearly a new thing to complain about.
This is exactly the point. Porsche isn't making Turbos, lower displacement ICE engines, hybrids or electric cars because people want them. They are building these cars to comply with the regulatory environment. I'm not saying there is not demand for these types of cars, but the developmental direction is not being controlled by the people who buy the car but by the people who regulate the cars.
12-22-2018, 01:45 AM
#9
Yep. Every car manufacturer, Porsche included, is headed towards an electric future. But the way things are progressing, and given that Porsche is generally a more conservative company, you’ll probably still be able to buy an ICE 911 for the next 10-15 years, maybe even 20 years if there’s still a market for it. But at some point the batteries will get lighter and the electric motors will become so fast and efficient, you’ll be sacrificing a bit of weight but you’ll have a lower center of gravity, better weight distribution, and crazy acceleration like 1.9 seconds to 60. The good news is you have at least 10 years to get an ICE 911 of your dreams and just hold onto it as a classic.
12-22-2018, 11:09 AM
#10
Race Car
Not sure where I read it- or if it is true- but during the 70s gas shortage crisis, Dr Porsche was reputed to say that when the last cars are built they will be Porsches.
His analogy was buggy whips. The market for buggy whips is a tiny group of very wealthy carriage enthusiasts. Maybe he knew from experience.
His analogy was buggy whips. The market for buggy whips is a tiny group of very wealthy carriage enthusiasts. Maybe he knew from experience.
12-24-2018, 07:03 AM
#12
12-24-2018, 08:30 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
Despite the weight I bet Porsche will make a very balanced car and figure out how to dial it in. It shouldnt weigh much more than a current TT except have razor sharp throttle response and better weight balance. This is going to be a revolutionary change and as little as I am interested im the 992 ICE cars I am eagerly looking forward to what theyre gonna do with the hybrid powertrain almost as much as the gt3. The new pdk is good for 800 NM of tq which means these cars are gonna be beasts.
12-24-2018, 09:23 AM
#14
700 lbs is freaking MASSIVE. There is zero doubt it will be the on-paper performance 911 benchmark, but there is zero doubt that it will be called "soulless" and robbed of emotion thanks to the plump. There really aren't exceptions when it comes to this stuff. You can't compare it to a 918 Spyder with an N/A 4.6L V8 9K RPM screamer.
The 911 TT already gets accused of being too fundamentally perfect, a rocket with too little soul or quirky emotion. Mixing turbos and a hybrid in a flat 6, to me, is just a recipe for a robotic, sterile experience, despite what will be I'm sure game changing performance.
What Porsche SHOULD do, and this will also help them keep the weight down, is REPLACE turbos with hybrid tech, a'la the 918. Put a 4.0 Flat Six in there with hybrid boost, therefore it'll sound massively better than any turbo Porsche, will rev its eyeballs out, have zero turbo lag, have zero plumbing that will homogenize and muffle the sound wave, and blow away any turbo 911. For a 911 hybrid to truly grab people's hearts and shake the industry up whilst paving its own way, it will have to follow the 918's lead. A 4.0 hybrid flat six will be more sought after than a "911 Turbo with electric boost and a ton more weight" kit. As it is, nobody says the 911 Turbo is too slow. The only criticisms it ever gets is that it's too sophisticated, serene and effortless. The hybrid will only pile on that. It'll be a compromised bandaid between ICE and the inevitable EV future. The weight already tells us that.
N/A flat six hybrid as its own model (i.e not as a replacement to a 911 Turbo and certainly not to the pure GT3's). Do it! It would be extremely sought after.
The 911 TT already gets accused of being too fundamentally perfect, a rocket with too little soul or quirky emotion. Mixing turbos and a hybrid in a flat 6, to me, is just a recipe for a robotic, sterile experience, despite what will be I'm sure game changing performance.
What Porsche SHOULD do, and this will also help them keep the weight down, is REPLACE turbos with hybrid tech, a'la the 918. Put a 4.0 Flat Six in there with hybrid boost, therefore it'll sound massively better than any turbo Porsche, will rev its eyeballs out, have zero turbo lag, have zero plumbing that will homogenize and muffle the sound wave, and blow away any turbo 911. For a 911 hybrid to truly grab people's hearts and shake the industry up whilst paving its own way, it will have to follow the 918's lead. A 4.0 hybrid flat six will be more sought after than a "911 Turbo with electric boost and a ton more weight" kit. As it is, nobody says the 911 Turbo is too slow. The only criticisms it ever gets is that it's too sophisticated, serene and effortless. The hybrid will only pile on that. It'll be a compromised bandaid between ICE and the inevitable EV future. The weight already tells us that.
N/A flat six hybrid as its own model (i.e not as a replacement to a 911 Turbo and certainly not to the pure GT3's). Do it! It would be extremely sought after.
12-24-2018, 09:31 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
Thats probably gonna be the gt3 RS not the carrera.