First look at the 992 away from the lights…
12-24-2018, 08:19 AM
#46
Thanks for persevering and getting those photos uploaded! The raw chassis is fascinating to see...
So here's where I'm confused - I get the impression that there are substantial chassis changes in design and materials - yet we've got a an inexplicable weight gain that and get shorter gears to compensate (and I suspect a 7MT is in the cards, as well rather than a 6 speed). I'd love to imagine any engineering effort put into the chassis was also an opportunity to consider refinements that would increase rigidity and reduce weight... The engine is similar, the PDK is more compact, the added tech bits aren't hundreds of pounds (I hope), even the #nubbin should weigh less than the old PDK gear selector. Where are all the extra pounds coming from?
So here's where I'm confused - I get the impression that there are substantial chassis changes in design and materials - yet we've got a an inexplicable weight gain that and get shorter gears to compensate (and I suspect a 7MT is in the cards, as well rather than a 6 speed). I'd love to imagine any engineering effort put into the chassis was also an opportunity to consider refinements that would increase rigidity and reduce weight... The engine is similar, the PDK is more compact, the added tech bits aren't hundreds of pounds (I hope), even the #nubbin should weigh less than the old PDK gear selector. Where are all the extra pounds coming from?
12-24-2018, 09:28 AM
#47
Good question. The 992 is considerably heavier than the 991.2, and things start to look really bad when you compare it to press releases in 2012 for the 991.1. We're talking a difference of 200-300 claimed lbs. and a complete trend reversal, i.e the 991.1 was heralded proudly by Porsche for being LIGHTER than the 997, which is quite a feat considering it's larger and feels more substantial. My .1 feels quite light and tossable, but the last thing I'm thinking when throwing it around is "this could use another couple hundred pounds." It feels plenty "hefty." If anything, I keep thinking just how perfection it would be if it were 200 lbs lighter, really crossing into that "go kart" threshold.
I am willing to bet that the 992S handles with more lateral grip, quicker turn in, and less body roll than the 991S all things being equal and despite gaining a little weight. 992 will have improved chassis rigidity, better dampening and suspension characteristics, as well as improved geometry/wider track. There’s a lot more going on than simply adding some weight to the car that will compensate and likely result in overall better performance. I’m holding out judgement until I can drive one or at least see more detailed reviews of how it handles. Hope we will be pleasantly surprised!
12-24-2018, 09:57 AM
#48
I am willing to bet that the 992S handles with more lateral grip, quicker turn in, and less body roll than the 991S all things being equal and despite gaining a little weight. 992 will have improved chassis rigidity, better dampening and suspension characteristics, as well as improved geometry/wider track. There’s a lot more going on than simply adding some weight to the car that will compensate and likely result in overall better performance. I’m holding out judgement until I can drive one or at least see more detailed reviews of how it handles. Hope we will be pleasantly surprised!
12-24-2018, 11:41 AM
#49
Good question. The 992 is considerably heavier than the 991.2, and things start to look really bad when you compare it to press releases in 2012 for the 991.1. We're talking a difference of 200-300 claimed lbs. and a complete trend reversal, i.e the 991.1 was heralded proudly by Porsche for being LIGHTER than the 997, which is quite a feat considering it's larger and feels more substantial. My .1 feels quite light and tossable, but the last thing I'm thinking when throwing it around is "this could use another couple hundred pounds." It feels plenty "hefty." If anything, I keep thinking just how perfection it would be if it were 200 lbs lighter, really crossing into that "go kart" threshold.
. This transmission is also ~100 pounds heavier. The last significant change is the particulate filters which I have read a lot of different stats on but most claim about another 100 pounds.A 992 with RWS will be >400 pounds heavier than a 991.1 and 250 pounds heavier than a 991.2.
12-24-2018, 11:57 AM
#50
Rennlist Member
Great writeup and pics thank you
im at this crossroad with the newer sports cars
the newer GT cars don’t do it for me
i like to have a new one in the stable with the oil burmers
right now that is occupied by my 981 spyder which i really love
look forward to more notes from a real drive
question is. For me swap to a base 992? Keep 981? Or, wait until electric.
I think that is sort of the destination I’m most interested in for the new stuff.
and the one that will represent the most fundamental change, seems 992 is a stepping stone to that destination
oh, and need an assistant for Valencia? I work for free and pay my own way and love Spain! Hahaha. Ok not kidding!
im at this crossroad with the newer sports cars
the newer GT cars don’t do it for me
i like to have a new one in the stable with the oil burmers
right now that is occupied by my 981 spyder which i really love
look forward to more notes from a real drive
question is. For me swap to a base 992? Keep 981? Or, wait until electric.
I think that is sort of the destination I’m most interested in for the new stuff.
and the one that will represent the most fundamental change, seems 992 is a stepping stone to that destination
oh, and need an assistant for Valencia? I work for free and pay my own way and love Spain! Hahaha. Ok not kidding!
12-24-2018, 12:16 PM
#51
Agree the 992 needs the Jenny Craig treatment for 30 days, or more.
BMW lost me as a customer when the M3 was allowed to pile on the pounds. Now it appears Porsche is headed in the same direction. Sad trombone here....
BMW lost me as a customer when the M3 was allowed to pile on the pounds. Now it appears Porsche is headed in the same direction. Sad trombone here....
12-24-2018, 01:01 PM
#52
Awesome images and writeup Pete. I wouldn't have expected anything less than this . . . . Now Post the LA Show buzz its nice to see and read more in depth stories on the tech involved in the car. I cant wait to see a story on the Exterior / Interior Design story and process. THAT should be enlightening. My mind is already drifting to the other variants and wondering what else is awaiting!!
12-25-2018, 08:16 AM
#53
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Great! Thanks Pete.
Looking at at the photos of the cutaway it’s easy to see why these modern sports cars weigh so much. I mean, just look at how much c..p is shoved into every nook and cranny, even the doors have layers of metal, motors, huge speakers, etc. Compare that with cars of the 60’s when the 911 legend was created.
Looking at at the photos of the cutaway it’s easy to see why these modern sports cars weigh so much. I mean, just look at how much c..p is shoved into every nook and cranny, even the doors have layers of metal, motors, huge speakers, etc. Compare that with cars of the 60’s when the 911 legend was created.
12-25-2018, 11:11 AM
#54
Advanced
So I’ve been reading a lot of the comments on the 992 Board and am more than a little surprised. So the car gained a couple of hundred pounds from the 991.2, big freaking deal. The amount of breathless commentary about this fact is baffling. The 992 Carrera S will out accelerate and likely out handle the 991.2 Carrera S in spite of the weight gain...so what’s the big deal?
I have owned 4 911s, the last one being a 2012 Turbo Cab which I liked, but eventually traded it in on a 2018 Panamera Turbo. I thought the 991 was good looking, but not great looking (I thought the 997 was better looking than the 991) so I never bought one. That said, the 992 has really grown on me. I love the look of the exterior and I think the interior and technology enhancements are huge improvements. My only decision is ordering a C4S now or wait for the TT. Would I buy a 992 if I owned a 991.2, probably not. But I wouldn’t be harping on issues like weight gain simply to justify my decision.
I have owned 4 911s, the last one being a 2012 Turbo Cab which I liked, but eventually traded it in on a 2018 Panamera Turbo. I thought the 991 was good looking, but not great looking (I thought the 997 was better looking than the 991) so I never bought one. That said, the 992 has really grown on me. I love the look of the exterior and I think the interior and technology enhancements are huge improvements. My only decision is ordering a C4S now or wait for the TT. Would I buy a 992 if I owned a 991.2, probably not. But I wouldn’t be harping on issues like weight gain simply to justify my decision.
12-25-2018, 05:35 PM
#55
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The 3.0tt is ~120 pounds heavier due to the turbos, intercoolers and plumbing. Turbos are very heavy and intercoolers aren't light. The 8 speed transmission is more compact length wise but essentially has 2 casings and is much Widder. Think Nub. This transmission is also ~100 pounds heavier. The last significant change is the particulate filters which I have read a lot of different stats on but most claim about another 100 pounds.
A 992 with RWS will be >400 pounds heavier than a 991.1 and 250 pounds heavier than a 991.2.
. This transmission is also ~100 pounds heavier. The last significant change is the particulate filters which I have read a lot of different stats on but most claim about another 100 pounds.A 992 with RWS will be >400 pounds heavier than a 991.1 and 250 pounds heavier than a 991.2.
Going from a North American 991.2 manual to a 992 manual, there will only be a 25 kg (55 lbs) weight increase. That's an increase of approximately 1.6%. Can you notice an extra 1.6% more weight? I highly doubt it. I think getting a wide body and better crash structures is worth the 1.6% weight penalty.
12-27-2018, 12:31 AM
#56
So I’ve been reading a lot of the comments on the 992 Board and am more than a little surprised. So the car gained a couple of hundred pounds from the 991.2, big freaking deal. The amount of breathless commentary about this fact is baffling. The 992 Carrera S will out accelerate and likely out handle the 991.2 Carrera S in spite of the weight gain...so what’s the big deal?
I have owned 4 911s, the last one being a 2012 Turbo Cab which I liked, but eventually traded it in on a 2018 Panamera Turbo. I thought the 991 was good looking, but not great looking (I thought the 997 was better looking than the 991) so I never bought one. That said, the 992 has really grown on me. I love the look of the exterior and I think the interior and technology enhancements are huge improvements. My only decision is ordering a C4S now or wait for the TT. Would I buy a 992 if I owned a 991.2, probably not. But I wouldn’t be harping on issues like weight gain simply to justify my decision.
I have owned 4 911s, the last one being a 2012 Turbo Cab which I liked, but eventually traded it in on a 2018 Panamera Turbo. I thought the 991 was good looking, but not great looking (I thought the 997 was better looking than the 991) so I never bought one. That said, the 992 has really grown on me. I love the look of the exterior and I think the interior and technology enhancements are huge improvements. My only decision is ordering a C4S now or wait for the TT. Would I buy a 992 if I owned a 991.2, probably not. But I wouldn’t be harping on issues like weight gain simply to justify my decision.
12-28-2018, 12:00 PM
#57
120 lbs is a significant weight gain. Cars feel notably more sprightly to me with low gas vs full tanks. And that's a lot less than 120 lbs. Paper performance isn't the issue, weight can easily be substituted by more power or grip or tech to increase performance. It's feel and experience that weight really sucks out. Those high performance cars that feel sterilized do so largely because of what causes said weight gain. If we're talking the 911 which already gained over 100 lbs with the 991.2 facelift, and now gets another 120 lbs heavier? These are drastic gains in merely a few years.
12-28-2018, 10:22 PM
#58
You can disguise weight but you can't hide it............it always makes itself apparent
01-02-2019, 12:03 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
Thanks! And…no worries about a tough crowd. I kinda feel the same way about threads without photos—just not as interesting. Trying to decide if my iPhone pics (for my own notes) are worth posting, or if I should gather up more sources. I suppose "yes" is the right answer, and have been editing the former to make them at least reasonably decent...and will look for some options on the latter from my real camera as well as press materials later.
You oughtta go back and read some road tests of the…356B. Or the 901, for that matter.
Respect your position, but have been testing every new 911 for 20+ years—and my experience has been that judging one before I drive it is foolish. Some have underwhelmed and some have exceeded expectations—in both cases of great and low expectations.
I share many of the reservations seen here in this forum, as I am not a "digital" car guy...but I'm going to reserve judgement until driving the thing. In the meantime, I'll share some things I've learned so far.
You oughtta go back and read some road tests of the…356B. Or the 901, for that matter.
Respect your position, but have been testing every new 911 for 20+ years—and my experience has been that judging one before I drive it is foolish. Some have underwhelmed and some have exceeded expectations—in both cases of great and low expectations.
I share many of the reservations seen here in this forum, as I am not a "digital" car guy...but I'm going to reserve judgement until driving the thing. In the meantime, I'll share some things I've learned so far.
01-02-2019, 12:20 PM
#60
It's pretty easy to accurately criticize the 992 without first hand experience. The car utilizes the same platform and engine so let's be honest, how different can it possibly be? Going from 993-996 or 997-991 is a completely different story. I'll drive one when it comes out and what will it drive like? A lot like a 991.2 with minor differences I'd wager....
Secondly, real pictures aren't some sort of trickster illusion and after studying the multitude of pictures available the 992 is just plain ugly and awkward in many aspects in my opinion. It's a lousy redesign, period and I highly doubt seeing one in person is going to change that. How can I be so sure? Because every car in the last 20 years that I've loved or hated started with the pictures and while maybe certain things got better or worse in real life I have never found them dramatic enough to question my ability to make an accurate pre judgement. The ugly rear end, the homogenized styling , cheesy door handles, over loaded tech / Panamera interior etc etc none of that is going to suddenly look good or go away in the first person.
My advice to anyone on the fence and waiting to see one is to trust your eyes and gut now to avoid showroom despair later.....