992 has new/bigger turbos with more lag and 8 other facts!
12-29-2018, 01:18 AM
#91
This whole turbo vs NA argument is dead upon the realization that Porsche DID NOT want to turbocharge the 911 Carrera. This industry wide movement towards downsized turbo engines is nothing more than the result of pressure for reduced emissions and fuel consumption. It offers them the ability to essentially cheat the regulations while offering more power which is produced "on demand" to satisfy the requirements of a consumer base that is virtually absent of all logic when it comes to purchase motivation.
Turbos add significant cost and complexity to the engineering process, vehicle design and layout, increased component count and weight along with reduced reliability, increased warranty claims, added complexity regarding diagnosis and repair etc. and also carries with it several other drawbacks including lag, reduced throttle response and driving dynamics, muted exhaust note etc.
The added performance, while being a nice side effect, is basically a consolation prize for having to deal with not only the drawbacks but the realization that the maintenance and repair costs will also be significantly higher for those who do not treat their 911's as 2-3 yr. rentals.
The turbo engine movement ( scam) has unfortunately swept the industry and Porsche is now caught up in it just the same. It unfortunately is here to stay and has proven successful because the average consumer buys on nothing more than face value figures with little consideration for anything else or at least until they realize that the fuel economy numbers posted on the window sticker are almost impossible to achieve in real world driving....
Turbos add significant cost and complexity to the engineering process, vehicle design and layout, increased component count and weight along with reduced reliability, increased warranty claims, added complexity regarding diagnosis and repair etc. and also carries with it several other drawbacks including lag, reduced throttle response and driving dynamics, muted exhaust note etc.
The added performance, while being a nice side effect, is basically a consolation prize for having to deal with not only the drawbacks but the realization that the maintenance and repair costs will also be significantly higher for those who do not treat their 911's as 2-3 yr. rentals.
The turbo engine movement ( scam) has unfortunately swept the industry and Porsche is now caught up in it just the same. It unfortunately is here to stay and has proven successful because the average consumer buys on nothing more than face value figures with little consideration for anything else or at least until they realize that the fuel economy numbers posted on the window sticker are almost impossible to achieve in real world driving....
12-29-2018, 01:30 AM
#92
This whole turbo vs NA argument is dead upon the realization that Porsche DID NOT want to turbocharge the 911 Carrera. This industry wide movement towards downsized turbo engines is nothing more than the result of pressure for reduced emissions and fuel consumption. It offers them the ability to essentially cheat the regulations while offering more power which is produced "on demand" to satisfy the requirements of a consumer base that is virtually absent of all logic when it comes to purchase motivation.
Turbos add significant cost and complexity to the engineering process, vehicle design and layout, increased component count and weight along with reduced reliability, increased warranty claims, added complexity regarding diagnosis and repair etc. and also carries with it several other drawbacks including lag, reduced throttle response and driving dynamics, muted exhaust note etc.
The added performance, while being a nice side effect, is basically a consolation prize for having to deal with not only the drawbacks but the realization that the maintenance and repair costs will also be significantly higher for those who do not treat their 911's as 2-3 yr. rentals.
The turbo engine movement ( scam) has unfortunately swept the industry and Porsche is now caught up in it just the same. It unfortunately is here to stay and has proven successful because the average consumer buys on nothing more than face value figures with little consideration for anything else or at least until they realize that the fuel economy numbers posted on the window sticker are almost impossible to achieve in real world driving....
Turbos add significant cost and complexity to the engineering process, vehicle design and layout, increased component count and weight along with reduced reliability, increased warranty claims, added complexity regarding diagnosis and repair etc. and also carries with it several other drawbacks including lag, reduced throttle response and driving dynamics, muted exhaust note etc.
The added performance, while being a nice side effect, is basically a consolation prize for having to deal with not only the drawbacks but the realization that the maintenance and repair costs will also be significantly higher for those who do not treat their 911's as 2-3 yr. rentals.
The turbo engine movement ( scam) has unfortunately swept the industry and Porsche is now caught up in it just the same. It unfortunately is here to stay and has proven successful because the average consumer buys on nothing more than face value figures with little consideration for anything else or at least until they realize that the fuel economy numbers posted on the window sticker are almost impossible to achieve in real world driving....
12-29-2018, 10:07 AM
#93
This entire thread makes me laugh...
How is any of this surprising? The Carrera has been going more mainstream and has been slowing becoming more of a GT car for years now. Which makes sense given the market.
The 991 had 24 different models to choose from. 24... I don’t know of any other manufacturer that goes to the lengths that Porsche does to make sure that there is something for everyone.
The 992 just launched and you are all crying because there are only 2 models right now and neither are exactly what you are looking for. So then wait...
There will be a slew of other models to choose from in the next 1-3 years.
K-A, bro I was just as upset as you were when the Carrera went FI with the 991.2 but instead of bashing it every chance I get, I looked at the 911 lineup and realized there was a better option for me and that was the GT3. Sounds like that would be a better fit for you too.
Just the other day I was doing some canyon driving in Malibu and met up with a group of fellow GT owners and the subject of the 992 came up. The unanimous feeling from everyone was that it wasn’t even worth talking about until the 992 GT3 is revealed.
The point I’m trying to make is that there is a 911 model for everyone and this philosophy will likely continue with the 992. There is no point in getting all fussy over the two models at launch that are meant to target the mainstream buyer.
How is any of this surprising? The Carrera has been going more mainstream and has been slowing becoming more of a GT car for years now. Which makes sense given the market.
The 991 had 24 different models to choose from. 24... I don’t know of any other manufacturer that goes to the lengths that Porsche does to make sure that there is something for everyone.
The 992 just launched and you are all crying because there are only 2 models right now and neither are exactly what you are looking for. So then wait...
There will be a slew of other models to choose from in the next 1-3 years.
K-A, bro I was just as upset as you were when the Carrera went FI with the 991.2 but instead of bashing it every chance I get, I looked at the 911 lineup and realized there was a better option for me and that was the GT3. Sounds like that would be a better fit for you too.
Just the other day I was doing some canyon driving in Malibu and met up with a group of fellow GT owners and the subject of the 992 came up. The unanimous feeling from everyone was that it wasn’t even worth talking about until the 992 GT3 is revealed.
The point I’m trying to make is that there is a 911 model for everyone and this philosophy will likely continue with the 992. There is no point in getting all fussy over the two models at launch that are meant to target the mainstream buyer.
12-29-2018, 10:49 AM
#94
This entire thread makes me laugh...
How is any of this surprising? The Carrera has been going more mainstream and has been slowing becoming more of a GT car for years now. Which makes sense given the market.
The 991 had 24 different models to choose from. 24... I don’t know of any other manufacturer that goes to the lengths that Porsche does to make sure that there is something for everyone.
The 992 just launched and you are all crying because there are only 2 models right now and neither are exactly what you are looking for. So then wait...
There will be a slew of other models to choose from in the next 1-3 years.
K-A, bro I was just as upset as you were when the Carrera went FI with the 991.2 but instead of bashing it every chance I get, I looked at the 911 lineup and realized there was a better option for me and that was the GT3. Sounds like that would be a better fit for you too.
Just the other day I was doing some canyon driving in Malibu and met up with a group of fellow GT owners and the subject of the 992 came up. The unanimous feeling from everyone was that it wasn’t even worth talking about until the 992 GT3 is revealed.
The point I’m trying to make is that there is a 911 model for everyone and this philosophy will likely continue with the 992. There is no point in getting all fussy over the two models at launch that are meant to target the mainstream buyer.
How is any of this surprising? The Carrera has been going more mainstream and has been slowing becoming more of a GT car for years now. Which makes sense given the market.
The 991 had 24 different models to choose from. 24... I don’t know of any other manufacturer that goes to the lengths that Porsche does to make sure that there is something for everyone.
The 992 just launched and you are all crying because there are only 2 models right now and neither are exactly what you are looking for. So then wait...
There will be a slew of other models to choose from in the next 1-3 years.
K-A, bro I was just as upset as you were when the Carrera went FI with the 991.2 but instead of bashing it every chance I get, I looked at the 911 lineup and realized there was a better option for me and that was the GT3. Sounds like that would be a better fit for you too.
Just the other day I was doing some canyon driving in Malibu and met up with a group of fellow GT owners and the subject of the 992 came up. The unanimous feeling from everyone was that it wasn’t even worth talking about until the 992 GT3 is revealed.
The point I’m trying to make is that there is a 911 model for everyone and this philosophy will likely continue with the 992. There is no point in getting all fussy over the two models at launch that are meant to target the mainstream buyer.
12-29-2018, 10:53 AM
#95
Perhaps I misunderstood your direction here - but do GT owners have some special car knowledge - are they especially endowned in the driving department, does owning a NA car make you more of an enthusiast
or are they simply serial polishers .The reason I added the latter comment, somewhat tongue in cheek - is because I recently took part in a national motorsport survey and I can tell you that 991 GT3s involved in motorsport over the last season is ~ 10% of those delivered and of these 90% do less than 4 DE days PA. This means very few of the 991 GT3/GT3RS are involved in officially timed motorsport e.g. they are largely used as dailys or weekend specials.
Moreover its an interesting perspective given that most 911s are Carreras and non GT cars - here's my perspective, I much prefer the 991.2 GTS due to the tractable torque curve in daily driving relative to the GT3 and for real scintillating performance I purchased a 720S. There are plenty of people out there that don't get carried away by GT division cars as a performance car barometer (hence the large number on the used car market - at least in the market I'm most familiar with) or as a daily and thats why the Carrera exists and thats why people choose a Carrera and indeed often move on. In fact GT cars are a recent invention starting with the 996
(a real ballsy drivers car if you want to go quick).All this thread shows is that people choose not to adapt or try new things - thats quite normal. However, that doesn't mean other views or choices aren't valid.
. In fact the reality is Porsche has moved on.The NA Vs FI and PDK Vs manual debates are very tiresome, narrow, inflexible - shame really given that the market is never wrong and there are plenty of choices
Ultimately, there isn't a unique market solution and thats why the Porsche canvas is so broad
. Personally, from what I've seen I don't particularly care for the 992 - largely on the basis of design and the apparent homogenisation of the line up. However, it would be a mistake to decry the performance which may prove to be very real.
Last edited by groundhog; 12-29-2018 at 11:32 AM.
12-29-2018, 12:51 PM
#96
Well said and I agree. I love performance with a touch of luxury so I certainly fit your mainstream definition. Perhaps more importantly my $150k or less budget keeps me out of a GT3 car despite them being my favorite car if I could afford one. My 2017 C2S with RAS, PDK, Chrono, and Sport Exhaust has been an awesome first step into a Porsche for me personally.
Perhaps I misunderstood your direction here - but do GT owners have some special car knowledge - are they especially endowned in the driving department, does owning a NA car make you more of an enthusiast
or are they simply serial polishers .The reason I added the latter comment, somewhat tongue in cheek - is because I recently took part in a national motorsport survey and I can tell you that 991 GT3s involved in motorsport over the last season is ~ 10% of those delivered and of these 90% do less than 4 DE days PA. This means very few of the 991 GT3/GT3RS are involved in officially timed motorsport e.g. they are largely used as dailys or weekend specials.
Moreover its an interesting perspective given that most 911s are Carreras and non GT cars - here's my perspective, I much prefer the 991.2 GTS due to the tractable torque curve in daily driving relative to the GT3 and for real scintillating performance I purchased a 720S. There are plenty of people out there that don't get carried away by GT division cars as a performance car barometer (hence the large number on the used car market - at least in the market I'm most familiar with) or as a daily and thats why the Carrera exists and thats why people choose a Carrera and indeed often move on. In fact GT cars are a recent invention starting with the 996
(a real ballsy drivers car if you want to go quick).All this thread shows is that people choose not to adapt or try new things - thats quite normal. However, that doesn't mean other views or choices aren't valid.
. In fact the reality is Porsche has moved on.The NA Vs FI and PDK Vs manual debates are very tiresome, narrow, inflexible - shame really given that the market is never wrong and there are plenty of choices
Ultimately, there isn't a unique market solution and thats why the Porsche canvas is so broad
. Personally, from what I've seen I don't particularly care for the 992 - largely on the basis of design and the apparent homogenisation of the line up. However, it would be a mistake to decry the performance which may prove to be very real.Same can be said for guys that primarily purchase Turbo/S models. I recently had some seat time in a Turbo S and couldn’t believe how different it felt compared to both the Carrera and GT3. It’s really amazing how Porsche has been able to create so many different 911 models that feel completely unique.
As far as your other comments, I’m one of the 90% that drive my GT3 a few times per week and take it to the canyons on Sundays. Speaking as someone that had a Carrera S and made the switch to a GT3, I can honestly say this car really couldn’t be more different. I was actually shocked that the cars weren’t more similar and it took me roughly a week to feel comfortable driving the GT3.
Porsche is clearly going more mainstream with their top selling models which makes complete sense. LA is full of 911’s (especially Carrera’s) everywhere and you can tell that most of these owners couldn’t tell you much about the car they are driving.
But for those who are looking for that extremely raw and visceral driving experience it is still available but it just doesn’t come with a Carrera badge any longer and everyone just needs to get used to it. That’s the point I was making.
Last edited by phow; 12-29-2018 at 01:31 PM.
12-29-2018, 06:30 PM
#97
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West Vancouver and San Francisco
Posts: 4,186
Received 1,149 Likes
on
567 Posts
Was comparing 911 to 911, drops mic. Find a way a add 200 lb-ft of torque to the GT3 NA engine without going forced induction or nitrous or adding an hybrid system with electric motor. Picks up mic and drops mic again. Oh, and the GTS gets better gas mileage on the street too. Picks up mic and drops mic again.
And just to be clear on what the argument was, someone was complaining about turbo lag. I countered with I would rather have a couple tenths lag and an additional 200 lb-ft of torque.
And just to be clear on what the argument was, someone was complaining about turbo lag. I countered with I would rather have a couple tenths lag and an additional 200 lb-ft of torque.
Anyway, I'm not making the point that turbo engines are not good - they can be made virtually lag-free, and I love them, although not as much as electric motors or naturally aspirated engines. Just wanted to point out that torque fetish is not grounded in reality.
12-29-2018, 06:35 PM
#98
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: West Vancouver and San Francisco
Posts: 4,186
Received 1,149 Likes
on
567 Posts
This entire thread makes me laugh...
How is any of this surprising? The Carrera has been going more mainstream and has been slowing becoming more of a GT car for years now. Which makes sense given the market.
The 991 had 24 different models to choose from. 24... I don’t know of any other manufacturer that goes to the lengths that Porsche does to make sure that there is something for everyone.
The 992 just launched and you are all crying because there are only 2 models right now and neither are exactly what you are looking for. So then wait...
There will be a slew of other models to choose from in the next 1-3 years.
K-A, bro I was just as upset as you were when the Carrera went FI with the 991.2 but instead of bashing it every chance I get, I looked at the 911 lineup and realized there was a better option for me and that was the GT3. Sounds like that would be a better fit for you too.
Just the other day I was doing some canyon driving in Malibu and met up with a group of fellow GT owners and the subject of the 992 came up. The unanimous feeling from everyone was that it wasn’t even worth talking about until the 992 GT3 is revealed.
The point I’m trying to make is that there is a 911 model for everyone and this philosophy will likely continue with the 992. There is no point in getting all fussy over the two models at launch that are meant to target the mainstream buyer.
How is any of this surprising? The Carrera has been going more mainstream and has been slowing becoming more of a GT car for years now. Which makes sense given the market.
The 991 had 24 different models to choose from. 24... I don’t know of any other manufacturer that goes to the lengths that Porsche does to make sure that there is something for everyone.
The 992 just launched and you are all crying because there are only 2 models right now and neither are exactly what you are looking for. So then wait...
There will be a slew of other models to choose from in the next 1-3 years.
K-A, bro I was just as upset as you were when the Carrera went FI with the 991.2 but instead of bashing it every chance I get, I looked at the 911 lineup and realized there was a better option for me and that was the GT3. Sounds like that would be a better fit for you too.
Just the other day I was doing some canyon driving in Malibu and met up with a group of fellow GT owners and the subject of the 992 came up. The unanimous feeling from everyone was that it wasn’t even worth talking about until the 992 GT3 is revealed.
The point I’m trying to make is that there is a 911 model for everyone and this philosophy will likely continue with the 992. There is no point in getting all fussy over the two models at launch that are meant to target the mainstream buyer.
12-30-2018, 12:31 AM
#99
12-30-2018, 04:16 AM
#100
But all that torque goes through taller gearing to adjust for lower effective rev range, and that cancels out pretty much all of the "advantage". Torque in general is a misleading metric invented by some auto manufacturers' marketing departments to sell low-tech engines back in the day. "So what if it only makes 150HP out of freaking 6 liters - it has torque!" In reality, "torque" is like a diameter of a glass with a pint of beer - if there is still one pint in a glass (total HP), the width of a glass does not matter all that much. Put a 1/2 reduction gear on a 9000RPM peak HP engine with 300lb/ft at 3500, and you have yourself a 4500RPM peak HP engine with torque of 600lbs/ft at 1750RPM - does the latter look more impressive? It should not because it's the same engine, I swear with my hand on a physics textbook :-). But some people go "holy crap, it's 600lbs at 1750RPM, you can't argue with that" - just hilarious.
Anyway, I'm not making the point that turbo engines are not good - they can be made virtually lag-free, and I love them, although not as much as electric motors or naturally aspirated engines. Just wanted to point out that torque fetish is not grounded in reality.
Anyway, I'm not making the point that turbo engines are not good - they can be made virtually lag-free, and I love them, although not as much as electric motors or naturally aspirated engines. Just wanted to point out that torque fetish is not grounded in reality.
I’m most definitely not implying the GTS is a better car, and I’m also not implying that 0-60 is the most important performance metric. A GT3 will smoke just about everything under $200K around a track. But low end torque does help if what matters to you is speeding around town from stop light to stop light, and for the majority of Carrera owners that’s all they do. So a turbo with low end torque helps in that regard and does actually have some benefits.
Lastly post the HP/Torque charts for a base 991.2 vs. base 991.1 to illustrate the higher horsepower at lower RPMs due to turbo charging.
12-30-2018, 11:42 AM
#101
Rennlist Member
This whole turbo vs NA argument is dead upon the realization that Porsche DID NOT want to turbocharge the 911 Carrera. This industry wide movement towards downsized turbo engines is nothing more than the result of pressure for reduced emissions and fuel consumption. It offers them the ability to essentially cheat the regulations while offering more power which is produced "on demand" to satisfy the requirements of a consumer base that is virtually absent of all logic when it comes to purchase motivation.
Turbos add significant cost and complexity to the engineering process, vehicle design and layout, increased component count and weight along with reduced reliability, increased warranty claims, added complexity regarding diagnosis and repair etc. and also carries with it several other drawbacks including lag, reduced throttle response and driving dynamics, muted exhaust note etc.
The added performance, while being a nice side effect, is basically a consolation prize for having to deal with not only the drawbacks but the realization that the maintenance and repair costs will also be significantly higher for those who do not treat their 911's as 2-3 yr. rentals.
The turbo engine movement ( scam) has unfortunately swept the industry and Porsche is now caught up in it just the same. It unfortunately is here to stay and has proven successful because the average consumer buys on nothing more than face value figures with little consideration for anything else or at least until they realize that the fuel economy numbers posted on the window sticker are almost impossible to achieve in real world driving....
Turbos add significant cost and complexity to the engineering process, vehicle design and layout, increased component count and weight along with reduced reliability, increased warranty claims, added complexity regarding diagnosis and repair etc. and also carries with it several other drawbacks including lag, reduced throttle response and driving dynamics, muted exhaust note etc.
The added performance, while being a nice side effect, is basically a consolation prize for having to deal with not only the drawbacks but the realization that the maintenance and repair costs will also be significantly higher for those who do not treat their 911's as 2-3 yr. rentals.
The turbo engine movement ( scam) has unfortunately swept the industry and Porsche is now caught up in it just the same. It unfortunately is here to stay and has proven successful because the average consumer buys on nothing more than face value figures with little consideration for anything else or at least until they realize that the fuel economy numbers posted on the window sticker are almost impossible to achieve in real world driving....
12-30-2018, 02:39 PM
#102
But all that torque goes through taller gearing to adjust for lower effective rev range, and that cancels out pretty much all of the "advantage". Torque in general is a misleading metric invented by some auto manufacturers' marketing departments to sell low-tech engines back in the day. "So what if it only makes 150HP out of freaking 6 liters - it has torque!" In reality, "torque" is like a diameter of a glass with a pint of beer - if there is still one pint in a glass (total HP), the width of a glass does not matter all that much. Put a 1/2 reduction gear on a 9000RPM peak HP engine with 300lb/ft at 3500, and you have yourself a 4500RPM peak HP engine with torque of 600lbs/ft at 1750RPM - does the latter look more impressive? It should not because it's the same engine, I swear with my hand on a physics textbook :-). But some people go "holy crap, it's 600lbs at 1750RPM, you can't argue with that" - just hilarious.
Anyway, I'm not making the point that turbo engines are not good - they can be made virtually lag-free, and I love them, although not as much as electric motors or naturally aspirated engines. Just wanted to point out that torque fetish is not grounded in reality.
Anyway, I'm not making the point that turbo engines are not good - they can be made virtually lag-free, and I love them, although not as much as electric motors or naturally aspirated engines. Just wanted to point out that torque fetish is not grounded in reality.
High reving NA engines are fun and all on a racetrack (I've tracked a S2000 with 9k rpm and CBR600RR with 15k rpms), but if you want to actually go faster, boost is required for a broader powerband. And on the street where you're not always at the upper end of the tach, more mid-range is useful. When Ford came out with their GT at Le Mans and won with the twin-turbo V6, Ferrari saw the writing on the wall and came out with the twin-turbo V8 in the 488. GM is dropping a twin-turbo V8 in the new mid-engine corvette. Porsche already made the 911 RSR mid-engine to stay competitive, it would surprise me not one bit if the also went twin-turbo in another year.
12-30-2018, 03:13 PM
#103
This whole turbo vs NA argument is dead upon the realization that Porsche DID NOT want to turbocharge the 911 Carrera. This industry wide movement towards downsized turbo engines is nothing more than the result of pressure for reduced emissions and fuel consumption. It offers them the ability to essentially cheat the regulations while offering more power which is produced "on demand" to satisfy the requirements of a consumer base that is virtually absent of all logic when it comes to purchase motivation.
Turbos add significant cost and complexity to the engineering process, vehicle design and layout, increased component count and weight along with reduced reliability, increased warranty claims, added complexity regarding diagnosis and repair etc. and also carries with it several other drawbacks including lag, reduced throttle response and driving dynamics, muted exhaust note etc.
The added performance, while being a nice side effect, is basically a consolation prize for having to deal with not only the drawbacks but the realization that the maintenance and repair costs will also be significantly higher for those who do not treat their 911's as 2-3 yr. rentals.
The turbo engine movement ( scam) has unfortunately swept the industry and Porsche is now caught up in it just the same. It unfortunately is here to stay and has proven successful because the average consumer buys on nothing more than face value figures with little consideration for anything else or at least until they realize that the fuel economy numbers posted on the window sticker are almost impossible to achieve in real world driving....
Turbos add significant cost and complexity to the engineering process, vehicle design and layout, increased component count and weight along with reduced reliability, increased warranty claims, added complexity regarding diagnosis and repair etc. and also carries with it several other drawbacks including lag, reduced throttle response and driving dynamics, muted exhaust note etc.
The added performance, while being a nice side effect, is basically a consolation prize for having to deal with not only the drawbacks but the realization that the maintenance and repair costs will also be significantly higher for those who do not treat their 911's as 2-3 yr. rentals.
The turbo engine movement ( scam) has unfortunately swept the industry and Porsche is now caught up in it just the same. It unfortunately is here to stay and has proven successful because the average consumer buys on nothing more than face value figures with little consideration for anything else or at least until they realize that the fuel economy numbers posted on the window sticker are almost impossible to achieve in real world driving....
About weight and package space, you need to compare on a power basis. For example Lamoborghini Aventador has a 6.5L V12 making 700hp and 509 lb-ft of torque at 5.5k rpms. GT2RS makes 700hp with the twin-turbo flat-6. How much weight does adding 6 cylinders compare to adding a pair of turbos and intercoolers? I'm going to go out on a limb and say Porsche's twin-turbo flat-6 package doesn't weigh a whole lot more than the Lambo V12.
I will say one drawback is turbo lag though that has been reduced to the point of being insignificant on a race track. And it's about to be eliminated all together (assuming you're not one of the crazy guys running anti-lag on the street) with e-turbos in the next year or two. Muted exhaust? Not if you uncork the exhaust at which point it'll make plenty of noise. Ever hear turbo cars running external wastegate dumps?
Let's get back to the benefits of turbos, way more power and torque. As for MPG, I've had no issues matching the EPA sticker on a 2015 WRX and 2015 Chevy Cruze (1.4L turbo) on 600 mile work trips. In the WRX, I actually exceed the EPA mpg by 10%. I owned at 2005 Evo and was able to match EPA 17/24 city/hwy on that too. That's with highway speeds of 70-75mph. Just don't drive like an idiot and it's easy to match EPA. In my Evo, I could burn down to 13mpg city or take it conservative and get 17mpg. It's just how hard you accelerate a turbocharged car that determine mpg (obviously). Why do many people find it hard to match EPA ratings? Because the available torque at low engines speeds is so easily accessible that people dip into it all the time. 50% more torque at 2k rpms means 50% more power and also 50% more fuel. Because it's so easy to access that power with turbocharged engines, people end up burning more gas than they need to. But that's the beauty of turbocharged engines: the power is there if you want it but you can save fuel if you don't use it. I like this option more than a NA engine where you just don't have the option of having the power.
12-30-2018, 03:37 PM
#104
The NA vs FI discussion is like debating politics or religion. It’s pointless.
There are pro’s and con’s to both. Pick what you like and don’t worry about anyone else’s opinion.
There are pro’s and con’s to both. Pick what you like and don’t worry about anyone else’s opinion.
12-30-2018, 08:32 PM
#105
Rennlist Member
This analogy breaks down quickly in real life. Here in the US, I can attend any of a dozen different churches or none at all, or I can start a new one in my basement. And I can still vote for either Republicans or Democrats. Sure, we've always muttered under our breath that they're all the same bunch of crooks anyway, but recent events have demonstrated that this isn't in fact the case.
At the Porsche dealer I have no such option. It's turbos or nothing, at least for those of us who don't want a GT car.