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For some reason, the fairly bland rear and front end treatments reminds me of the blandness of newest Audi sedan styling except the A/S5. Wheel size is ok to me. I prefer not to have forced induction, much prefer higher revving non-turbo engines probably because I grew up with motorcycles.
I think it's pretty well established now that the Audi folks have had a lot of influence on the Porsche designs, especially noticeable beginning with the Carrera 991.
The 992 has a curb weight of 3,382 lb (https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/9...s/911-carrera/)
compared to my C2S at 3,124 lbs, so that's 258 lbs, not 110. Maybe it's 110 more than the bloated 991, but not compared to my 997. That's like carrying an extra passenger all the time, that is until you actually add the extra passenger. They're not going to make up for that difference in power either, as my car is still 40 HP higher than this newest 992 (443 HP), so I have a 250 lb and 40 HP advantage over the new car without all the silly tech and screens. Thanks, but I'll keep what I've got. Maybe they'll bring some Mercedes folks over to the brand with the new car though.
The wife and I drove a few 991.1 cabs to replace her 997.2 cab and neither of us liked the 991.1 enough to warrant spending more for it over the 997.2.
I, however, did feel that the base/S model 991.2s was worth the price difference over the 997.2 due to throttle response, torque and handling. Those qualities were less important to the wife than I so she was content with her 997.2. Performance and handling are important to me so I went 991.2 Turbo route. While the 991.1 S was only marginally better than the 997.2 S, I imagine the 992 base/S models offer even better throttle response, torque and handling than the 991.2s and are worth the price of entry over a 997.2 base/S if performance and handling are important criteria.
RE: 997 Ruf peak hp.torque and wieght
I am not sure comparing a Ruf-Kompressor to anything factory/production is fair, but its pretty dated performance wise and likely would not hang on the track with a base/S 992. Peak hp/torque and weight tell little. Area under the torque curve is key and the 991 + chassis are that much better which is borne out by he numbers:
Based on this link, a plain ole 991.1 S is quicker around the track than the 997 Ruf and the 997 Ruf apparently has a 1/4 mile above 12 seconds. Isn't the 991.1 S sub 12 and the 991.2 substantially quicker in all categories?
Believe it or not, Porsche did away with the narrow body for the 992. So all cars will be receiving said flares. Also agree- they look great.
Interesting from a marketing perspective as many paid extra dollars just for the look of the wider bodied cars irregardless of performance issues so aesthetically the base and 4S/GTS/Turbos are on at least similar footing aesthetically wise.
I’m a big fan of the 991 for the following reasons the lines are beautiful in my opinion, and the interior was more grow-up not so stale for a 100k plus car. Honestly, I didn’t care from the huge hang brake in the middle the 80’s are over hence I purchased:
2013 991 S
2015 991 GT3
2016 991 GT3 RS
2016 982 Spyder
2019 991.2 GT3 RS on the boat
Clarly, I fell in love with the brand as you can see as my understanding of the brand and car deepened so did my purchases. If the 991 didn’t wet my whistle I would have not owned a Porsche, and clearly the upgrades over the 997 was a disappoiment to many .......but it did open a gateway for a new Porsche guy like myself. The 992 will do the same for some, while I do like the overall lines on the car I’m not a big fan of it looks like the Panamera’s 2 door sibling. The exterior is more refined to attract new buyers. I just hate the shifter, and I do think that will get a rework on the refresh because it appears that’s hated by all ....they should have just went push button like Ferrari/MAC. I love he button concept in my 458 cleans up the cabin.
I love the 992 in green, and for me it would be a great DD in the 4S model, and will see what the GT version looks like? The current RS is 525 hp, not sure where they can gain more power in the flat 6. Conclusion, my inbound RS looks like a long time keeper due to the engine has been refined and it’s the last dragon that got me into a Porsche the 991 model. If I do get a 992 I will wait for version 2 because they only get better, and my garage is full with stuff I like. The 992 does look the business, and good luck on your purchases ......I built a 4S it was 152k that’s a ton for a non-GT car.
...Isn't the 991.1 S sub 12 and the 991.2 substantially quicker in all categories?
Yup.
The perceived 991 size characteristics that many dislike (myself sorta included) do bring increased dynamic advantages of longer wheel base and wider track. That combined with other developments in terms of suspension, powertrain, etc. means the performance envelope has moved on significantly. It was the same when the 996/997 replaced the 964/993 architecture. Heck, a FWD Honda Civic Type-R (6MT) laps the Nurburgring quicker than my 997.2 Carrera S (PDK) on Cup tires. Time moves on...
When comparing performance, there’s the obvious challenge of different drivers, tires in particular, track conditions, etc. But there are a few organizations that have been pretty consistent over the years with technique, drivers, etc. and have built up an interesting set of comparative laptimes, specifically:
.
Now it’s not perfect (e.g, how does a Cup tire from 2010 compare to a P-Zero in 2016?), but if you look at the broad patters in the above, you’ll see things like:
.
991.1 Carrera S is roughly between the 997.1 GT3 and 997.2 GT3, which in turn are faster than 997.1 Turbos
991.2 Carrera S is in the ballpark of 997.2 GT3 RS times, which are quicker than the 997.2 Turbos
991.2 Carrera GTS (with Christian Gebhardt) put in the same laptime as a 997.2 GT2 RS (with Horst von Saurma) at the Nurburgring... just think about that for a moment
As regard Ruf 997 models, the only one listed in the above is the big-dog 650 hp 997.1 Ruf RT12 lapped by AMuS at the Nurburgring. Its laptime (on Michellin Pilot Sport Cups) is a hairs-breath behind a 991.2 Carrera S on Pirelli P-Zero.
I can guarantee you the 992 Carrera S will move the ball further forward.
Not a fan............ Yet
Panamera Rear end....Nope!
Interior....Nope
Better performance.....Yup!
Basically, I've never had a "Dream" of owning a base 911. The "DREAMS" only contained the Turbo / Turbo S's. I realized that dream this year with my 997.2 TTS. I do like the 991.1 & .2 Turbo / S's as well, but love that my 997.2 seems to be more loved by the "purist" and thought of as the "last real 911's). I hope that means they'll hold and / or increase in value someday.
I'll have to see what the 992 Turbo / Turbo S's and maybe the GT cars look like before deciding if the 992 would appear in my "DREAMS". For now, I'll just wait to see these in person to see if they grow on me.
The perceived 991 size characteristics that many dislike (myself sorta included) do bring increased dynamic advantages of longer wheel base and wider track. That combined with other developments in terms of suspension, powertrain, etc. means the performance envelope has moved on significantly.
No doubt that that is the case, but... a car that is so capable, so stable, is less fun on public roads, except for street light sprints, some of us do not care for. For driving dynamics' appreciation the new cars are so capable, that they essentially drive themselves. From a driver's perspective, one only sees what the car can do on the track and a fast one at that.
Nothing against women of course, but look no further than the 1st 992 commercial I saw and it had a woman behind the wheel. The car continues to be produced for a much wider audience than ever before. I'll die with my 997.2 GTS parked in the garage.
Porsche aiming for a wider audience, totally agree and targeting China as a growth markets along with younger buyers - both male and female, so the "iron look" of the rear end and the Braun shaver shifter accomplishes that..............the interior looks like an updated 80s Oldsmobile interior, as the flow is choppy and the instrument cluster looks like a halfway commitment....should have gone all the way space age, but they tried to mimic some of the past heritage and failed in my view........also the base cost on a 4S went up 8K....so you are looking at a mid 150-60K car now with only a medium amount of options...........
They will sell many though to the broader market as BMW did with the Bangle butt cars when they overtook Mercedes for most luxury car sales back in early 2000's........Porsche is an expert marketer..........
OK.... here are some pics from LA Auto show today. I will admit and be honest....992 Looks way better in person. Photos don't do much justice, it's Still Huge... but much better in person. I still stand behind my initial thoughts of too much black plastic in front mouth and rear exhaust area, not a fan of rear wing cutting into rear arches, still torn on the rear light treatment and the front fender arches are almost non-existent. You won't be seeing those classic 911 torpedo arches from the drivers seat out the front window any more.. The LEGO Porsche still has better front arches BUT... it does have a nice presence and stance and the 20/21 inch wheels do look nice. It is impressive with all the gadgets, modern LED light treatments, and the interior looks much more Gran tourismo and for a mature audience, but over all... It's a nice looking P-car.... Huge, but very nice looking in a panamera-ish new era of Porsche. Oh yeah... ABSOLUTELY HIDEOUS IN YELLOW
GT2 RS Clubsport!! Amazing! GT3 RS still sounds better though
Having not seen it in person I think I like it slightly better than the 991. Still think they screwed up the best looking portion of the 911 (the rear end) starting with the 991 and the Panamera resemblance which is still there on the 992. Wish they would have stopped with just tweaking the 997 widebody rear portion of the car and making it standard on all 911's instead of totally redesigning it, making it so much less distinguished.
qikqbn, thanks for posting the additional pics and info. I now see even more things I don't like about the new design language.
The worst is the gaping black openings in the front and rear bumpers
Almost as bad, or maybe worse are the cut lines for the rear spoiler coming through the rear quarters, and if that's not bad enough, what the rear looks like when the spoiler is up. I'm trying to think of where I've seen that rear silhouette before, and it's part old CRX and part Prius, I think with the black area curved at the top.
The front hood to bumper line - if they're going to be that close together, they should have aligned for continuity across the front of the car. Having them miss by half an inch just looks bad
The complete rear is just a mess - the lights, the bumpers, the spoiler cut lines. the engine lid. In the one photo you can see that the rear silhouette line gets bulbous and humped up at the base of the rear window for the spoiler / engine lid area - that has to be an aerodynamics this as it certainly isn't an aesthetics thing.
The squared off and tall vertical planes of the fender arches. The wider front fenders are cool until you get to the edge of them, then they're a GTR. 911 fenders almost come to a point at their outer edge or have about 1/2" of vertical plane, not the 2" shown in this new design
I don't even like the way they did the black roof. At a minimum it should have aligned with A-pillars instead of being offset inward by 1", but then you'd end up with what look like body color flying buttresses, which you still do - body color roof is a better look, but this way I'm sure is less expensive since every car gets the same roof.
The rear exhaust tip placement is in exactly the wrong place. They should either be out almost at the edges or should be right down the center like the older GT3 and Boxster - this spacing of thirds just looks wrong to me, but it's not new, as it looked about like that on the 991.2 also with the sport exhaust option
I also can't believe they just about abolished the torpedo front fenders that lead to the headlights. Those have been there forever and are as defining a characteristic of a 911 design as the rear engine has been, especially from the driver's seat - shame on them. Guess the wind-tunnel won that battle too.
About the only design element I like is the creased hood, that is until you get to the front of it.
I really don't care what the 992 drives like as I honestly think this is the worst 911 design of all time, even superseding that of the slab-sided, and fried egg headlighted 996. Though the 991 was obviously larger, it was still proportional and a mostly cohesive design that stayed true to the 911 lineage - this one looks like a spaceship from the rear (and not in a good way) and with very small tweaks, like a different grill design, could just as easily been a new car from Aston or Jaguar or anyone else, but it's not a 911 in my eyes.
qikqbn, thanks for posting the additional pics and info. I now see even more things I don't like about the new design language.
The worst is the gaping black openings in the front and rear bumpers
Almost as bad, or maybe worse are the cut lines for the rear spoiler coming through the rear quarters, and if that's not bad enough, what the rear looks like when the spoiler is up. I'm trying to think of where I've seen that rear silhouette before, and it's part old CRX and part Prius, I think with the black area curved at the top.
The front hood to bumper line - if they're going to be that close together, they should have aligned for continuity across the front of the car. Having them miss by half an inch just looks bad
The complete rear is just a mess - the lights, the bumpers, the spoiler cut lines. the engine lid. In the one photo you can see that the rear silhouette line gets bulbous and humped up at the base of the rear window for the spoiler / engine lid area - that has to be an aerodynamics this as it certainly isn't an aesthetics thing.
The squared off and tall vertical planes of the fender arches. The wider front fenders are cool until you get to the edge of them, then they're a GTR. 911 fenders almost come to a point at their outer edge or have about 1/2" of vertical plane, not the 2" shown in this new design
I don't even like the way they did the black roof. At a minimum it should have aligned with A-pillars instead of being offset inward by 1", but then you'd end up with what look like body color flying buttresses, which you still do - body color roof is a better look, but this way I'm sure is less expensive since every car gets the same roof.
The rear exhaust tip placement is in exactly the wrong place. They should either be out almost at the edges or should be right down the center like the older GT3 and Boxster - this spacing of thirds just looks wrong to me, but it's not new, as it looked about like that on the 991.2 also with the sport exhaust option
I also can't believe they just about abolished the torpedo front fenders that lead to the headlights. Those have been there forever and are as defining a characteristic of a 911 design as the rear engine has been, especially from the driver's seat - shame on them. Guess the wind-tunnel won that battle too.
About the only design element I like is the creased hood, that is until you get to the front of it.
I really don't care what the 992 drives like as I honestly think this is the worst 911 design of all time, even superseding that of the slab-sided, and fried egg headlighted 996. Though the 991 was obviously larger, it was still proportional and a mostly cohesive design that stayed true to the 911 lineage - this one looks like a spaceship from the rear (and not in a good way) and with very small tweaks, like a different grill design, could just as easily been a new car from Aston or Jaguar or anyone else, but it's not a 911 in my eyes.
Oh come on Petza914 ! Don't hold back... tell us how you really feel !
Now matter what I think, a "New" 911 isn't and won't be in the cards for me pretty much Ever. I would only want a "New" Turbo or GT car, if I could ever afford one, so the base models are of no concern to me anyway.
I saw a picture of a 992 looking down onto it as it was taking a downhill turn on a track. Those flared fenders look like an RX8 from that angle. I'm having trouble unseeing it.
But I never cared for the looks of the 911. I've always seen function first and the motor in the rear was wrong to me. So I kept buying English mid engine cars that wore out quickly.
My 997.2 came about as a trial trying to improve longevity. I now (finally) understand the location of the motor. The 911 has become beautiful to my eyes. But function still matters, and with each new car it appears Porsche improves function (not getting into the sports car vs grand touring discussion). So I'm OK with the looks.
12-01-2018, 01:55 AM
BUT... it does have a nice presence and stance and the 20/21 inch wheels do look nice. It is impressive with all the gadgets, modern LED light treatments, and the interior looks much more Gran tourismo and for a mature audience, but over all... It's a nice looking P-car.... Huge, but very nice looking in a panamera-ish new era of Porsche. Oh yeah... ABSOLUTELY HIDEOUS IN YELLOW 
