Hate the 992??! OFFICIAL VENTING THREAD # Ultimate bashing allowed. Step in the ring.
01-19-2019, 06:25 PM
#1036
The 991 interior design came from the first Panamera, didn't seem like it was a huge issue then. The 964, 997 4s, 991 4s etc. all had the horizontal tail lamp design before the current Panamera even existed. If anything the Panamera stole it from the 911. Do people hate the rear because its ugly (therefore they think the Panamera is ugly)? or is it not ugly but they hate it because it looks similar to the Panamera?
01-19-2019, 11:06 PM
#1037
In defense of manufacturers, they all do the PR work of lending cars and holding junkets, if they do those right, the automotive press will remember those good times and maybe look upon their products more favorably. It's symbiotic.
However, the press has to be believable as well, they can't tell you it's aged wine when it's vinegar and retain their reputation.
One thing that has always stood out to me is the press praise of some makes that end up being ownership disasters. Some of them are very high end with pretty suspect reliability (a certain Italian make recently brought back to the US is an example, as well as British SUVs that still have electrical gremlins that date back decades). A bit of skepticism is useful when reading reviews.
However, the press has to be believable as well, they can't tell you it's aged wine when it's vinegar and retain their reputation.
One thing that has always stood out to me is the press praise of some makes that end up being ownership disasters. Some of them are very high end with pretty suspect reliability (a certain Italian make recently brought back to the US is an example, as well as British SUVs that still have electrical gremlins that date back decades). A bit of skepticism is useful when reading reviews.
01-19-2019, 11:46 PM
#1038
Race Director
Thread Starter
Imagine if they took the 991.2
* Added the lighter aluminum
* Increased the HP just like the 992 which pretty much has the same engine from all reports.
* Didn't add all the additional weight, nor prepping the car and PDK for a hybrid. Who the hell needs an 8 speed PDK? Plus only doing a wide body across whole trim range which is also for the hybrid platform. All these items are a compromise to the current model for sake of prepping it for a hybrid. I think this is one of the biggest issues with me. Why on earth isn't any reviewer talking about all this added "fat"?? Rather they make excuses why the fat lady still manages to shake it up on the dance floor.
* Didn't try and cheap out by some of the cost savings all the while increasing MSRP.
* Evolved the 991.2 stying and didn't try too hard to be relevant to the masses.
* Actually had a 992 which weighed less than the 991.2
You'd have a pretty kick *** new generation ....
But you get a 992 which most reviewers still need to reassure viewers "this is still a 911" without great enthusiasm, rather using talking points why it's still a relevant sports car. It's pretty much a Panamera coupe as this point. Right???? That's fine, but it's lost its edge in my opinion. It's become too sterilized and domesticated. That could be a winning sales formula, but many enthusiasts still want something a little more raw and engaging.
Worrying about MPG, limiting RPM in city driving, and making sure we have a quiet enough cabin, exhaust, and road noise is taking this car down a different road.
The 911 is losing its independence and morphed into a inbred of the other Porsche models rather than a distant cousin.
"Let them make sedans and SUV's, as long as it gives them cash to make sports cars" .... The classic quote. Well now, the sports cars are being abducted by them.
Anyway, it is what it is at this point. Time to move on.
* Added the lighter aluminum
* Increased the HP just like the 992 which pretty much has the same engine from all reports.
* Didn't add all the additional weight, nor prepping the car and PDK for a hybrid. Who the hell needs an 8 speed PDK? Plus only doing a wide body across whole trim range which is also for the hybrid platform. All these items are a compromise to the current model for sake of prepping it for a hybrid. I think this is one of the biggest issues with me. Why on earth isn't any reviewer talking about all this added "fat"?? Rather they make excuses why the fat lady still manages to shake it up on the dance floor.
* Didn't try and cheap out by some of the cost savings all the while increasing MSRP.
* Evolved the 991.2 stying and didn't try too hard to be relevant to the masses.
* Actually had a 992 which weighed less than the 991.2
You'd have a pretty kick *** new generation ....
But you get a 992 which most reviewers still need to reassure viewers "this is still a 911" without great enthusiasm, rather using talking points why it's still a relevant sports car. It's pretty much a Panamera coupe as this point. Right???? That's fine, but it's lost its edge in my opinion. It's become too sterilized and domesticated. That could be a winning sales formula, but many enthusiasts still want something a little more raw and engaging.
Worrying about MPG, limiting RPM in city driving, and making sure we have a quiet enough cabin, exhaust, and road noise is taking this car down a different road.
The 911 is losing its independence and morphed into a inbred of the other Porsche models rather than a distant cousin.
"Let them make sedans and SUV's, as long as it gives them cash to make sports cars" .... The classic quote. Well now, the sports cars are being abducted by them.
Anyway, it is what it is at this point. Time to move on.
Last edited by STG; 01-20-2019 at 09:02 AM.
01-20-2019, 12:20 AM
#1039
Three Wheelin'
Imagine if they took the 991.2
Added the lighter aluminum
Increased the HP just like the 992 which pretty much has the same engine from all reports.
Didn't add all the additional weight and prepping the car and PDK for a hybrid. Plus only doing a wide body across whole trim range which is also for hybrid platform. All these items are a compromise to the current model for sake of prepping it for a hybrid. I think this is one of the biggest issues with me.
Didn't try and cheap out by some of the cost savings all the while increasing MSRP.
Evolved the 992.2 stying and didn't try too hard to be relevant to the masses.
Actually had a 992 which weighed less than the 991.2
You'd have a pretty kick *** new generation ....
But you get a 992 which most reviewers still need to reassure viewers "this is still a 911" without great enthusiasm, rather using talking points why it's still a relevant sports car. It's pretty much a Panamera coupe as this point. Right???? That's fine, but it's lost its edge in my opinion. It's become too sterilized and domesticated. That could be a winning sales formula, but many enthusiasts still want something a little more raw and engaging.
Worrying about MPG, limiting RPM in city driving, and making sure we have a quiet enough cabin, exhaust, and road noise is taking this car down a different road.
Anyway, it is what it is at this point. Time to move on.
Added the lighter aluminum
Increased the HP just like the 992 which pretty much has the same engine from all reports.
Didn't add all the additional weight and prepping the car and PDK for a hybrid. Plus only doing a wide body across whole trim range which is also for hybrid platform. All these items are a compromise to the current model for sake of prepping it for a hybrid. I think this is one of the biggest issues with me.
Didn't try and cheap out by some of the cost savings all the while increasing MSRP.
Evolved the 992.2 stying and didn't try too hard to be relevant to the masses.
Actually had a 992 which weighed less than the 991.2
You'd have a pretty kick *** new generation ....
But you get a 992 which most reviewers still need to reassure viewers "this is still a 911" without great enthusiasm, rather using talking points why it's still a relevant sports car. It's pretty much a Panamera coupe as this point. Right???? That's fine, but it's lost its edge in my opinion. It's become too sterilized and domesticated. That could be a winning sales formula, but many enthusiasts still want something a little more raw and engaging.
Worrying about MPG, limiting RPM in city driving, and making sure we have a quiet enough cabin, exhaust, and road noise is taking this car down a different road.
Anyway, it is what it is at this point. Time to move on.
01-20-2019, 04:41 AM
#1040
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
Posts: 4,442
Received 421 Likes
on
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del
Last edited by fxz; 01-20-2019 at 08:16 AM.
01-20-2019, 09:30 AM
#1041
Imagine if they took the 991.2
* Added the lighter aluminum
* Increased the HP just like the 992 which pretty much has the same engine from all reports.
* Didn't add all the additional weight, nor prepping the car and PDK for a hybrid. Who the hell needs an 8 speed PDK? Plus only doing a wide body across whole trim range which is also for the hybrid platform. All these items are a compromise to the current model for sake of prepping it for a hybrid. I think this is one of the biggest issues with me. Why on earth isn't any reviewer talking about all this added "fat"?? Rather they make excuses why the fat lady still manages to shake it up on the dance floor.
* Didn't try and cheap out by some of the cost savings all the while increasing MSRP.
* Evolved the 991.2 stying and didn't try too hard to be relevant to the masses.
* Actually had a 992 which weighed less than the 991.2
You'd have a pretty kick *** new generation ....
But you get a 992 which most reviewers still need to reassure viewers "this is still a 911" without great enthusiasm, rather using talking points why it's still a relevant sports car. It's pretty much a Panamera coupe as this point. Right???? That's fine, but it's lost its edge in my opinion. It's become too sterilized and domesticated. That could be a winning sales formula, but many enthusiasts still want something a little more raw and engaging.
Worrying about MPG, limiting RPM in city driving, and making sure we have a quiet enough cabin, exhaust, and road noise is taking this car down a different road.
The 911 is losing its independence and morphed into a inbred of the other Porsche models rather than a distant cousin.
"Let them make sedans and SUV's, as long as it gives them cash to make sports cars" .... The classic quote. Well now, the sports cars are being abducted by them.
Anyway, it is what it is at this point. Time to move on.
* Added the lighter aluminum
* Increased the HP just like the 992 which pretty much has the same engine from all reports.
* Didn't add all the additional weight, nor prepping the car and PDK for a hybrid. Who the hell needs an 8 speed PDK? Plus only doing a wide body across whole trim range which is also for the hybrid platform. All these items are a compromise to the current model for sake of prepping it for a hybrid. I think this is one of the biggest issues with me. Why on earth isn't any reviewer talking about all this added "fat"?? Rather they make excuses why the fat lady still manages to shake it up on the dance floor.
* Didn't try and cheap out by some of the cost savings all the while increasing MSRP.
* Evolved the 991.2 stying and didn't try too hard to be relevant to the masses.
* Actually had a 992 which weighed less than the 991.2
You'd have a pretty kick *** new generation ....
But you get a 992 which most reviewers still need to reassure viewers "this is still a 911" without great enthusiasm, rather using talking points why it's still a relevant sports car. It's pretty much a Panamera coupe as this point. Right???? That's fine, but it's lost its edge in my opinion. It's become too sterilized and domesticated. That could be a winning sales formula, but many enthusiasts still want something a little more raw and engaging.
Worrying about MPG, limiting RPM in city driving, and making sure we have a quiet enough cabin, exhaust, and road noise is taking this car down a different road.
The 911 is losing its independence and morphed into a inbred of the other Porsche models rather than a distant cousin.
"Let them make sedans and SUV's, as long as it gives them cash to make sports cars" .... The classic quote. Well now, the sports cars are being abducted by them.
Anyway, it is what it is at this point. Time to move on.
-ditch the particulate filter. There's no law for this YET in the US and it adds weight.
-Shorter gearing 1-4
-Hybrid - there is a company that will convert a 991.1 to a hybrid for 75K. Pricing aside - if they can figure it out with the given space, then Porsche's R&D should be able to come up with something more clever on the 992.
-Manual - please just put a 6 speed in it.
-Weight - use the 991.1 as the target lightness to beat. This would be impressive with all the turbo hardware
-Eliminate extra motors... like the ones in the door handles. (weight and simplicity)
-Same size wheels.... I'm not convinced the 21" rears are necessary.
01-20-2019, 03:30 PM
#1042
Rennlist Member
Harris review:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjrarc...ature=youtu.be
Seems like these reviews just try and make it appear this car is still a 911 and so much comparison that it's just like a 991. ___
Harris starts out with "It's bigger, better, and uses less fuel". Is he talking about a Cayenne??
As if he's read all the Rennlist criticisms and tries to counteract them. He does throw a few snipes in there with the cup holder and plastic rear engine cover. Overall, think he was happy just to wrap up the review.
"It's still a 911" that's about what you get out of it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjrarc...ature=youtu.be
Seems like these reviews just try and make it appear this car is still a 911 and so much comparison that it's just like a 991. ___
Harris starts out with "It's bigger, better, and uses less fuel". Is he talking about a Cayenne??
As if he's read all the Rennlist criticisms and tries to counteract them. He does throw a few snipes in there with the cup holder and plastic rear engine cover. Overall, think he was happy just to wrap up the review.
"It's still a 911" that's about what you get out of it.
It was a funny when the key fob couldn't operate the folding door handles. They'd better work out the glitches in the folding door handles soon or we'll start hearing even more arguments about how more complexity=more things to fail... we lost that argument years ago when we accepted starter motors over hand cranks and aircon and power windows and water cooling and PASM and ... well whatever - each new model always seems to have more bits crammed in. Just make sure they work somewhat reliably.
CH said the nubbin wasn't terrible - but he has (oops had) a GT3T so he doesn't DD a PDK. He didn't mention the bacon strips but talked about the 3D sculpting of the "round ***". He didn't get excited about anything, actually, but CH only seems to be happy when he's sliding a car sideways and wasting good rubber. He does have a couple moments where he emits a little excitement... cue up that video at 10:03 and 10:37.
01-20-2019, 11:09 PM
#1043
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
Posts: 4,442
Received 421 Likes
on
249 Posts
(Full disclosure: Porsche wanted us to drive the 2020 911 Carrera S so badly that it flew me to Valencia, Spain, put me up in a hotel, fed me a lot of food and rented out the Circuit Ricardo Tormo for a whole day.)
I am wondering how a grown person without mental disease can take seriously those "reviews" ?
I am wondering how a grown person without mental disease can take seriously those "reviews" ?
Last edited by fxz; 01-20-2019 at 11:43 PM.
01-20-2019, 11:48 PM
#1044
Race Director
Thread Starter
It's pay to play propaganda.
Play nice or don't get invited to the next free European trip.
Spain this time. For the 991.2 was the Canary Islands. Nice gig
Play nice or don't get invited to the next free European trip.
Spain this time. For the 991.2 was the Canary Islands. Nice gig
01-21-2019, 01:55 AM
#1045
Best to drive it for yourself, our inputs, driving abilities and sensory perceptions make for a unique mix of thoughts and feelings that no one else can substitute.
I'll focus on driving what i have a lot more, and getting better at it. Thank you Porsche for saving me some hard-earned money!
01-21-2019, 09:30 AM
#1046
Harris review:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjrarc...ature=youtu.be
Seems like these reviews just try and make it appear this car is still a 911 and so much comparison that it's just like a 991. ___
Harris starts out with "It's bigger, better, and uses less fuel". Is he talking about a Cayenne??
As if he's read all the Rennlist criticisms and tries to counteract them. He does throw a few snipes in there with the cup holder and plastic rear engine cover. Overall, think he was happy just to wrap up the review.
"It's still a 911" that's about what you get out of it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjrarc...ature=youtu.be
Seems like these reviews just try and make it appear this car is still a 911 and so much comparison that it's just like a 991. ___
Harris starts out with "It's bigger, better, and uses less fuel". Is he talking about a Cayenne??
As if he's read all the Rennlist criticisms and tries to counteract them. He does throw a few snipes in there with the cup holder and plastic rear engine cover. Overall, think he was happy just to wrap up the review.
"It's still a 911" that's about what you get out of it.
01-21-2019, 09:37 AM
#1047
Imagine if they took the 991.2
* Added the lighter aluminum
* Increased the HP just like the 992 which pretty much has the same engine from all reports.
* Didn't add all the additional weight, nor prepping the car and PDK for a hybrid. Who the hell needs an 8 speed PDK? Plus only doing a wide body across whole trim range which is also for the hybrid platform. All these items are a compromise to the current model for sake of prepping it for a hybrid. I think this is one of the biggest issues with me. Why on earth isn't any reviewer talking about all this added "fat"?? Rather they make excuses why the fat lady still manages to shake it up on the dance floor.
* Didn't try and cheap out by some of the cost savings all the while increasing MSRP.
* Evolved the 991.2 stying and didn't try too hard to be relevant to the masses.
* Actually had a 992 which weighed less than the 991.2
You'd have a pretty kick *** new generation ....
But you get a 992 which most reviewers still need to reassure viewers "this is still a 911" without great enthusiasm, rather using talking points why it's still a relevant sports car. It's pretty much a Panamera coupe as this point. Right???? That's fine, but it's lost its edge in my opinion. It's become too sterilized and domesticated. That could be a winning sales formula, but many enthusiasts still want something a little more raw and engaging.
Worrying about MPG, limiting RPM in city driving, and making sure we have a quiet enough cabin, exhaust, and road noise is taking this car down a different road.
The 911 is losing its independence and morphed into a inbred of the other Porsche models rather than a distant cousin.
"Let them make sedans and SUV's, as long as it gives them cash to make sports cars" .... The classic quote. Well now, the sports cars are being abducted by them.
Anyway, it is what it is at this point. Time to move on.
* Added the lighter aluminum
* Increased the HP just like the 992 which pretty much has the same engine from all reports.
* Didn't add all the additional weight, nor prepping the car and PDK for a hybrid. Who the hell needs an 8 speed PDK? Plus only doing a wide body across whole trim range which is also for the hybrid platform. All these items are a compromise to the current model for sake of prepping it for a hybrid. I think this is one of the biggest issues with me. Why on earth isn't any reviewer talking about all this added "fat"?? Rather they make excuses why the fat lady still manages to shake it up on the dance floor.
* Didn't try and cheap out by some of the cost savings all the while increasing MSRP.
* Evolved the 991.2 stying and didn't try too hard to be relevant to the masses.
* Actually had a 992 which weighed less than the 991.2
You'd have a pretty kick *** new generation ....
But you get a 992 which most reviewers still need to reassure viewers "this is still a 911" without great enthusiasm, rather using talking points why it's still a relevant sports car. It's pretty much a Panamera coupe as this point. Right???? That's fine, but it's lost its edge in my opinion. It's become too sterilized and domesticated. That could be a winning sales formula, but many enthusiasts still want something a little more raw and engaging.
Worrying about MPG, limiting RPM in city driving, and making sure we have a quiet enough cabin, exhaust, and road noise is taking this car down a different road.
The 911 is losing its independence and morphed into a inbred of the other Porsche models rather than a distant cousin.
"Let them make sedans and SUV's, as long as it gives them cash to make sports cars" .... The classic quote. Well now, the sports cars are being abducted by them.
Anyway, it is what it is at this point. Time to move on.
01-21-2019, 10:07 AM
#1048
Anyone who is influenced into such a large purchasing decision based on hearsay or opinionated articles, deserves to be screwed.
Best to drive it for yourself, our inputs, driving abilities and sensory perceptions make for a unique mix of thoughts and feelings that no one else can substitute.
I'll focus on driving what i have a lot more, and getting better at it. Thank you Porsche for saving me some hard-earned money!
Best to drive it for yourself, our inputs, driving abilities and sensory perceptions make for a unique mix of thoughts and feelings that no one else can substitute.
I'll focus on driving what i have a lot more, and getting better at it. Thank you Porsche for saving me some hard-earned money!
They don'r spent a lot of time talking about the sound level, sq ft of leather and other things that consumers actually judge for themselves.
Bench racing sells cars. Internet hype accelerates ROI on the new shiny things.
01-21-2019, 03:23 PM
#1049
Rennlist Member
Yes but the Godfather of Porsche Journalism, Pete Stout, has spoken, and he said it drives fantastically. I will forever hate all there's to hate on the car but I have no doubts it drives wonderfully, if he says so. One word from him is worth a thousand from monkey Harris and all other YouTube self-described experts.
I'm just a tourist—or maybe a janitor?
01-21-2019, 03:36 PM
#1050
Burning Brakes
If we look at the cars Harris buys for himself, I think that indicates where his real passion lies. It may not be what we all like, but it’s at least honest. And sometimes practical. From memory, he bought a Ferrari FF, a 991.1 GTS and a GT3 Touring. I could be less than impartial though. I think they’re all classics.