992 GT3 Speculation
07-19-2018, 03:16 PM
#76
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Background, I have had holding deposits down on the 982 GT4 and 992 GT3 for a number of years - in terms of engines and transmissions I'm agnostic e.g. I like both NA and turbo plus PDK and manual - horses for courses as it were. Please note I have a strong competition back ground (multiple accreditation), own a variety of sports cars and several Porsches including a current Series GTS.
So heres the rub, I have been closely following various tuning developments with an eye to a specialised sprint/ targa car - recently Cobb have released a series of tunes, as a general rule I'm fairly cynical about tuners - often large claimed gains off the back of highly inflated base lines. However in this case, its worth pondering this - BGB motorsports recently purchased a Series II GTS with a view to development.
The baseline dyno run yielded a very conservative 355-358RWHP (MAHA 370RWHP) and with a Cobb Stage 1 tune, on the same dyno, it ran 456-475RWHP (536HP-555HP at the crank) in the heat with OEM turbos, headers, exhaust, airbox and intercoolers. This is a very impressive result no ands ifs or buts.
Given my current PDK/SPASM/RAS/PDCC equipped GTS weighs in at around 3340lbs (official track weigh in with half tank of fuel) is there any point speculating about the 992 GT3. As I see it, adding the tune to my current GTS provides an interesting possibility for conversion to permanent track duty if the only weak points for short burst events (non endurance) are brakes and aero (and before anyone mentions it, yes I can drive the car to the limit of its tires, yes I do invest in continuous driver training of different types and in this instance I'm no longer bothered about the warranty etc etc
)
The question is, and given the above - is the GT3 played out, are there likely to be any significant improvements made to the engine and realistically where are the performance gains going to come from? (keep in mind at no point does the current GT3 and the speculated GT3 make more power/torque than the tuned GTS - even a cursory view shows the under the curve difference is very significant).
Curious as to peoples thoughts given the speculative nature of the thread . Have we arrived at a pivot point . Has Porsche chucked in the towel under the weight of emissions related legislation Is the current GT3 in effect the last hurrah before the full on drive to the dissembling performance of EVs.
So heres the rub, I have been closely following various tuning developments with an eye to a specialised sprint/ targa car - recently Cobb have released a series of tunes, as a general rule I'm fairly cynical about tuners - often large claimed gains off the back of highly inflated base lines. However in this case, its worth pondering this - BGB motorsports recently purchased a Series II GTS with a view to development.
The baseline dyno run yielded a very conservative 355-358RWHP (MAHA 370RWHP) and with a Cobb Stage 1 tune, on the same dyno, it ran 456-475RWHP (536HP-555HP at the crank) in the heat with OEM turbos, headers, exhaust, airbox and intercoolers. This is a very impressive result no ands ifs or buts.
Given my current PDK/SPASM/RAS/PDCC equipped GTS weighs in at around 3340lbs (official track weigh in with half tank of fuel) is there any point speculating about the 992 GT3. As I see it, adding the tune to my current GTS provides an interesting possibility for conversion to permanent track duty if the only weak points for short burst events (non endurance) are brakes and aero (and before anyone mentions it, yes I can drive the car to the limit of its tires, yes I do invest in continuous driver training of different types and in this instance I'm no longer bothered about the warranty etc etc
)The question is, and given the above - is the GT3 played out, are there likely to be any significant improvements made to the engine and realistically where are the performance gains going to come from? (keep in mind at no point does the current GT3 and the speculated GT3 make more power/torque than the tuned GTS - even a cursory view shows the under the curve difference is very significant).
Curious as to peoples thoughts given the speculative nature of the thread
. Have we arrived at a pivot point . Has Porsche chucked in the towel under the weight of emissions related legislation Is the current GT3 in effect the last hurrah before the full on drive to the dissembling performance of EVs.Ask any owner of a 7.2 RS 4.0 (or anyone who has significant seat time behind one) and they will tell you that that car is more than the sum of its parts.
So, yes, you can get a Cobb tune on a regular 911, upgrade the rotors, pistons and pads, as well as some canards, diffusers, larger wing, but it’s still not going to drive like a GT car, nor be comparable to one. It might not even be a 911 anymore.
07-19-2018, 04:39 PM
#77
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07-19-2018, 11:00 PM
#78
It’s more than just power, aero, and brakes that separates any regular 911 from a GT model. Aside from chassis, suspension tuning, and transmission, there’s all the little tweaks that the GT division builds into their cars that are rarely spoken of, much less marketed.
Ask any owner of a 7.2 RS 4.0 (or anyone who has significant seat time behind one) and they will tell you that that car is more than the sum of its parts.
So, yes, you can get a Cobb tune on a regular 911, upgrade the rotors, pistons and pads, as well as some canards, diffusers, larger wing, but it’s still not going to drive like a GT car, nor be comparable to one. It might not even be a 911 anymore.
The brakes aren't a problem, in this scenario its a case of swap over to RSL29 pads and RBF600 brake fluid and a slightly softer less rigid set up is better for Targa type stages. The gearbox has the Turbo gear set and ring/pinion shaft with shorter constant ratio - so no issue there with the added torque. Camber - I can get all that I need given tires are limited at these event. Thus it comes down to additional aero. This does have some value along with the slightly broader operating range in RAS. Hard to ignore the massive torque curve and 550HP on offer without the penalty weight of an AWD set up, more so given the weight differences between the GT3 and GTS is around 60kg (from what I've observed at the weigh bridge).For the time being, I'll keep my deposit in place and watch with interest if there are any heat related issues picked up by BGB in regard to the GTS - my feeling is the intercoolers may be the limiting factor but as it currently stands so far so good. In terms of the next GT3 all I can see are incremental changes (which knowing Porsche will be good) and little upside in the engine other than a very small power increase at the top end with little to gain across the curve.
07-19-2018, 11:02 PM
#79
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Ipse, I'm aware of all of the above - my direction is towards sprints and multi-stage events The brakes aren't a problem, in this scenario its a case of swap over to RSL29 pads and RBF600 brake fluid and a slightly softer less rigid set up is better for Targa type stages. The gearbox has the Turbo gear set and ring/pinion shaft with shorter constant ratio - so no issue there with the added torque. Camber - I can get all that I need given tires are limited at these event. Thus it comes down to additional aero. This does have some value along with the slightly broader operating range in RAS. Hard to ignore the massive torque curve and 550HP on offer without the penalty weight of an AWD set up, more so given the weight differences between the GT3 and GTS is around 60kg (from what I've observed at the weigh bridge).
For the time being, I'll keep my deposit in place and watch with interest if there are any heat related issues picked up by BGB in regard to the GTS - may feeling is the intercoolers may be the limiting factor but as it currently stands so far so good.
The brakes aren't a problem, in this scenario its a case of swap over to RSL29 pads and RBF600 brake fluid and a slightly softer less rigid set up is better for Targa type stages. The gearbox has the Turbo gear set and ring/pinion shaft with shorter constant ratio - so no issue there with the added torque. Camber - I can get all that I need given tires are limited at these event. Thus it comes down to additional aero. This does have some value along with the slightly broader operating range in RAS. Hard to ignore the massive torque curve and 550HP on offer without the penalty weight of an AWD set up, more so given the weight differences between the GT3 and GTS is around 60kg (from what I've observed at the weigh bridge).For the time being, I'll keep my deposit in place and watch with interest if there are any heat related issues picked up by BGB in regard to the GTS - may feeling is the intercoolers may be the limiting factor but as it currently stands so far so good.
07-20-2018, 04:15 AM
#80
The enemy is weight & legislation.
07-20-2018, 05:56 AM
#81
07-20-2018, 07:32 AM
#82
Rennlist Member
I pickup my 991.2 GT3 in 2 months. I don’t plan to get a 992.1 GT3 as the differences will be too small. After getting my 991.2 GT3, I’m going to wait to upgrade until the 992.2 GT3.
Last edited by Drifting; 07-20-2018 at 07:49 PM.
08-24-2018, 02:00 PM
#83
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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08-24-2018, 10:28 PM
#85
It will be turbo, flippers be ready
08-28-2018, 08:05 PM
#90
I heard 992 will be front wheel drive to deter flippers 