wassy

deaer is not requiring me to use PFS. I am using porsche’s Pull ahead program and therefore they are waiving 7 remaining payments on current lease. In order to use the program I need to stay with PFS. But they have no requirement to keep loan open any specific time.

wassy

how do you figure? I’d you are using the payments in the pic I attached, knock about $100-150 per month off of that with the refinance a few weeks later at 2 - 2.49%.

Also assuming vehicle is worth more than residual I’d fare better still. Leases have mucho fees and added bs in them like upfront costs not part of financing or buying. If Porsche used 60% residual this would be a no brainer but 53% I think is too low. I could always payoff lease or loan but again, in my experience leasing still costs more- in this case. When I lease BMW or Lexus and they allow (bmw no longer) multiple security deposits, the deal gets too good not to lease. I’ll calculate out 3-4 different scenarios when I get home using actual #’s. For $5000 you are right, it might pay to lease and buy car at end if worth enough more than buyout. Much more than that buying seems the better option.

Dealer just called again and wanted wanted to reiterate his only suggestion for leasing is in the case of a carfax notation. He agrees and is first to say buying is a better option dollar wise, Apple’s to apple’s.

Werks 1

Use PenFed.....1.4% - 1. 79%....Great rates up to $100,000

wassy

Not that younall care about the pennies but I ran a comparison using exact #,s inclusive of up front dollars ($4400 lease and $10k finance- I may put a lot more down but for competitive figures I used their #’s), refinancing after 2 PFS payments at 4.24% and then 2.49% for 72 months again, but using payoff in 34 months of that new loan. I will probably end getting 2% on the loan but I’m using my worst case scenario.

Difference at end of day IF Porsche is right and car worth $89k in 36 months is $8504.

Now, I also did projections at $95k, $105k etc. so for example, let’s say $95,000 resale. Well, I would think I’d have $6k in equity and then want to buy the car at the end of lease to use the $6000 on the next car. Then I realize for me to buy it I also have to pay tax on that buyout of $5340. So I would need at least $94,000 in resale on the lease to break even that way. I do believe though if the dealer buys the car rather then me they avoid the taxes and I just do a new lease and keep any equity.

In the loan side side of the same projections of 95k considering The payoff, I walk away with $10,000 and a tax credit towards new car of $5340.

If i look strictly on a payment level, the buy end runs me about $400 less per month. Please don’t say if I am concerned about $400 a month I shouldn’t be in a Porsche. Again, I’m strictly doing an analysis. I can afford it. I haven’t financed or bought a car in years (except for my TTS) and needed to brush up. I may even just pay the whole thing off and be done but at 2% I’d be hard pressed to not borrow almostnfree money.

Complicated for sure and some of you may agree that this is a lot of work for $8500 or potentially much more but at least I now have put my mind to rest and have a clearer picture.

Usually, a lease is substantially less costly than buying for us who like to switch cars every few years, so when I realized the buy side on this was cheaper, it got me thinking maybe their lease terms on this car at this time sucks. For laughs and giggles, her 2015 911 c4s cabrio with an msrp of around $145k ran me $1247/mo tax in for 30 mos. $20k higher car, $1500 more per month- wouldn’t you start asking questions? Lol

guab

Another user suggested PenFed. If you can't deduct any of the lease for tax purposes, and don't mind risking the value reduction from an accident -- it might be a better option to do a balloon.

Interest rate is ~1.7% and the balloon on $100k is $66k after 36 months. That's the route I'm going instead of leasing through PFS. IMO, their residuals are way too conservative for low option cars... higher it's probably accurate (even the MRM). Rumor is they'll let you go above $100k though Haven't tried it but I know of a few people who have made it work. Might still work even with you staying with PFS first few months too. Then lower payment, good chunk of money down, but you'll get it back when you trade at the end.

Selling a Targa 4 GTS private party is going to be a very frustrating process... so base your decisions on expected trade-in value. I think 53% is probably about what I would expect after 36 months... maybe lower. Just go look at 2014 TTS trade-in values.

Just my $0.02.

Enjoy the car! Wish they'd make a Targa TTS.

wassy

Your 2 cents may in fact be worth a lot more than that. I spoke with penfed (I’m a member). $100,000 Max Loan no exceptions. So if I put down $70,000 on car bringing loan to $100,000 with taxes and all, a regular say 60 month loan at 2.5% is $1768 or so a month and I’d owe $42,500 at end of 36. If I do the balloon, (Penfed payment saver loan), they have a balloon of $76,000 in 36 months with a monthly payment of $791. If car is worth only what Porsche thinks it will be, the balloon is a better deal by $8000 over leasing and more over conventional financing. That’s assuming an $89k resale. Also includes free gap insurance which is really not needed with so much down.

Thanks for the suggestion.

IreneYoung

I am interested to know here the lease deal for 2017 TARGA 4 GTS. I am planning also to lease it this year. Maybe you can share it here.

wassy

Right now it’s 53% residual for 36 months, 10,000 miles. Base minecfactor is .0022. A $167,500 targa 4 gts with a 5% discount plus some bogus fees and $4400 out of pocket is about $2750 a month with 6% tax.

fast1

Is your Sales Adviser an attorney? He's giving you legal advice about contract law. When the lessee returns a previously damaged vehicle at lease end, the lessor may hold them liable for the amount of the diminished value, regardless of how well the vehicle has been repaired. If the leased car is a $20K Toyota, the lessor will probably ignore any DV. Now on a $100K+ car, someone is going to suffer a significant loss because of DV, and I highly doubt that it will be the lessor.

wassy

Thats a good point. However, he’s referring solely to the carfax notation. This is all with the assumption that any damage will be repaired properly. I get his point. If I’m buying a used car, especially a Porsche, and I see something denoted on carfax I’m walking away, personally. Doesn’t matter that the story was a scratch on rear bumper and was repainted perfectly. That’s the story I’m told but how do I really know that was the extent of it. I am not an attorney but I do know that if a car is repaired properly there will be no recourse on the back end of a lease.

If I’m wrong and you can show me that a leasee is liable for dimished value (which is subjective), I think the leasing market would come to a halt. I could be very wrong here but never heard of this type of liability.

oh, it was the Sales Manager, not advisor. They do both agree financially it makes more sense to buy, he was just trying to look out for me. If this was one of my typical BMW’s, or Toyota etc- lease all day every day. Porsche doe not subsidize their leases at all, uses conservative residuals and a high money factor. I guess we pay to play 😉

Car may in fact arrive today from transport, was due on 30th. We leave for Seattle Tuesday for 9 days so we are hoping we can get it today and garage it until we return. Wife doesn’t want it sitting in showroom (I don’t disagree). So excited we are! Maybe me more than her. Lol.

Thanks for your post, good info!

justabout

i had a lease with Porsche and with the exception of hail and water damage, as long as Porsche parts are used in a crash repair, they take the car back if it's repaired properly. I don't recall any statement about reduced value. Are they using excess wear to extract more money at lease turn in? The contract was very clear that water and hail damage results in the customer buying the car.

i turned in a car that had repaired accident damage without any consequences. Was about $12k in damage.

justabout

leases appear to be lucrative so it hard to imagine they are intent on screwing the customer.

fast1

I know that DV can be substantial on an expensive car, but I just don't know who would be responsible when the car is leased. I've owned many 911s over the decades, but they were all cash purchases. So I'm certainly not an expert on a car lease contract.
Last summer a friend of mine had his 2015 Turbo rear ended. My friend was stopped at a traffic signal and sustained both rear and front end damage (the impact pushed him into a truck which was also stopped for the traffic signal). Total cost of repairs was almost $25K and he was paid $15K in DV. My friend had an appraiser who specializes in DV claims appraise his car, and the estimate was accepted by the other party's Insurance Company.
So in the case of a lease, I'm not certain if a lessee even has standing for a DV claim since he doesn't own the car. Maybe only the lessor can sue. In any case someone has the potential to take a significant loss when an expensive car is involved in an accident. Also, what happens when the lessee is at fault. I don't know of any Insurance Companies that cover their policy holders in that instance.

IreneYoung

Do you think this is a good deal? I wonder if I could get the best deal for it, or should I wait for the 2018 new model? Thoughts?

wassy

“Good deal”? NO. We had planned on ordering a 2018 but when we found an identical already built 2017, immediate gratification set in. Go for the 2018 if you can.