Scottykenneth

Sorry if already posted. Thought I share if not.

*991*

Awesome
Are dealers charging over MSRP for the MY18 GT3?

sdq7

PDK 0-60 3.2s 6MT 3.8 Enough said!

rai

Hard to argue the PDK is quicker.

In the past a quicker car would cost more money but apparently MT is more fun and so people are more interested in that aspect.

I'm curious, myself I don't go to drag strip or race track nor even line up and race on street like the F&F movies.

So it's the seat of my pants and while I'm sure PDK will be faster, will I notice the difference between 0-100 in 7 seconds or 7.5 seconds (or whatever the numbers are)?

For the record, I am attracted to both twin clutch and MT and can not decide which is better.

IMO HW driving plus stop and go basically 80% of DD the PDK is better but for fun the MT is probably better.

I have been watching a lot of videos and such and more people are psyched about the MT and the 911R is a huge success and (I'd bet) the MT will hold value better but I can see myself going either way, there is not a bad choice between the two. It's like Led Zeppelin or The Rolling Stones can say which is really the best. IMO

NoGaBiker

I appreciate your humility, but may I offer an alternative to this oft-advanced theory?

How about this: if the reason MT "is probably better" is because shifting it is "fun," to quote your post, then would it not be reasonable to assume that in stop and go traffic you simply get a chance to enjoy even more "fun?"

For some reason people seem to believe that the act of engaging gears through the coordination of throttle, clutch and gearlever-hand is fun if enjoyed XX number of times an hour but becomes burdensome if required XX+1 times an hour. Sure, being stuck in traffic is no fun, per se. But for me, it's the PDK box, outstanding under hard driving, which becomes boring in S&G puttering along. The manual, insofar as you find it fun in general, offers the only possible mechanical diversion from the ennui of being stuck in traffic. Of course our myriad screens, SatRadio, the guy next to you picking his nose, the hot girl in the convertible 3-Series, etc. all serve useful diversionary purposes. But to me, the simple act of engaging gear, rolling forward, disengaging, repeated endlessly, restores some small semblance of my feeling of participation in the great act of driving, even though so very little is otherwise demanded of me in urban gridlock.

And for the record, even though I've just reconverted from PDK to manual in the last 12 days, the above was my stated position when I had the PDK.

Cheers!

rai

I can't decide when I had a DCT (M3) it was fun in its own right when I was especially whenaccelerating hard but driving was less involving.

To me shifting to move forward, just to move in traffic (I mean clutch in out repeat) that's not fun to me, shifting gears in stop and go traffic is a chore to me. I can do without that. I think 'fun' to me is shifting the gears at higher revs. If I'm in S&G traffic or just in HW traffic I'm fine just letting the car do most of the work.

RODOLFO04

For the MT vs PDK debate

take a VIDEO GAMER approach

is it more satisfying to win in NOVICE mode, were the computer does 25% of the job for you

or to win in expert mode, were you have to do all the job, even if it more difficult

or a RACING DRIVER approach

were you can win in novice class on a less challenging car

or finishing 3rd on expert class with a car that really makes you work for it

like stated above, MT is only better when you like the challenge and the full driving experience

if you just want a DD and dont car for the full driving experience pdk is definitely easier and better

if you want just to be the fastest in a racing class and pdk is permitted you have to go for pdk

rai

Car and Driver tested the 2014 GT3 0-60 at 3.0 sec, perhaps the new engine will push it into the 2's? That's just crazy by the way.

NoGaBiker

You know, back in the manual transmission days car and driver used to always be at least a half second faster than Porsche, and sometimes even more delta than that. But I don't see how now, with PDK cars with launch control, anybody is any faster than anybody else. Sure, a couple tenths attributable to the friction surface of the road or track and the ambient temperature during the relative tests. But it used to be that car and driver was 100% of the time measurably quite a bit faster than Porsche's numbers, and to be honest, faster than other magazines as well. I always figured they were either fudging the numbers to have the most spectacular, headline-grabbing results, or they were willing to abuse the drivetrain of test cars even more than other magazines, and much more than Porsche.

But if they are consistently faster than Porsche's numbers with PDK, it leads one to suspect they have a culture of shaving a few tenths or more off of their actual results for purposes of grandstanding.

Rambler_13

I wonder if it will be a little easier to get a .2 PDK vs. manual if much of the initial circus leads towards the manual allocations. Just having moved from a 7MT GTS to a PDK Turbo S, I can say that there were certain elements of the dual clutch that I missed from my M3. I won't argue which is better but a few things that I love about having a dual clutch:

- There's nothing like the shotgun blast, donkey kick to your back feeling of a high rpm dual clutch upshift.

- I feel like I can focus a lot more on driving which in itself is engaging and fun for me. Sometimes manually shifting can become a distraction.

- Ok, I drink a lot of f'qing coffee and sometimes just want to hold a f'qning container of coffee without drama. Is that so wrong?

- I can actually use some of the amenities offered in the car, like the contraption in the middle that plays music.

But in all seriousness, I love both offerings and the fact that only PDK is offered in the Turbo obviously makes the decision easier and I can never be torn about not choosing the manual option since it doesn't exist.

3Series

0.6 seconds is huge difference. Probably even greater when you are talking sub 4 second times. On a track, 0-60 isn't very useful, its the rolling start times that make a difference. 0.5 seconds used to mean two car lengths or something like that. If two cars are carrying the same speed out of a corner into a long straight where the cars are hitting 140-150mph, PDK is going to win the DE race for you.....oh wait there are no winners...

Anyway 0-60 is all marketing. Buy what you want. Cup cars don't use either trans....

One of my track buddies has a 991.2 GT3 on order. I can't wait to see it...maybe drive it.... I think he takes delivery in Sept and if I recall correctly, he's paying MSRP. He's also trading in a 991.1 GTS so I'm sure the dealer will make money on that end of the deal to.

NoGaBiker

Excellent points. These are all well-stated advantages of PDK (well, except for the f'qing coffee point. You need to grow up and drink tea.) In fact, if I had the luxury (?) of driving my Porsche sports car -- no matter which one it was -- 40% or more in an environment where I needed to "focus a lot more on driving," as you put it, I'd have stayed with PDK. Because that's exactly what it allows me to do -- concentrate on braking point, turn-in, apex, track-out, and other cars to the exclusion of nearly everything else. And that's true both at the track and in the mountains. Not only am I measurably faster with PDK, I actually enjoy my 9/10s and 10/10s drives (slightly) more.

For 5/10s to 8/10s I slightly prefer 6M (not sure about 7M since I've never owned one, but presumably it's not that different than 6M). And for under 5/10s I pretty strongly favor 6M.

Perfect Porsche? When you pulled it back into D it would work as an automatic PDK, exactly as it does currently, including the excellent Sport+ button that holds all shifts to redline. But when you pulled it left into M, that would activate the clutch pedal and you'd have a full 6M H-pattern. I could get behind that sort of Porsche Hybrid!

sdq7

This debate always carry's on and time will tell. In the end, if they had offered both without the deletion of the 6MT drama, I really wonder which one would be more popular? You always want what you cant have so the absence of one drives the frenzy in my opinion. Just think about what the demand would be for PDK if it were a rare option? People here would be killing each other for a place in line. Quite funny to watch human behavior react to supply and demand. Just buy what you like more. Me, I love the PDK and have no use for the manual anymore. We are all different but if you are really buying because you enjoy it and not because you can't have it or think it is going to be worth more for resale then feel good about your decision and move on.

NoGaBiker

Good question. We'll now find out. The only anecdotal pointer I can think of is 997.2 GT3 3.8 and 4.0 and GT2RS; I'm sure they were out there but I don't remember one single voice clamoring for the newly-released PDK box to be made available in the GT cars. You could say "Well, they weren't well-known yet so demand hadn't built," but I believe over 70% of 997.2 Turbos were PDKs. Different audience I suppose, but at any rate my takeaway is this:

When GT3 was 6M-only, I never heard or read anyone asking for a PDK option.

When GT3 was PDK only, countless voices were clamoring for 6M.

So I don't think we can pin it very much on the "I only want the thing I can't have" syndrome. (Although I agree with you on that being a very real symptom of the human condition. I just don't think the buyers of GT3s necessarily are as susceptible to it as the gen-pop or even the general 911 audience when it comes to transmission choice.)

sdq7

Not quite the same as having it available in limited supply, it just wan't a choice. If this iteration of this masterpiece of a gearbox was available as a limited option, I have no doubt that it would have been a debate.