Feedback after one week with my new 2017 911 / 991.2
06-19-2017, 09:57 PM
#61
Having read this thread I think you have purchased the wrong car.
I also find the PCM is very functional and straight forward to use. Importantly all information from phone calls, to GPS, to digital data can be relayed through the screen to the right of the rev counter.
This ensures both hands remain on the steering wheel and you are looking forward at all times - which happens to be the safest way to drive. You can control all aspects of the car from the wheel and if you have SC, all performance attributes too.
The **** actuated systems that drive you through endless menus are at total PITA and a distraction. You see so many people playing with their menus on a commute - not focussing on the road ahead. I am very glad Porsche stayed away from this route and Android....... Apple car play and Siri works fine.
I honestly think you should go for a Lexus, S class or a Tesla P100 - they will cover your needs for both daily driving and infotainment.
In contrast a 911 is a 2+2 sports car (its never advertised as a 4 seater), functional and effective with a lot of very good engineering, speciality steels and materials used in its construction and underpinnings. This gives the car high torsional rigidity in a relatively light weight package. The PDK is widely regarded as the best dual clutch system on the market. I doubt you'd find a dissenting opinion in relation to the PDK.
From a driving, performance and engineering perspective the 911 is in another league to anything made by BMW. Thats why something like 65% of all Porsche sports cars ever built are still on the road today.
I guess I'm very much in the camp of you knowingly purchased a sports car, presumably after a test drive. You didn't have to buy it if it didn't if it didn't fulfil your specific needs.
As an afterthought - Porsche design philosophy follows the approach of "form" follows "function" this may or may not help your thinking
I also find the PCM is very functional and straight forward to use. Importantly all information from phone calls, to GPS, to digital data can be relayed through the screen to the right of the rev counter.
This ensures both hands remain on the steering wheel and you are looking forward at all times - which happens to be the safest way to drive. You can control all aspects of the car from the wheel and if you have SC, all performance attributes too.
The **** actuated systems that drive you through endless menus are at total PITA and a distraction. You see so many people playing with their menus on a commute - not focussing on the road ahead. I am very glad Porsche stayed away from this route and Android....... Apple car play and Siri works fine.
I honestly think you should go for a Lexus, S class or a Tesla P100 - they will cover your needs for both daily driving and infotainment.
In contrast a 911 is a 2+2 sports car (its never advertised as a 4 seater), functional and effective with a lot of very good engineering, speciality steels and materials used in its construction and underpinnings. This gives the car high torsional rigidity in a relatively light weight package. The PDK is widely regarded as the best dual clutch system on the market. I doubt you'd find a dissenting opinion in relation to the PDK.
From a driving, performance and engineering perspective the 911 is in another league to anything made by BMW. Thats why something like 65% of all Porsche sports cars ever built are still on the road today.
I guess I'm very much in the camp of you knowingly purchased a sports car, presumably after a test drive. You didn't have to buy it if it didn't if it didn't fulfil your specific needs.
As an afterthought - Porsche design philosophy follows the approach of "form" follows "function" this may or may not help your thinking
Last edited by randr; 06-19-2017 at 10:17 PM.
06-21-2017, 12:20 PM
#62
Instructor
Thread Starter
@randr
I know very well the "form follows function" principle ;-)
First, please don't try to tell me that the 911 is not the car for me. I have done an extensive homework and spent a lot of time reading about it and have done many test drives (911 and others) before taking my decision.
Telling me that I should get a big and heavy car like a Tesla Model S or a MB S Class or even a Lexus is totally ridiculous, out of context and does not make sense to me. It shows that you have just partially read the thread. FYI I got a M5 and got rid of it for the exact problem about dimensions, weight and agility. I consider those big cars as "monstrositat".
Second, yes, the 911 is very good and excellent in many ways (I said it many times in the current thread) but also lacks here and there and I am not the only one to say it. Not recognizing it is just being blind or being a "pundit". For me this is a bit sad as we are quite close to perfection and I am just hoping Porsche is really listening to customer feedback (many Porsche people I met since I bought my 911 confirmed me this point, so we will see how it goes).
Of course, there is no perfect car per say in absolute nor in relative way; there is no perfect car available for your use case nor my use case. It is a matter of some compromises that have been knowingly done by the people who designed and built the car and accepted by us as customers.
As a reminder, I am using my 911 as a daily driver with about 50 miles total commute trip and then I am using it for week end trips (can be anything between 100 to 1000 miles). So my car is for real use and she will not stay too much in the garage. She may go also to the track here and there.
So all my feedback was done in the context of "daily driver".
Third, if you read the definition of a 2+2 body style (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B2_(car_body_style)) you will see:
"2+2 is a configuration with seating for the driver and one passenger in the front plus two smaller seats for occasional passengers (or children) in the rear."
You will notice that some cars in that Wikipedia list have more space of the back seats than others. Currently for the 911 / 991.2 that space is pretty small and this is a fact.
Well, I am a normal sized person and I cannot fit in the back seats even "occasionally". This is also a fact. There is a lack of leg room for those back seats and this is why I was commenting in a post about fixing this situation by giving the cabin a bit more space thru forwarding it a bit on the front axle. Having this issue after the redesign for the 991 iteration is kind of a bummer as the car got bigger dimensions but there was no real improvement for those back seats.
Fourth, yes, I like the simplicity of the touch screen PCM and I think it needs to stay simple, elegant and effective and at the same time promoting driver safety. I also said that I really like the small screen to the right of the RPM counter.
But ... the PCM has also some issues: screen a bit to small, options buried into some difficult to access or remember locations and the online services integration is not that great and Porsche representatives have admitted that they are aware of it and working on it.
As I said before, it is also frustrating that some basic features like Map updates and real time traffic infos are under a subscription when competitor offer that for free (I cannot use Apple CarPlay and Android Auto is not supported).
For Android Auto, your feedback shows also that you dont know it. It is quite similar to Apple CarPlay and focus on driver safety by promoting simplicity. The point we made in the thread is that Porsche sadly decided not to include it because they were not agreeing with the Terms of Services defined by Google. This is uncool for all Android users who own that car.
Fifth, concerning the PDK, it seems so far very good but have some issues. Again, I am not the only one having some issues. Do some research on RL. Mine is about being a bit painful when engaging the reverse gear. My M4 was very good at it so I dont understand why this is a problem on the 911. Maybe I need to wait a bit to see how it will go. Maybe my PDK is deficient. A little bit more time will tell.
Last, I really understand that the 911 is very well built and age very well.
I know very well the "form follows function" principle ;-)
First, please don't try to tell me that the 911 is not the car for me. I have done an extensive homework and spent a lot of time reading about it and have done many test drives (911 and others) before taking my decision.
Telling me that I should get a big and heavy car like a Tesla Model S or a MB S Class or even a Lexus is totally ridiculous, out of context and does not make sense to me. It shows that you have just partially read the thread. FYI I got a M5 and got rid of it for the exact problem about dimensions, weight and agility. I consider those big cars as "monstrositat".
Second, yes, the 911 is very good and excellent in many ways (I said it many times in the current thread) but also lacks here and there and I am not the only one to say it. Not recognizing it is just being blind or being a "pundit". For me this is a bit sad as we are quite close to perfection and I am just hoping Porsche is really listening to customer feedback (many Porsche people I met since I bought my 911 confirmed me this point, so we will see how it goes).
Of course, there is no perfect car per say in absolute nor in relative way; there is no perfect car available for your use case nor my use case. It is a matter of some compromises that have been knowingly done by the people who designed and built the car and accepted by us as customers.
As a reminder, I am using my 911 as a daily driver with about 50 miles total commute trip and then I am using it for week end trips (can be anything between 100 to 1000 miles). So my car is for real use and she will not stay too much in the garage. She may go also to the track here and there.
So all my feedback was done in the context of "daily driver".
Third, if you read the definition of a 2+2 body style (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B2_(car_body_style)) you will see:
"2+2 is a configuration with seating for the driver and one passenger in the front plus two smaller seats for occasional passengers (or children) in the rear."
You will notice that some cars in that Wikipedia list have more space of the back seats than others. Currently for the 911 / 991.2 that space is pretty small and this is a fact.
Well, I am a normal sized person and I cannot fit in the back seats even "occasionally". This is also a fact. There is a lack of leg room for those back seats and this is why I was commenting in a post about fixing this situation by giving the cabin a bit more space thru forwarding it a bit on the front axle. Having this issue after the redesign for the 991 iteration is kind of a bummer as the car got bigger dimensions but there was no real improvement for those back seats.
Fourth, yes, I like the simplicity of the touch screen PCM and I think it needs to stay simple, elegant and effective and at the same time promoting driver safety. I also said that I really like the small screen to the right of the RPM counter.
But ... the PCM has also some issues: screen a bit to small, options buried into some difficult to access or remember locations and the online services integration is not that great and Porsche representatives have admitted that they are aware of it and working on it.
As I said before, it is also frustrating that some basic features like Map updates and real time traffic infos are under a subscription when competitor offer that for free (I cannot use Apple CarPlay and Android Auto is not supported).
For Android Auto, your feedback shows also that you dont know it. It is quite similar to Apple CarPlay and focus on driver safety by promoting simplicity. The point we made in the thread is that Porsche sadly decided not to include it because they were not agreeing with the Terms of Services defined by Google. This is uncool for all Android users who own that car.
Fifth, concerning the PDK, it seems so far very good but have some issues. Again, I am not the only one having some issues. Do some research on RL. Mine is about being a bit painful when engaging the reverse gear. My M4 was very good at it so I dont understand why this is a problem on the 911. Maybe I need to wait a bit to see how it will go. Maybe my PDK is deficient. A little bit more time will tell.
Last, I really understand that the 911 is very well built and age very well.
06-21-2017, 02:41 PM
#63
Well now. Congrats on the car droidfan but where are the damn pictures!!
06-21-2017, 05:32 PM
#64
Instructor
Thread Starter
@sampelligrino how do I push photos on this forum ?
Strike that, I found it there: https://rennlist.com/forums/rennlist...-pictures.html
I will publish some today
Strike that, I found it there: https://rennlist.com/forums/rennlist...-pictures.html
I will publish some today
06-21-2017, 05:33 PM
#65
From my understanding you can either edit your original post or reply to this thread and "go advanced" then scroll down to see "manage attachments." Click on that link then you can upload photos from your drive, folder, or desktop etc...
06-21-2017, 05:43 PM
#67
