The 991 versus the BMW M2 - My Observations
 

I drive a 991.1 base carrera cab. I recently had an opportunity to drive the new BMW M2. While the M2 could not be driven above 5,500 RPM (still in break-in period), I have the following observations.

The M2 is truly a fantastic car. It feels faster and has more “emotion” when you push it. It handles beautifully; one feels in complete control. It has more hp (365 vs. 350) and torque (343 vs. 287) than my 991. While in my opinion it does not drive as good as my 991, the difference is not much.

I know that hp and torque do not represent the full picture. My wife used to have a BMW 335i that had more hp and torque than a 997 that I used to own. I drove the 335i once and did not bother driving it after that. The M2, however, is a completely different animal than the 335i.

Considering the price difference between the M2 and the 991, the M2 is a real bargain. After having driven the M2 car and a GTR before that I can say that the 991 base Carrera and S models are overpriced for what you get. Would I change my 991 for the M2? No. I still like my 991 better. But it is hard to justify the $40k difference (new car price, depending on options) between the M2 and the 991.

Would I buy a 911 again? Yes. But I now think that the real 'bargain' in the 911 line-up is the Turbo. I say 'bargain' in comparison with the higher price supercars that the TT competes with and beats.

Just my observations! YMMV.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Was the M2 the 6-speed manual transmission or the 7-speed dual clutch?

Can you comment on the ride and in particular the compliance on city roads? While the non-adjustable dampers are said to be a good compromise between track and road use, I've read that the rear-axle is affixed to the chassis without rubber mounts, so the rear can be a bit crashy/harsh over sharp bumps and road protrusions. Could it be a comfortable daily driver?

How does the ride compare to your 991? Does your 991 have PASM?

And yes, as an overall package, the M2 does offer a lot for it's price: sportiness, fun-to-drive, seating for 4, trunk space, amongst others.

The M2 and my 991 are both MT. The M2 has 6 gears; the 991 has 7 gears.
My 991 has sports chrono (with engine mounts) and sports+ option. No pasm.

The M2 has three settings: comfort, sport, and sport +. In comfort mode, the M2 can be a daily driver. No question. I preferred the sport+ mode though (more enthusiastic driving as should have been expected). By the same token, I drive my Porsche in Sport+ mode most of the time.
They are both daily drivers in my book except when the temperature gets in the 30s because of the tires. If you plan to drive them in the snow or near freezing temperatures, you need winter tires.

And by the way, no problem driving in city roads.

Good to know...the M2 is high on my list as an eventual replacement for the current DD, which is a 328xi! :)

The M2 is in another league. You would be happy. But remember that it is 2WD and since you are in CT, you WILL need winter tires.

Absolutely but hopefully I have couple of years to go before I need a new car

Thanks for your review. I have a manual M2 on order due to be delivered in 1 month. I can't wait to drive it, it will be my daily. I used to drive a 991 C2 PDK..and I will post my review in due time.

I drove the M2 and 718S back to back in Europe, I felt the turn in of the M2 had improved over the M3 and M4 and that was about it.

The 718S was clearly in a different league both in terms of handling dynamics and responsiveness. Also the interior of the M2 was a horror story.

The M2 is good bang for buck so is the Grand Sport

A good friend just picked his M2 up about a month ago. It came with DCT. He wanted a manual but it would have taken several months to come in so he purchased this at dealer that had one in stock (350 miles south of Houston). He was able to reduce the $5,000 premium over sticker to $3,000. I have not driven the car but I have been a passenger and these are my observations of the car. The car rides smooth enough. Similar to my old E46. It has a nice exhaust sound. Much better than the chainsaw sound of the M3/4. It is very quick but there is noticeable turbo lag below 2,000 RPM. It's only for a moment but noticeable. While the car does have different driving modes, it does not change the suspension dynamics. I believe it might sharpen the steering and throttle response but it does not change the firmness of the suspension. The interior is nice enough. It's not plush but it does not look cheap. How it compares to a base 991, I do not know. I have a 991.1 GTS and the M2 compares only in ride quality and, by my estimations, close to the acceleration of my MT GTS. After that, there is no comparison (too many to list but that is to be expected when the GTS costs a little more than twice as much). I am considering buying a used one in about 2 to 3 years to modify for track duty. I think it will do well on the track. We are both tracking our cars at MSR Houston in November and TWS in College Station in December and I will be curious about his lap times. I wish I could drive his car on the track to see how it compares to my GTS but that would mean that I would have to loan him my GTS for him to track and no can do. I will post more observations of his car after our track days.

Funny, I'm looking for a GTS but found an M2 allocation in the interim. I want to give it a whirl given all the outstanding reviews. Its never going to be a 911, but at half the the price who cares?

i personally think BMW has done a far better job with turbos than Porsche, I loved my 135i and my M5. The turbo lag in my TTS was horrible compared to these other two.

I can't wait to try the M2! still looking for a GTS though I think its a keeper..

I have driven the M2 and M4 back to back at Homeastead Speedway. The M2 held its own but once you jump into the M4 you know you are driving a much better car all around. By the way, there is no comparison to be made with a 991.1 GTS.

Two rather different cars being compared.

A street/track focused M2 would feel Lighter/more powerful/stiffer and imo much better than a base 991.1 cab. A person looking into a 991.1 cab probably wouldn't look at a an M2.

doubled up

Very much agree with this, the M2 has great turn in and feels sharper initially than the M3/M4 but after that its the M3/M4 all the way.

I drove the M2/718S back to back during a recent trip. I thought the M2 was good but nowhere near as sharp or dynamic as the 718S. In fact the M2 had pronounced turbo lag, not a deal stopper but certainly very real.

The M2 is a great value proposition and I have no doubt it will be rightly enjoyed by many.

I haven't driven the m2 but did drive the m3 and it just has a fair amount of heft to it. It felt close to my f10 m5 so I wanted something lighter and more nimble feeling.

I'm hoping it's the m2. If not I'll jump into the m3

Different cars for different needs / drivers.


Shouldn't compare track performance of the M2 with the 911 base cabrio, IMHO.


Aesthetics are important? No further questions, your honor.

Funny, I had the same dilemma while shopping - I was annoyed at not finding a manual 997.2/991 and I tried the M2 - I also own a 1973 2002 so I'm not anti-bimmer at all. The dealer didn't even want me to test drive it at all! And it was marked up $10000 over MSRP just because... I sat in it and didn't like the driving position as much, nor did the looks of the car strike me as a $65000 car - more like a tarted up 2 series - which made the price a little unpalatable...

Eventually on a subsequent visit with another sales guy (same dealer) I did manage to take one out with the salesman. Sedate test drive requested on a new car, I cannot comment on turn-in or heel and toe-ing it, the torque was nice, steering was kinda numb, but overall the car just did not feel *special* like a 911 does... it's prettier than the old "pregnant cat" 1-series but for that price, I eventually found a 991. Yes, less torque. But not even close as far as blowing me away when I open the garage door !

I put a deposit on a 2018 M2 CS. No real info on it yet but am hoping it may be special.

There's a fun little YouTube video of a track comparo between the M2 and a Macan Turbo. One minute track, M2 barely beat the Macan.

As a loyal BMW owner I think the M2 is a very sporty 2-door sedan. I would own one except I like cars from Stuttgart better (and I don't mean Mercedes)

Part of Porsche ownership has to be exclusivity. BMW sold over 1.9 million vehicles in 2015 globally. Porsche 225,000.

I just can't get over M3/4 costing 90K and M6's being double... since when? jeesh. Cars are just getting too crazy priced in general!

What's a CS?

^^A rumored variant of the M2, forgot what the CS stands for...coupe sport, club sport or something.

I have 2 bummers and it sounds interesting. Might get the S55 motor of the M3/4 and close to or at 400HP, few pounds lighter too.

Let's see...

interesting thoughts here. i'm in the market, again, for a new car. I'm trying to get my hands on a 2014 C2S with 15k miles, PDK, basic steering wheel (blah) which is a little over $80k. The M2 is on my radar but is going for $5-10k over MSRP everywhere I look, even on leftover 2016 models. I'm also really considering a new M3 because they can be had at under MSRP. I've had two of the new F80 M3s and they're awesome but I talked myself out of them somehow. I have kids in car seats so the 991.1 isn't perfect, but in a year or so we'll be looking at boosters and it'll make more sense. the M2 actually seems to accommodate car seats better which i find weird, but it has to do with the bucket shape of the 991.1 seats.

the M2 sounds like a really FUN car. i think it looks aggressive as well but the interior quality is more along the lines of the base 2series than the other M cars. as noted by others though, the price makes the M2 a much better proposition, but not a replacement for the finer quality found in other cars. much like the Ford GT350. it has presence, performance, sound, but when you sit in it and look around.... :-/

Never driven the M2 though it's look (both exterior and interior) turned me off.

I did drive M4 and I can tell you it handled like a tank. I dont know what BMW did but M4 is not close to porsche in terms of handling.

I drove the M4 for about 40 minute and I honestly dont have anything interesting to say about it, except it was very fast in straight line and it looked quite good.

If you search youtube for "seen through glass", he says the exact the same thing.

If M2 is such a driver's car, M4 shouldn't be that far off. Anyways, dont know what BMW is thinking. I would buy M4 if it actually handled like a M car of the old days.

Funny enough I think in 2016 there are probably less M2s than GT3 RSs.

What BMW did? They wanted to make a car they could sell to people that really don't drive anymore. People that grew up boosting hondas and have found their way into careers and good jobs that used to argue about trap speeds and 0-60 times in the early days of internet forums.

That's what BMW did.

In my recent experience with back pain from schlepping kids in and out of cars, forget that and either buy a 4 door (better yet something at Macan height, your back will thank you), or live with it and keep the 911. What I'm getting at is getting little ones belted into the backseat of a 2 door car will hurt just as much in a 991 as in an M2. Same deal. BTDT.

For the record I was gifted a used 911 specific booster seat that works great in all 911s, from 1965 to 991.2 ;-) Seat back is detachable and I removed it now, Kid is 5 and happy, just enough legroom.... Other kid is 9 and still comfy out back, but not for much longer...

+1. I have a 5 series for kid duty. I can take my daughter straight out of the shower and put her in brand new clothes in a clean house and carry her to the car. magically when she gets out, wherever she sat will be covered in dirt. Last weekend is was a gummy bear she sat on(she's 9 and now in the front seat sometimes) so she turned on the seat heater to make sure and melt it into the vented seat as good as she could.... I don't know how it happens but she's talented that way!

:roflmao:

Funny and true...

Did you really write the above? BMW have built avery effective car in the M2 - its actually a very good drive and not far off, in terms of performance, from a base 991.2 C2.

Personally I think BMW stepped up to the plate, took on board the feedback in relation to the M3 and M4 and as a consequence produced and excellent "entry" level M car.

Have a test drive its enlightening

I'll parallel it to the scion/Subaru BRZ. It was a really fun car to drive (no power unlike the M2) but after a lap around a track, the brakes are cooked. I like the BMW brand, my wife and I each drive cars from them. It's just that they used to never compete for drag racing specs and used to focus on a driver's car first. Now, they focus on straight line speed first (because that sells) and handling later but still don't build a car robust enough to drive to and from the track on a regular basis.

Vs Porsche. 50 Launches on a turbo S with no problem? Yes. You'd break a BMW without launch control.

Maybe 718 Cayman vs M2 instead?
 

The M2 is a modern BMW M car bargain, barely no luxury or options. It's almost reminds me to the E36 M3 in the US that didn't really have an M engine, purely marketing. At $55k loaded, it makes it hard to look at a fully loaded M4 going for $86k nowadays. The stupidest thing BMW did is not reducing the weight of the M2 as they did for the 1M. Sure the M2 "feels" light, but you can't defy physics that it weighs as much as a 4-door larger M3 at 3,505 lbs. I drove an M2, I'm impressed of the nimble "feels" due to shorter wheel base. I also owned an F80 M3 in the past, F10 M5, etc and now an X5M that's in and out of the shop (awful decision)... I would say the M2 is the purest BMW made since the E46 M3 which agrees with reviewers.

But to compare it with a base 911 that weights less than 3,153lbs + more power is not even in the same league. Even your Cab is lighter at 3,329lbs (991.2). Perhaps you like the more torque (boost), then time to switch to a 991.1. As stated above, I came from many boosted BMW Ms. I'm super happy with 991.1 GTS, never going back to another BMW.

I would compare an M2 ($55k) to a base 718 Cayman ($55k no options, track use), but never a 911. A 718 Cayman is 500lbs lighter than an M2 and now boosted with more torque. Since they're not discounting the M2, you can easily get the Cayman discounted to be $51-52k stripped version. So I suggest test driving a Cayman and would be interested to hear your feedback then. =)

I am sure M2 is a nice car. Coming from an (2X) E92 M3 but traded it for 991.1 GTS. At the end of the day, will you always resent on not buying an M2 or a 911?

Again such different price targets most people don't have to make that decision it's decided for them.

Some of us here have other 911s and the M2 is just for sh*ts and grins without the anxiety of something happening to it.

That's part of the problem there. The 2 I looked at were marked up to 65. No thanks !

No complaints so far...

Wow, I thought the 991 butt looked big, no more... the Bimmer is so tall !!!!

Lets spice up the equation a CPO C2S from 2013-2014 era or a brand new M2? Pricing should come in pretty close. (when considering BMW dealer markup) I know which I would go with :-)

Given those parameters, that's easy: the C2S.

I am actually starting to enjoy my M4 more and more as a daily driver. As a 2015, I think it was about 75K loaded up and with a small discount. If people are really considering 65K for an M2 I would say it is worth the delta to pay a little more for a M4. It has been more reliable over more miles than my GTS which was about 50K more plus 4 years of all maintenance free except tires. Don't get me wrong. The Porsche is my keeper and great car to drive. It feels fast, but I am pretty sure the M car is faster:cheers:
Jim

Actually, the base 991.1 is faster than the M4. Check out this EVO battle.

Good find, I have to say, especially if you are a Porsche driver. If you take away the turns however my butt meter says the M4 is much quicker.
J

The M4 is faster the only exception would be on a track. My wife's car is convertible BTW.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...0395eba099.png

Just the false impression the torque from the turbos give. While close i don't think the M4 is faster.

As a former M2 owner I can wholeheartedly say that I'm glad to be back in a 991.

Its simply not the same car. Had mine for 3,000kms and drove it from Ontario Canada to Hershey PA for the swap meet and sold it a week later. Too upright of a seating position, doesn't corner like a 911, and felt like I had to brake earlier than the 911's I was driving with. Never had that same uncomfortable feeling while driving my 911's. It may be a good performance sedan but its not a performer like the 911.

Don't recommend an M4 at all. Numb steering, farty exhaust, power delivery nightmare and under sorted chassis = sideways at first try to turn off nannies and have some fun. Plus it's 9" longer than a 991 and 2 inches wider, equating to 400 additional pounds. I sold mine fast ... but would consider an M2 if I had space

Neither car can stand up to a 991, other than a traction control launch on dry pavement

On price alone, how is an M2 (or even an M4) a viable alternative to the 991.2 911 Carrera?

A base 991.2 911 starts at ~90k USD, while the M2 is ~51k USD and an M4 is about $66K.

Even a fully loaded M4 doesn't approach the base price of the 911.

An M2 and a 911 might be complementary cars, but not substitutes.

I am not sure how this thread became an M4 thread. I started this thread and my comparison was with the M2.
Perhaps someone should start a M4 vs. 991 thread?
:burnout:

Great job bmw. You built a car faster around a track than an SUV.

Fully loaded m4 is 90K.

Only just barely...

Your M2 experience seems to have been similar to mine. I drove the vehicle at Thermal, CA at BMW's M track day event and the M2 was perfectly balanced in handling and power but under braked. The brakes on my vehicle were warped were shuddering under any amount of braking.

Stephen

I think these conclusions are rather glib.
I suppose if your only purpose in buying a car was to be the fastest guy from point A to point B, there might be something to the "real bargain" notion. But then you'd have to also conclude the Focus RS, a Mustang and a Corvette are "real bargains." Point is, when you limit your interest in a car to just a couple of performance qualities, there are going to be lots of better bargains than a Porsche. Nothing new.
The M2 was built as a cheap car. An entry level M car. It was designed and de tuned so that it would not violate any M4 territory. And that starts with an off the shelf engine and ends with a piss poor rear view mirror. Add to that almost no options and you end up with a car which is inexpensive to build so that it can be sold at a low price.
Porsche doesn't build any 911 cars in that way. M2 / Porsche price comparisons are apples and oranges.

I sat in my first M2 today and seating position felt odd like I was twisted with my hands on the wheels. There were a few nice deviated stitching touches but overall the interior has a very poor / cheap feel throughout. This statement is coming not in comparison to my 991.1, but to my prior 2015 Audi S3 prestige exclusive edition interior which made the M2 feel like a chevrolet cavelier. They are not competitive at all within their price range for interior quality.

I haven't driven one and can't make any comments there, but I'm just not a fan of the M2 at all.

And a fully loaded 991.2 911 is probably north of 135K.

Your point is, what exactly?

I drove m4 the last couple of weeks. It's ok. Only have little seat time in m2. It's a good compromise. But, not light enough, not nimble enough IMO.
BMW has completely lost it. If you want a $60k dollar DD that makes your hair stand up. Gt350! Picked mine up a couple of days ago. Now, that's an engine. Sure, it's heavy, brakes are good, steering is ok, clutch feel is bad. But, that engine makes up for everything.

Love the sound of the engine. However, the car has been recalled and there is no fix until spring 2017. From what I have read, I would not recommend driving the car. That's a shame because it is a glorious sounding engine.

http://autoweek.com/article/recalls/...50-and-gt350rs

In these comparisons of "nimble", i don't think nimble is the same thing as "small" i picked the M2 instead of the M3 because the M3 just felt like an old 5 series...

So i'm hoping the M2 just feels more compact and more nimble.

you can get a fine 991.2 for within 12K of the M4 and it will be above the level of the bimmer in every quantifiable way. If a person can afford a 90K car then likely they can afford the 911 all day.

It's not necessarily about affordability but comparability.

If the comparison is about which cars are better than another, then to make the comparison viable a variable like price has to be held somewhat equivalent.

If the comparison is about which car to buy given a set budget, then if both cars are within that budget price would be a trivial consideration.