verstraete

No, I did not, but a bit of background might help understand why.

I began driving sports cars, MG's, Triumphs, Healeys, etc., in the early 1960's when it was considered questionable as to whether cars with roll-up windows, instead of side curtains were "true sports cars".

When I meet my wife in 1971, she was driving a 327 Camaro convertible and introduced me to V-8 muscle cars. Since then, we have owned and enjoyed a wide variety of both sports cars and muscle cars.

We purchased a MT base 991.1 almost 4 years ago to mark my turning 70. We much enjoyed it, but missed its lack of straight line acceleration "kick in the pants" feeling. As it approached the end of its factory warranty, we were ready to trade it in. Based on unfortunate experience in the past, we will never again own a post-warranty Porsche.

We speced-out a "reasonably" equipped MT base 991.2 replacement and were ready to proceed with a custom order, when I found a MT 991.2 S with a glass sunroof as its only extra cost option available online for essentially the same MSRP as our planned base custom order.

I drove the S and loved its performance, particularly its straight line acceleration. Very, very different from that of my base 991.1. The dealer gave us a better than expected deal, including the trade-in value on our 991.1. We decided to fore-go all the comfort and convenience options we had planned for the special order 991.2 base, and go with the "stripped" S instead.

Could I have detected the performance difference between a base 991.2 or our 991.2 S? Who knows, but if I had ordered a base, instead of buying the S, I would have always wondered and probably would have never have been truly content. We are quite willing to live with 4-way non-heated seats, lack of PDLS, metallic paint, extra leather, etc..

As an added bonus, the S comes, I believe, with a mechanical limited slip differential as part of the PTV package. This should improve its performance in snow. The car will be used as a 4-season DD in NE PA, where snow is to be expected.

planet

I would also take the 4S -- and have one on order, due Dec/Jan. Those who said that 99% of us won't ever reach the limits of the car are right, but missing the point: sometimes, a car with more headroom offers a different experience when driven normally. That's what I sensed in my test drives, and why I went for the 4S. With any model, I can feel like I'm driving one of the best sports cars in the world. But with the 4S, at my level of experience and enthusiasm (which is not going to match many here, who enjoy tracking their vehicles regularly, etc.), I felt like there was a lot more on tap, and felt the most confidence in tapping into that, where and when I can. That's what sold me on the 4S.

TAL2GK

Logically, I should've taken the base. But logic wouldn't lead me to the Porsche dealership in the first place. Even factoring degrees of logic, I talked myself into an M4 as a combination of upgrade and slightly more practical than my Z4. Then I considered a 991. More car, more unique, more money. But not, historically speaking, more problems.

I drove a 991.1 base in MT and it was underwhelming. I drove the 991.2 base in PDK and it put a HUGE smile on my face. I drove the 991.2 S in PDK and it was HOLY SHlTSNACKS!

Since I'm paying ridiculous money anyway, I want the HOLY SHlTSNACKS every time I drive. Here's hoping I don't end up in jail. Or Paul Walker.

fuddman

IMO, there is a perilous sense of security buried in this comment.

The confidence that you own a car with capabilities which will safely escort you through most driving choices, eventually, even risky ones , is a trap. I think people with hot cars get hurt falling into that trap.

planet

That's a very good point. I might call it the danger of a false sense of security. IMO, if you're going to buy a car like this, you need to first appreciate your own limits as a driver -- and then approach and get to know the car carefully, over time.

BIGWORM

I love my 2017 C2S. The 4 wheel steering is a trip to get use too. But its awesome!!!

MagicRat

C4S, but I think most of us would pick the more powerful car if it were free. The point, though, is that it isn't free, and the question is whether the amount by which it isn't free is worth it for the amount it is more powerful.

subshooter

If I woke up and there were three 991.2s in the driveway, I would check to see who's house I slept at last night.

Actually, I would pass up all three 911s and take the Red Boxster S out on the country roads. There is nothing like rowing through the gears in a roadster.

....but since that was not a choice. The C4S of course.

ggreg911

This amount is relative to ones level of disposable income...

randr

The base model is a non - starter for me (personally) as I wanted PTV-E and rear axle steering - these make a significant and noticeable difference.

Throw in the brakes, power and torque differences and the S makes for a much more compelling performance package (this is to take nothing away from the 991.2 base - which is clearly a big improvement on the 991.1 base).

For some perspective

The 991 GT3RS makes an average of 386HP in the range 4000rpm to 8700rpm
The 991.2S makes an average of 374HP in the range 4000rpm to 7500rpm
The 991 GTS makes an average of 342HP in the range 4000rpm to 7700rpm
The 991.1 S makes an average of 337HP in the range 4000rpm to 7700rpm

Its fairly easy to tease out a conclusion

As an after thought, the journos tend to be reasonably good at gross scale observations but generally poor at the detail and verging on the unreliable in terms of comparisons.

Or to put it another way, the new S is a big move up on previous models and has clear benefits over the base model.

kayjh

All of what your write is true. I think the point some the reviewers are making about this is that if you are looking for more power but delivered as closely as possible to a naturally aspirated engine, the base car does that better. As others have written, if you want more power, the S is the way to go, but as the reviewers write, the power delivery will be less naturally aspirated like and more turbo like. So, if you get an S, it will behave more like a turbo than last year's 991.1. Some of the reviewers preferred the naturally aspirated feel, others, like you just want more power and don't care so much about how the power is delivered. Everyone makes their own call.

As to the other "performance handling" goodies on the S. Most reviews I've read have said that the RWS system is barely discernible by a race car driver test, never mind for street use. If you feel the difference, that is great.

I drove a car with it and without it and I couldn't feel a difference on a 30 minute test drive of cars with and without the sport pack. I thought both S cars I drove handled great.

The good news is there is no bad choice in 2017 in the 991 lineup.

stephen k

I've driven a .2 base and a S model with pdk back to back and the difference in power is there but you cant notice the bigger brakes on the streets or on a test drive ; the S I drove didn't have any sport pack options.

The Base model has a more seamless delivery of power as the rpms builds. It's hard to tell unless you look for it or if you jab on and off the throttle. European Car Mag is right in that sense. The base is an all around well rounded vehicle and for those who really don't like Turbocharged cars this will be the perfect transition car.

When you get on the throttle on the S there is less than 1 sec delay and a huge thrust of power comes on as the car builds rpms. The turbos spool very quickly and the power comes on harder and stronger than the base in rpms 2.5-redline but the boost is more noticeable. The level of sensation during power delivery is unexpected for a s model. It actually feels really fast.

People are a little naive to think that brakes and power are the biggest sell points on the S model because they forget about the options to add for the overall cost of vehicle, spasm, sport package, and when you go for a ECU tune on a base to match a S it will have more of the power delivery characteristics of a S but without the warranty.

Personally I wanted a bunch of appearance options on my S and my vehicle came out the be a $132 car without PDK and Sport pack. I'm one of the few that don't care for pdcc, rws, and sport chrono but need a manual. If I had done the same thing to a base minus the spasm option it would have been a $120 car. Then you get into the idea of why spend $120 on a base when you can get lightly option S? Goes on and on.. Honestly just get the car you want who cares about the rest.

Stephen

randr

For a bit of fun I looked up "Journalist" in the Mori Veracity Index - they are one of the least trusted professions out there

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchp...d-bankers.aspx

Lets think about this:

(1) go and have a look at the published engine torque and HP curves.

(2) You will see from 1700rpm to 5000rpm the base has 450Nm of torque and the "curve" is a flat line. Peak HP is 370HP at ~6500rpm

(3) Now, look at the "curve" for the S. You will see peak torque of 500Nm is delivered between 1700rpm and 5000rpm. Peak HP is 420HP at 6500rpm.

A flat line on a torque curve equates to linear HP delivery - thus both cars deliver the available HP in a linear fashion between 1700rpm and 5000rpm and also have peak HP at the same rpm.

(4) The car that produces the most torque and thereby has the highest average HP will accelerate more quickly than a car with less peak torque, same shaped curve and same mass.

(5) So, I would conclude the journo is talking out of his bottom

The rear axle steering is more noticeable at low speed where it lends an agility to parking and other low speed manoeuvres. At high speed it is invisible but very effective e.g. it has the effect of lengthening the wheel base in a very controlled way which is equivalent to making the car more "mid-engined".

As an afterthought, the secret to good turbo power delivery is how the taper is managed and controlled. In the case of the 991.2 (both base and S) its clear the taper is well managed e.g. gentle drop off in torque to the red line which is a respectable 7500rpm. Also boost levels are well managed e.g. 13psi and 16psi - this is mild boost for a 3l six cylinder DFI engine. Porsche engineers know what they are doing.

Agreed, there are no poor models in the 991.2 line up - only lots of choice, which is great

ace37

A flat line in the torque curve is also an ECU limited torque output rather than a mechanical limit. I'm curious how close the two would be after an ECU reflash on both.

I'd probably take the 4S, but I'd strongly prefer a 2S or TT over it. I actually had ordered a 2S and switched it to a TT.

I think a lightly equipped base C2 is a real sweet spot in the current range and a great car. I also think the S is nicer. Diminishing returns... a great measure of our finances and willingness to part with our money.

Gary JR

Base no question. Don't need no stinkin vectoring and controls.