991.2 GTS'es are coming as 2017 MY, 3.0L tt
11-17-2016, 02:03 AM
#271
Rennlist Member
Forgive me fellas if this has already been posted (think you guys may have been a bit too busy debating GTS S GT3 
) but I found this over in the 991 GT3 thread about new 991.2 Performance Pack posted by user Chris3963:
"German 991 configurator now includes a Performance pack for the Carrera S.
Performance Carrera S. Note: Available from 06/2017 at the earliest
Performance increase to 331 kW (450 hp). Includes a larger exhaust gas turbocharger, modified brake cooling, sport exhaust system with 2 centered tailpipes in independent design, Sport Chrono package including dynamic engine mount, optimized engine control as well as a new engine room styling with titanium cover and carbon inlays
Obviously, this is just the precursor to the GTS and validates what I reported from my "cleaning lady" source back in March: 450hp, turbo, etc."
) but I found this over in the 991 GT3 thread about new 991.2 Performance Pack posted by user Chris3963: "German 991 configurator now includes a Performance pack for the Carrera S.
Performance Carrera S. Note: Available from 06/2017 at the earliest
Performance increase to 331 kW (450 hp). Includes a larger exhaust gas turbocharger, modified brake cooling, sport exhaust system with 2 centered tailpipes in independent design, Sport Chrono package including dynamic engine mount, optimized engine control as well as a new engine room styling with titanium cover and carbon inlays
Obviously, this is just the precursor to the GTS and validates what I reported from my "cleaning lady" source back in March: 450hp, turbo, etc."
Last edited by bluehorseshoe; 11-17-2016 at 02:32 AM.
11-17-2016, 04:55 AM
#272
Rennlist Member
Getting back to one of the original purposes of this thread, when do you all think the .2 GTS will be available? Clearly there won't be a MY 2017 GTS, as the powerkit will only become available June of 2017 (at the earliest).
How much of a delay after that until the .2 GTS is available? 6 months, a year?
How much of a delay after that until the .2 GTS is available? 6 months, a year?
11-17-2016, 08:06 AM
#273
Drifting
If you mean in terms of custom made or made to order then yeah I get what you're saying, but in the BMW world (previous M3's) and I'm assuming GT Porsche models they mean an engine not shared throughout the lineup. I.e. the old M3 v8 was "bespoke to that car". So in that meaning, what other car will share the 9A2 engine? The 718 are already going with 4 cylinders, the SUV's and panameras have V type engines.
Ditto GT cars within Porsche; where the 993s all shared a 3.6 liter 282hp motor, the RS got a 3.8 liter 300hp motor. Where the 996 Porsches all used the M96 3.6, the GT3 used a totally different motor, essentially a 3.8 liter water-jacketed version of the old M64, with a 9000 rpm redline and 380hp compared to 325 for the 3.6 in the rest of the line. And so on.
The 991 Carrera line shared a 3.4 and 3.8 liter versions of the 9A1. The GT3 and RS used a highly modified version of that motor that revved much higher, used an exotic titanium drivetrain, etc. Unavailable outside of the relatively tiny GT-division production.
And to that point, the GT4 did not use a bespoke engine, making do instead with a slightly detuned version of the 9A1 found in the Carrera S. Much like the M1 and M2 have always used essentially unchanged versions of production motors from the mainstream 1 and 2 series line, vs. the bespoke engines in the M3 and M5.
So no, the 991.2 9A2, no matter how good it is, cannot by definition be "bespoke"; it is the "regular production engine." Only if it is further refined into a special engine exclusively built for the GT3 will it become bespoke, meaning created exclusively for that individual line.
11-17-2016, 08:12 AM
#274
Racer
"Drifting" is correct...GTS is a great car.......I drove my 1989 for 26 years and NEVER thought about its value or how collectible it was....I just enjoyed it......... I now enjoy its cousin........ Sit back and smell the roses (which is alcantera and leather)......enjoy what you have.......
11-17-2016, 10:59 AM
#275
Originally Posted by NoGaBiker
The M engines were bespoke because they were created exclusively for the M3, M5, M6, etc. The rest of the 3 series, 5 series and 6 series made do with more pedestrian engines, but small production runs of hand-assembled hipo engines were created exclusively for M cars.
Ditto GT cars within Porsche; where the 993s all shared a 3.6 liter 282hp motor, the RS got a 3.8 liter 300hp motor. Where the 996 Porsches all used the M96 3.6, the GT3 used a totally different motor, essentially a 3.8 liter water-jacketed version of the old M64, with a 9000 rpm redline and 380hp compared to 325 for the 3.6 in the rest of the line. And so on.
The 991 Carrera line shared a 3.4 and 3.8 liter versions of the 9A1. The GT3 and RS used a highly modified version of that motor that revved much higher, used an exotic titanium drivetrain, etc. Unavailable outside of the relatively tiny GT-division production.
And to that point, the GT4 did not use a bespoke engine, making do instead with a slightly detuned version of the 9A1 found in the Carrera S. Much like the M1 and M2 have always used essentially unchanged versions of production motors from the mainstream 1 and 2 series line, vs. the bespoke engines in the M3 and M5.
So no, the 991.2 9A2, no matter how good it is, cannot by definition be "bespoke"; it is the "regular production engine." Only if it is further refined into a special engine exclusively built for the GT3 will it become bespoke, meaning created exclusively for that individual line.
Ditto GT cars within Porsche; where the 993s all shared a 3.6 liter 282hp motor, the RS got a 3.8 liter 300hp motor. Where the 996 Porsches all used the M96 3.6, the GT3 used a totally different motor, essentially a 3.8 liter water-jacketed version of the old M64, with a 9000 rpm redline and 380hp compared to 325 for the 3.6 in the rest of the line. And so on.
The 991 Carrera line shared a 3.4 and 3.8 liter versions of the 9A1. The GT3 and RS used a highly modified version of that motor that revved much higher, used an exotic titanium drivetrain, etc. Unavailable outside of the relatively tiny GT-division production.
And to that point, the GT4 did not use a bespoke engine, making do instead with a slightly detuned version of the 9A1 found in the Carrera S. Much like the M1 and M2 have always used essentially unchanged versions of production motors from the mainstream 1 and 2 series line, vs. the bespoke engines in the M3 and M5.
So no, the 991.2 9A2, no matter how good it is, cannot by definition be "bespoke"; it is the "regular production engine." Only if it is further refined into a special engine exclusively built for the GT3 will it become bespoke, meaning created exclusively for that individual line.
I have no irons in this as I have neither GTS or .2
11-17-2016, 11:10 AM
#276
Drifting
Alas, that's all academic as the X51 could be gotten on any 991S. However, it's still a bit of a bespoke motor given the relatively small number of them ever made vs. non X51s. So a case could be made; but I still say that since it's not exclusive to the model, it's not bespoke.
But, on the other hand, the changes to the X51 are great and are very expensive; not just slapping a different intake and exhaust on and getting 6 more hp, like I had on my 2004 Boxster SE 550; Regular Boxster S was 258, SE was 264hp. No internals to the engine were different, so even though there was a small production run of slightly different motors, it was in no way bespoke. Whereas the changes to the X51 9A1 are substantial, internal, expensive, and effective.
So I dunno. I could go either way.
I'll look you up when we pick up our car in Atlanta at performance center next summer. Plan to head to my dad's place up by springer mountain.
11-17-2016, 08:41 PM
#278
Instructor
Hey Drifting, I know we have beaten this up pretty good, and your last comment made lots of sense to me, but, take a look at these used GTS coupes and GT3s for sale and tel me what you think. I was going to try and configure the GT3s to find the spread from MSRP but the configurator is gone. The delta between asking price and MSRP looks to be very similar. What do you think?
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-custo...list.ipl?cid=1
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-custo...ails.ipl?cid=1
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-custo...list.ipl?cid=1
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-custo...ails.ipl?cid=1
11-17-2016, 08:51 PM
#279
Three Wheelin'
Hey Drifting, I know we have beaten this up pretty good, and your last comment made lots of sense to me, but, take a look at these used GTS coupes and GT3s for sale and tel me what you think. I was going to try and configure the GT3s to find the spread from MSRP but the configurator is gone. The delta between asking price and MSRP looks to be very similar. What do you think?
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-custo...list.ipl?cid=1
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-custo...ails.ipl?cid=1
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-custo...list.ipl?cid=1
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-custo...ails.ipl?cid=1
11-17-2016, 08:53 PM
#280
Instructor
11-17-2016, 08:54 PM
#281
Three Wheelin'
11-17-2016, 09:31 PM
#283
Drifting
Get the link you want copied. Open a new message. Click the little icon in the middle of the toolbar above the box you type the message in. The icon is a globe with a chain link or something under it. Paste your link into it. Voila! It's a hyperlink in your post.
If you want to post a picture do everything the same except use the icon just to the right of the hyperlink icon, the yellow box with mountains and a sun in it.
If you want to post a picture do everything the same except use the icon just to the right of the hyperlink icon, the yellow box with mountains and a sun in it.
11-17-2016, 09:57 PM
#284
Instructor
11-17-2016, 10:13 PM
#285
Three Wheelin'