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5,000 miles in, I'm 50-75% happy with TechArt springs, and this is after the improvement that came with a DSC V3 controller for the PASM.
The springs leave the car a bit too low for my tastes (it looks lowered rather than "right"), and while their progressive rates soften the ride most of the time, the higher rates as the springs compress confuse PASM (which is designed to work with straight rates) and result in "pogo" motions over certain bumps. It's a 3-5% of the time problem, but annoying nonetheless. I also feel the handling has been degraded too much for the aesthetics, though this is probably mostly the function of the lack of a bump steer kit (which should be standard with aftermarket lowering springs).
So, I'd like to be up a smidge (0.25 to 0.50 inch) with straight rate springs. If I had it to do over again, I'd consider the Eibachs but would almost certainly do the H&Rs on adjustable perches available on TireRack. Would've been an extra $300 in parts, but so much of the cost of lowering a car is the labor. I've reached out to an aftermarket supplier that I've been impressed with in the past, to see if they want to collaborate on a package for all of us with 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS with standard PASM on the loop, and it sounds like they are interested. I'm happy to loan my car for said development.
For my taste, I prefer the stock look with constant tire/fender gap all around the tire. Can’t imagine living with the additional scraping of a lowered car. But that’s just me.
For my taste, I prefer the stock look with constant tire/fender gap all around the tire. Can’t imagine living with the additional scraping of a lowered car. But that’s just me.
Have yet to scrape the bumper or spoiler lip. Key: The optional nose-lift system.
GT4 didn't need it as the black lip was a wear item, and even then I only "needed" to replace it once in 14,000 miles. And that one wasn't as bad. Problem with lowered Carreras is the exposed paint. Nose lift eliminates the problem—but I really wouldn't like the TechArts without it.
"For my taste, I prefer the stock look with constant tire/fender gap all around the tire. Can’t imagine living with the additional scraping of a lowered car. But that’s just me."
__________________
I do have to agree with the scraping experience(s). I have a mild drop with Techart springs, and really like how the car looks and drives. I do, however, experience an increase in scraping at the front lip. I just drive very slowly, and angled, up and down most driveways.
All is good on the open roads . . . . . .
[QUOTE=stout;15624866]5,000 miles in, I'm 50-75% happy with TechArt springs, and this is after the improvement that came with a DSC V3 controller for the PASM.
The springs leave the car a bit too low for my tastes (it looks lowered rather than "right"), and while their progressive rates soften the ride most of the time, the higher rates as the springs compress confuse PASM (which is designed to work with straight rates) and result in "pogo" motions over certain bumps. It's a 3-5% of the time problem, but annoying nonetheless. I also feel the handling has been degraded too much for the aesthetics, though this is probably mostly the function of the lack of a bump steer kit (which should be standard with aftermarket lowering springs).
So, I'd like to be up a smidge (0.25 to 0.50 inch) with straight rate springs. If I had it to do over again, I'd consider the Eibachs but would almost certainly do the H&Rs on adjustable perches available on TireRack. Would've been an extra $300 in parts, but so much of the cost of lowering a car is the labor. I've reached out to an aftermarket supplier that I've been impressed with in the past, to see if they want to collaborate on a package for all of us with 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS with standard PASM on the loop, and it sounds like they are interested. I'm happy to loan my car for said development.
The car before springs, "on set" for a video.
Two questions
1. How happy were you percentage wise with the factory spring setup prior to installing the Techart springs ?
2. Can you please explain how the ride improved with DSC V3 controller ?
1. How happy were you percentage wise with the factory spring setup prior to installing the Techart springs ?
Dynamically/mechanically, 100% (on the street). I am sure it would still have been a bit soft on the track, but this car won't do many track days.
Aesthetically, 20%. I'm a bit of a hot-rodder at heart, and while driving dynamics > everything else, the way a car looks is still part of its appeal for me—I want to enjoy looking at it and fender gaps look like glaring visual compromises to me. I wish it weren't so, but it is.
The potential pitfalls when lowering a car are obvious (ride, clearance, handling, bump steer, etc), but I've owned a couple that rode and handled either about the same or better after being lowered. Two only, actually. A couple of the others were worsened, and I would say this is one of them despite my hopes and various feedback I saw going in. But, and this is a big "but": I have a "bit" of a damper fetish, and my bar has been set ridiculously high after so many great cars from Porsche—and a handful of aftermarket cars—so I'm an extreme case. Out of all of the aftermarket cars I have tested over the years, I can probably count on one or two hands the cars that truly worked as well as or better than the factory setup. Maybe three hands. So I would put the % at less than 10% of those cars, and most were from 3-4 shops with people who have the gift of the book smarts when it comes to chassis setup and the "touch" or black art of chassis setup. It's a very small group when it comes to road cars. I have reached out to one of those individuals to see if he wants to collaborate on a go-to spring setup for all of these 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS cars with the standard PASM setup. One that allows adjustable ride height without spending much more than you would on a set of lowering springs. We'll see—no promises, as it's only an idea—but I will keep people posted.
Can you please explain how the ride improved with DSC V3 controller ?
Dampers seem smarter/quicker reacting and better able to control the oscillations introduced by bumps. DSC quelled about 80% of my annoyance with pogo over large bumps on the freeway (bridge abutments, i.e.), which itself was a 3-5% of the time annoyance. For most, I think DSC + TechArt is a very good combo if they want to be as low as my car is. The car looks great 100% of the time, still handles well, and rides better 80+% of the time due to the softer initial spring rate. But I'd rather raise the car a bit on straight-rate springs that are compatible with PASM.
I'm also interested in a bump-steer kit and, possibly, a rear ARB.
Just my two cents after 12,000~ miles in stock 991.2 Carreras and 5,000~ miles on this setup. It's very good as aftermarket setups go, but I've been spoiled by brilliant.
I'm interested Pete! My plan was to swap out to OEM sport PASM springs to drop 10mm. But the sport PASM dampners are also a different part#, and if they are required it starts getting expensive.
Dynamically/mechanically, 100% (on the street). I am sure it would still have been a bit soft on the track, but this car won't do many track days.
Aesthetically, 20%. I'm a bit of a hot-rodder at heart, and while driving dynamics > everything else, the way a car looks is still part of its appeal for me—I want to enjoy looking at it and fender gaps look like glaring visual compromises to me. I wish it weren't so, but it is.
The potential pitfalls when lowering a car are obvious (ride, clearance, handling, bump steer, etc), but I've owned a couple that rode and handled either about the same or better after being lowered. Two only, actually. A couple of the others were worsened, and I would say this is one of them despite my hopes and various feedback I saw going in. But, and this is a big "but": I have a "bit" of a damper fetish, and my bar has been set ridiculously high after so many great cars from Porsche—and a handful of aftermarket cars—so I'm an extreme case. Out of all of the aftermarket cars I have tested over the years, I can probably count on one or two hands the cars that truly worked as well as or better than the factory setup. Maybe three hands. So I would put the % at less than 10% of those cars, and most were from 3-4 shops with people who have the gift of the book smarts when it comes to chassis setup and the "touch" or black art of chassis setup. It's a very small group when it comes to road cars. I have reached out to one of those individuals to see if he wants to collaborate on a go-to spring setup for all of these 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS cars with the standard PASM setup. One that allows adjustable ride height without spending much more than you would on a set of lowering springs. We'll see—no promises, as it's only an idea—but I will keep people posted.
Dampers seem smarter/quicker reacting and better able to control the oscillations introduced by bumps. DSC quelled about 80% of my annoyance with pogo over large bumps on the freeway (bridge abutments, i.e.), which itself was a 3-5% of the time annoyance. For most, I think DSC + TechArt is a very good combo if they want to be as low as my car is. The car looks great 100% of the time, still handles well, and rides better 80+% of the time due to the softer initial spring rate. But I'd rather raise the car a bit on straight-rate springs that are compatible with PASM.
I'm also interested in a bump-steer kit and, possibly, a rear ARB.
Just my two cents after 12,000~ miles in stock 991.2 Carreras and 5,000~ miles on this setup. It's very good as aftermarket setups go, but I've been spoiled by brilliant.
Thanks for the reply.
Another question for you.
Did you reset your ride height sensors to zero with the DCS and have you changed any of the factory settings in the DCS unit ?
5,000 miles in, I'm 50-75% happy with TechArt springs, and this is after the improvement that came with a DSC V3 controller for the PASM.
The springs leave the car a bit too low for my tastes (it looks lowered rather than "right"), and while their progressive rates soften the ride most of the time, the higher rates as the springs compress confuse PASM (which is designed to work with straight rates) and result in "pogo" motions over certain bumps. It's a 3-5% of the time problem, but annoying nonetheless. I also feel the handling has been degraded too much for the aesthetics, though this is probably mostly the function of the lack of a bump steer kit (which should be standard with aftermarket lowering springs).
So, I'd like to be up a smidge (0.25 to 0.50 inch) with straight rate springs. If I had it to do over again, I'd consider the Eibachs but would almost certainly do the H&Rs on adjustable perches available on TireRack. Would've been an extra $300 in parts, but so much of the cost of lowering a car is the labor. I've reached out to an aftermarket supplier that I've been impressed with in the past, to see if they want to collaborate on a package for all of us with 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS with standard PASM on the loop, and it sounds like they are interested. I'm happy to loan my car for said development.
The car before springs, "on set" for a video.
With TechArt springs...
i appreciate that honest feedback about the springs. The “pogo” or crash is what I, personally, would try to avoid in this car. Even though it can be just a few times,you are correct, it is annoying. I am considering lowering my car, but haven’t gathered enough feedback from users on the best solution. Ive been looking at Bilstein coilovers, or just do a complete H&R spring and strut replacement. I had that setup on one of my old S4s and it was superb. I’m extremely picky and very specific on how something should be. It’s hard to get that just right look, from a suspension. Has anyone looked into adjustable height springs? I have a set of ABT HAS on my Audi S5, and they are specifically dialed in for my car. There is no “pogo” effect, and the ride quality is exactly like OEM. Yes, it’s that good. Thinking out loud, but I may reach out to ABT and ask about their HAS kit and availability for the 911. Curious if others have tried the KW HAS or something else.
5,000 miles in, I'm 50-75% happy with TechArt springs, and this is after the improvement that came with a DSC V3 controller for the PASM.
The springs leave the car a bit too low for my tastes (it looks lowered rather than "right"), and while their progressive rates soften the ride most of the time, the higher rates as the springs compress confuse PASM (which is designed to work with straight rates) and result in "pogo" motions over certain bumps. It's a 3-5% of the time problem, but annoying nonetheless. I also feel the handling has been degraded too much for the aesthetics, though this is probably mostly the function of the lack of a bump steer kit (which should be standard with aftermarket lowering springs).
So, I'd like to be up a smidge (0.25 to 0.50 inch) with straight rate springs. If I had it to do over again, I'd consider the Eibachs but would almost certainly do the H&Rs on adjustable perches available on TireRack. Would've been an extra $300 in parts, but so much of the cost of lowering a car is the labor. I've reached out to an aftermarket supplier that I've been impressed with in the past, to see if they want to collaborate on a package for all of us with 991.2 Carrera/S/GTS with standard PASM on the loop, and it sounds like they are interested. I'm happy to loan my car for said development.
Thanks for the honest review Pete, I have been contemplating Tech Art springs but am concerned that most overlook the negative effects of springs because they are so enamored with the looks. I love the way the base rides and I don't track my car but would like a little less "wheel gap" but not at the sacrifice of the incredible job Porsche did with the ride on this car. You can add my name to the list of interested parties with regard to the boldened part of your post.
Originally Posted by awrryan
Huge fan of my ohlins road and track coil overs. Stout: sent you a PM
I've thought of this setup, I have Ohlins on my Polestar wagon and quite honestly the ride is much rougher than my C2. How does the Ohlins setup for the C2 compare to stock with regard to ride? Any input you could offer is greatly appreciated.
02-08-2019, 05:46 AM
