Drifting

no offense, but in a gated community in central florida, I would assume that majority of nice cars are driven by older people in general.

Your point is valid however, in that with the 991 generation the 911 became just a nice powerful luxury car that happens to have its engine in the rear. It's not a really a sports car anymore.

You don't see old ladies driving manual air-cooled 911s. or even 996/997s.

fast1

Your point is valid however, in that with the 991 generation the 911 became just a nice powerful luxury car that happens to have its engine in the rear. It's not a really a sports car anymore.

I would expect that the majority of posters on this forum are enthusiasts, but even here there seems to be relatively little resistance to the introduction of turbo technology on the 991.2. So for the mainstream Porsche buyer, I expect that the turbo Porsche will be well received for the reasons cited in this thread.

From a track perspective, I have two problems with turbos: turbo lag and power reductions from heat when the car is pushed hard. Neither of these problems will affect the vast majority of 991.2 buyers.

Archimedes

You mean the 991, the car that turned a faster Ring time than any of the prior non-turbo/GT 911s and faster than the brand new GT4 that everyone thinks is the best sports car ever made? You mean that car is not a sports car anymore?

Please, this 'the 991 is a big bloated GT car now' is such absolute nonsense. A lot of people parroting the same inaccurate overgeneralization over and over until people start believing it as truth.

917k

+1 I for one am glad the OP is consolidating the reviews. People get way too **** on this.

Ernesto Schmitt

^this.
+1

917k

Great point. But interesting to note that George Kacher, a reviewer w/ decades of experience in driving Porsches of all types, was somewhat qualified in his comments about the 991.2 - I can't recall the last time that "CAR" gave a 911 4/5 stars.

Quote:

CAR's George Kacher:"But sometimes we regretted not being in a somewhat simpler, more old-school 991.1 GTS. And that's telling."

Drifting

I apologize to others on this board, my previous post was not meant to disparage the 991 911 which is an excellent luxury sport sedan.

In response to archimedes----Ring time is not the sole measure of sports cars driven primarily for personal enjoyment. The GTS Nismo is much faster than the 991 on the ring, but its like driving a video game but requires no real understanding of how to drive or manage the steering, brakes, and weight of a car.

The 991 is faster than the 997 for one reason (one of the two reasons that robbed it of its sport car title and of its joy). The reason for the improved ring time was that the 991 wheelbase was made 4 inches longer and 2 inches wider compared to the 997. A much bigger platform for the wheels makes the car much more stable, just like a Lamborghini is stable because it is enormous. So yeah, the Ring time went up, but enjoyment went down.

No one is measuring my time into work, I don't race for a living, but I measure how much I enjoy driving my cars.

Every inch Porsche adds the the 991 wheelbase removes road and handling feel, which are essential to day to day driving pleasure, and both of which have always been better in a 911 than in any comparable car. The second of the two things in the 991 911 is electric steering which is much worse that the 997 hydraulic version for feedback and road feel, and again 911 steering has been a hallmark of perfection in the automotive industry for decades...until the 991.

You can say I'm parroting the reviewers, but why do 80% of the reviewers say the same thing, I wonder?
More importantly, I've been racing all types of cars for years, having passed through multiple racing schools and hundreds of hours on the track. Racing teaches you how to evaluate handling, steering, and what the weight of a given car is doing in any given corner, what the steering is telling me when driving any car, and how much of my cars weight is on any of my tire in any corner.

So if you drive a 991 and a 997 back to back, and those steering, feedback, and handling differences aren't obvious to you, then unfortunately you are just an average joe driver, which is why you can't distinguish these differences.

Again, the 991 911 is a fabulous luxury sports sedan that anyone should be proud to own and drive, but its no longer what a 911 used to be, a sports car first.

Archimedes

Again, pure nonsense. Enjoyment is subjective. As an owner of an old 911 (78SC) and two new ones, the new ones are light years better as pure sports cars. Each generation, including the 991 has outperformed the prior generation and been a more sporting driving experience. What you call enjoyment is your perspective, not facts. You sound like all the other curmudgeons who think the only real sports cars weigh under 2500 lbs, have manual transmissions and no radio, in which case, enjoy living the 1970s.

And I didn't say you were parroting reviewers, I was referring to all the idiots who make decisions based on spec sheet rather than actually driving the cars. As I've said before, if the 991 is good enough for Tiff, it should be good enough for us mortals.

And that last part, you're right, it's not what it used to be. It's better in every way, including pure performance, which is what a sports car is all about.

Archimedes

I was referring to the 991.1, not the .2.

Archimedes

Yes, but an equally skilled driver in a 991 will leave the 997 in its wake. But the 997 is the better sports car...

Drifting

If a sports car is only about performance, then why aren't you driving a Nissan GTR or viper ACR? Both can be had much cheaper than a 991.1 or .2 and both will smoke any 991 on any track.

True that enjoyment is subjective, just some of us have more tuned senses than others. I don't begrudge you having your own opinion on what you enjoy, but don't assume your perspective is better than everyone else, particularly those who do this for a living. (not me, I refer to professional drivers and professional car journalists, the vast majority of which have made similar comments to my last post).

I hope I'm not considered an old codger, and I missed most of the 70s, as I'm only 37. I enjoy my stereo and my AC. You can't stereotype everyone so easily.

But seriously, if "pure performance" is the only thing its about, then why don't you drive a GTR, ACR, or Z06?

Chris3963

I came to 911 party late. A 991.1 was my first 911. I had driven earlier Porsches but only in small doses.

Since joining the 991 party, I have jumped in boots and all with multiple track days and driving courses. I attended 4 multi day driving courses in Leipzig alone this year.

On one of the recent track days I had my first chance to jump in a 997 and give it some serious stick. I was shocked at how agricultural it felt. It understeered and had poor front axle grip. You simply could not drive it through a corner at the same speed as a 991. To me it was frustrating, not fun. Back in the 991, it felt sharper, quicker...more fun.

So anybody who says the 991 is not a sports car has rocks in their head. But that's only my opinion.

elitex

Lol @ calling 991 a Luxury sports sedan. You lost your credibility right there.

I've owned both realms a BMW 550i and a SRT Viper.

Go drive a luxury sports sedan and then you'll know what a luxury sports sedan feels like.

Ernesto Schmitt

Well said.

STG

There is a HUGE difference between personal opinions and FACTS! Some people have a hard time distinguishing between the two.