Reserve your 991 DSC module
10-29-2016, 08:31 AM
#196
10-30-2016, 12:38 PM
#197
Rennlist Member
I agree that the DSC module is a good improvement over the OEM PASM module. But, if you truly want to transform the handling, as opposed to making the car more comfortable in normal mode, you might consider adding their adjustable anti-sway/stabilizer bars. These bars cost about $1,700. Installation is somewhat time-consuming for the front, simple for the rear. The front includes new drop links and heim/rose joints; the rear uses the OEM links and joints. There are a few caveats, which I will get to, but overall I am thrilled with these adjustable bars. The GTS becomes significantly more responsive, and both the overall sense of the steering feel and its directness seem improved to at least some degree that I believe is noticeable. Please note, I am not trying to say that the 991's electro-mechanical steering suddenly becomes as good as earlier 911s with hydraulic power or unassisted steering.
The caveats regarding the bars, in my personal opinion:
1. The suspension, in normal setting, is much tauter than OEM normal, though still compliant. My car has PASM, not SPASM. I would not recommend these adjustable bars, unless you plan track or autocross use for the car. I have not driven a SPASM equipped 991 with these adjustable bars, so bear that in mind.
2. I had to loosen the rear bar and wrap it in padded tape to keep it from nearly constantly hitting the aluminum cross member. Once that was done, there is no noise at all coming from the rear bar.
3. The four heim/rose joints that are shipped with the bars (for the front) I think could be of better, more substantial quality. I swapped these out, but the new ones cost about an additional $250. I also recommend getting the rubber boots for the front.
With the changes I made the new bars are absolutely quiet at all times. The combination of the DSC and the adjustable bars moves the GTS in the direction of the GT3, according to guys who have driven 991 GT3's as well as my car. Personally, I cannot say, as I have not yet driven any 991 GT3. I know there are still many differences between these two cars. The best way for me to describe this DSC/adjustable anti-sway bars change is to say that it makes my 991 more fun to drive at lower speeds, as well as more thrilling closer to its performance edge at track levels. It has made me more acutely aware of the dry performance limitations of the P Zero (N0) original equipment tires. Now this car needs more tire, even at my very ordinary skill level.
I hope this helps some people evaluate some of the options available for the 991.1 cars. I also have re-programmed the maps with the Cobb Access Port, which I highly recommend as well, for everyone. I have the happy advantage of available 93 Octane fuel, so I can utilize Cobb's 93 Octane, Stage 1. I'm also planning to have FabSpeed do a final pro tune on this (I also have the FabSpeed X-pipe exhaust change). I would love to be able to try the Cobb 100 Octane maps by using the Octane boost additive, but the need for engine reliability and longevity prevents me from daring to try this.
The caveats regarding the bars, in my personal opinion:
1. The suspension, in normal setting, is much tauter than OEM normal, though still compliant. My car has PASM, not SPASM. I would not recommend these adjustable bars, unless you plan track or autocross use for the car. I have not driven a SPASM equipped 991 with these adjustable bars, so bear that in mind.
2. I had to loosen the rear bar and wrap it in padded tape to keep it from nearly constantly hitting the aluminum cross member. Once that was done, there is no noise at all coming from the rear bar.
3. The four heim/rose joints that are shipped with the bars (for the front) I think could be of better, more substantial quality. I swapped these out, but the new ones cost about an additional $250. I also recommend getting the rubber boots for the front.
With the changes I made the new bars are absolutely quiet at all times. The combination of the DSC and the adjustable bars moves the GTS in the direction of the GT3, according to guys who have driven 991 GT3's as well as my car. Personally, I cannot say, as I have not yet driven any 991 GT3. I know there are still many differences between these two cars. The best way for me to describe this DSC/adjustable anti-sway bars change is to say that it makes my 991 more fun to drive at lower speeds, as well as more thrilling closer to its performance edge at track levels. It has made me more acutely aware of the dry performance limitations of the P Zero (N0) original equipment tires. Now this car needs more tire, even at my very ordinary skill level.
I hope this helps some people evaluate some of the options available for the 991.1 cars. I also have re-programmed the maps with the Cobb Access Port, which I highly recommend as well, for everyone. I have the happy advantage of available 93 Octane fuel, so I can utilize Cobb's 93 Octane, Stage 1. I'm also planning to have FabSpeed do a final pro tune on this (I also have the FabSpeed X-pipe exhaust change). I would love to be able to try the Cobb 100 Octane maps by using the Octane boost additive, but the need for engine reliability and longevity prevents me from daring to try this.
11-01-2016, 01:40 PM
#198
Drifting
Can you share some info on what you used as a replacement for the TPC droplinks? Interested in learning more, I have this setup as well so very interested in any potential improvements. Thanks!
11-05-2016, 11:43 AM
#199
So looks like I'm the latest to join the DSC train. Had the module installed yesterday by the nice people at Parr Motorsports in Crawley. I have to say - wow, what an extraordinary thing it is. The car feels absolutely glued to the road now, and even more so in sport mode (which is now comfortable enough to use all day).
The main difference I've noticed is on turn-in. I used to feel I had to trail brake to get the nose to bite how I wanted it to, but now it turns in on steady throttle like it's a mid-engined car, and still has the rear-engined grip coming out. A tiny bit of me had always found the handling of my old Boxster more intuitive than the GTS's, but not any more. Also, the steering seems to weight up better mid-corner and give more feedback.
There's a lot more feel in general, yet bumps seem to upset the car less. I should say that I have PDCC, so some of the improvement might be because the DSC system starts working before the PDCC bars would be felt. I like the comfort of PDCC, and the flat feel if I really chuck the car about, but I felt there was always something slightly unknowable about it - like I wasn't completely sure how much grip there was (but since this was always 'loads' it wasn't too much of a problem!). Now I fel I know exactly what's happening with all four contact patches.
Re this, the only slight negative I've noticed is some more vibration when going in a straight line. One can really feel the road surface, but maybe one doesn't always want to? Parr said they thought this was because of the dynamic engine mounts' having been stiffened, and that we could dial it back, but some of the tautness in bends might be lost. I'm going to live with it for a bit and see how it is.
Any more thoughts on this appreciated. My main thought is that everyone who's serious about going fast should look into this thing. Hard to believe Porsche left so much on the table suspension-wise. I guess maybe there are going to be little 'enhancements' done every year for a while without anyone having to do anything expensive like design a new shock. Nice to have the fast-foward option anyway!
The main difference I've noticed is on turn-in. I used to feel I had to trail brake to get the nose to bite how I wanted it to, but now it turns in on steady throttle like it's a mid-engined car, and still has the rear-engined grip coming out. A tiny bit of me had always found the handling of my old Boxster more intuitive than the GTS's, but not any more. Also, the steering seems to weight up better mid-corner and give more feedback.
There's a lot more feel in general, yet bumps seem to upset the car less. I should say that I have PDCC, so some of the improvement might be because the DSC system starts working before the PDCC bars would be felt. I like the comfort of PDCC, and the flat feel if I really chuck the car about, but I felt there was always something slightly unknowable about it - like I wasn't completely sure how much grip there was (but since this was always 'loads' it wasn't too much of a problem!). Now I fel I know exactly what's happening with all four contact patches.
Re this, the only slight negative I've noticed is some more vibration when going in a straight line. One can really feel the road surface, but maybe one doesn't always want to? Parr said they thought this was because of the dynamic engine mounts' having been stiffened, and that we could dial it back, but some of the tautness in bends might be lost. I'm going to live with it for a bit and see how it is.
Any more thoughts on this appreciated. My main thought is that everyone who's serious about going fast should look into this thing. Hard to believe Porsche left so much on the table suspension-wise. I guess maybe there are going to be little 'enhancements' done every year for a while without anyone having to do anything expensive like design a new shock. Nice to have the fast-foward option anyway!
Sorry to bother you with my questions :
How is your experience with dsc after almost a year? Especially regarding the only negative that you did point out : "the only slight negative I've noticed is some more vibration when going in a straight line"?
Did you use a customized map?
11-15-2016, 06:12 AM
#200
I have a 991 Turbo S and the ride can be a little crashy over road joints etc.. I also live out of town, so drive on less than perfect roads, some UK counrty roads.
Would this be a good upgrade? I will track occasionally but 95% fast road.
Would this be a good upgrade? I will track occasionally but 95% fast road.
11-15-2016, 07:21 AM
#201
Rennlist Member
11-17-2016, 12:56 AM
#202
Rennlist Member
How would this affect say an '13 Carrera S with Sports PASM setup? I see tons of folks who have gotten this and have the regular PASM setup and say it has improved the handling and ride but none so far differentiated as to whether they had SPASM on their cars???
11-17-2016, 05:41 AM
#203
Hi MagicRat, dsc V2 is probably my next mod. I have a coupe GTS4, with SPASM and PDCC.
Sorry to bother you with my questions :
How is your experience with dsc after almost a year? Especially regarding the only negative that you did point out : "the only slight negative I've noticed is some more vibration when going in a straight line"?
Did you use a customized map?
Sorry to bother you with my questions :
How is your experience with dsc after almost a year? Especially regarding the only negative that you did point out : "the only slight negative I've noticed is some more vibration when going in a straight line"?
Did you use a customized map?
11-17-2016, 08:56 AM
#205
Just seen this, and tbh until I did I'd completely forgotten that vibration was ever an issue. That said I have switched to MPSS tyres, which certainly have a plusher feel new than the P0s did old. Car feels great and I'd recommend the DSC without hesitation. I use the standard maps.
11-17-2016, 11:47 AM
#206
Rennlist Member
same dampers/shocks and PASM controller as a PASM equipped car.
PASM dynamically adjusts the dampers valving in order to change its compression and rebound, DSC takes the adjustment of that to a higher,
and customizable, level... allowing it to do things such as, stiffen the
compression of the front shocks when the car brakes, thus reducing nose
dive, or stiffening the 'outer' shocks when a car is cornering, thus reducing
roll to the outside of the corner (as PDCC does by hydraulic adjustment
of the the ARB/sway bar linkage)...
in short, PASM, and DSC makes the response of your suspension adjust
to the road conditions and dynamics of the car.
If you drive your car like a soccer mom in a minivan then you probably
wont benefit from DSC, but if you drive your car at all spirited, then you
will notice an improvement in its responses...
Also note, especially for PASM-S, cars, with a higher spring rate than PASM,
if you find your "normal" street experience unsatisfactory due to the
stiffness of the suspension, DSC can reduce the aggressiveness of the
effective spring rate of the car to make your daily ride smoother so your
(mr my) latte does not spill!
11-17-2016, 12:39 PM
#207
I have also done this. Made a massive difference to turn-in and has got rid of some understeer. I can feel the back of the car in corners now, which is lovely.
11-17-2016, 01:00 PM
#208
exactly what I am trying to achieve plus a bit more steering feel. Would you mind sharing your camber and toe in set up values?
05-01-2017, 12:45 PM
#209
is there a particular reason why you don't recommend to upgrade to B16 without upgrading the mounts and camber plates?
Larry,
You are mostly correct, except DSC is compatible with the entire damptronic range (comprising of B4, B6, B8, and B16 if I recall correctly). We typically recommend the B8, as we feel they are the best "value" damper to upgrade. The B16s do offer better performance, but for their price with camber plates (it would be ill-advised to upgrade to the B16s without upgrading the mounts/camber plates) they begin to approach the price of the Tractives, which are fare better in quality, durability, and performance.
JRZ have made some teaser announcements on an electronic shock - I believe the system will be different from PASM entirely in that it will just feature a g-sensor and allow for semi-active adjustments. The KW works similar to this I believe as well. The KW shocks aren't compatible with DSC (I'm not sure whether or not JRZs will be), because they are not designed to respond to the control signals DSC constantly sends to the damper. Again, at this point this is really all speculation at this point, as I' not too familiar with either of these systems.
Regarding 991 GT3, there are some DSC units for the GT3 out there (however, not as many as there are for Carreras, 981s, and GT4s). I believe I've seen some reviews from GT3 owners floating around the forums somewhere, but it certainly doesn't have the same presence in that community right now as our other communities.
You are mostly correct, except DSC is compatible with the entire damptronic range (comprising of B4, B6, B8, and B16 if I recall correctly). We typically recommend the B8, as we feel they are the best "value" damper to upgrade. The B16s do offer better performance, but for their price with camber plates (it would be ill-advised to upgrade to the B16s without upgrading the mounts/camber plates) they begin to approach the price of the Tractives, which are fare better in quality, durability, and performance.
JRZ have made some teaser announcements on an electronic shock - I believe the system will be different from PASM entirely in that it will just feature a g-sensor and allow for semi-active adjustments. The KW works similar to this I believe as well. The KW shocks aren't compatible with DSC (I'm not sure whether or not JRZs will be), because they are not designed to respond to the control signals DSC constantly sends to the damper. Again, at this point this is really all speculation at this point, as I' not too familiar with either of these systems.
Regarding 991 GT3, there are some DSC units for the GT3 out there (however, not as many as there are for Carreras, 981s, and GT4s). I believe I've seen some reviews from GT3 owners floating around the forums somewhere, but it certainly doesn't have the same presence in that community right now as our other communities.
05-01-2017, 12:47 PM
#210
is there a particular reason why you don't recommend to upgrade to B16 without upgrading the mounts and camber plates?
[QUOTE=DSC Sport;13632297]Larry,
You are mostly correct, except DSC is compatible with the entire damptronic range (comprising of B4, B6, B8, and B16 if I recall correctly). We typically recommend the B8, as we feel they are the best "value" damper to upgrade. The B16s do offer better performance, but for their price with camber plates (it would be ill-advised to upgrade to the B16s without upgrading the mounts/camber plates) they begin to approach the price of the Tractives, which are fare better in quality, durability, and performance.
[QUOTE=DSC Sport;13632297]Larry,
You are mostly correct, except DSC is compatible with the entire damptronic range (comprising of B4, B6, B8, and B16 if I recall correctly). We typically recommend the B8, as we feel they are the best "value" damper to upgrade. The B16s do offer better performance, but for their price with camber plates (it would be ill-advised to upgrade to the B16s without upgrading the mounts/camber plates) they begin to approach the price of the Tractives, which are fare better in quality, durability, and performance.
