991.2 9A2 engine vs 9A1 technical analysis
09-13-2015, 04:22 PM
#46
Drifting
Why don't you just go and test drive a M4 yourself? Or better yet, wait for the 991.2 to arrive next year and try it out yourself. Not sure how exactly you expect me to "duplicate" when these cars aren't even being sold yet.
Or maybe, just enjoy your current car as it is, instead of spending so much time on discussing cars that doesn't even interest you nor plan to own...
Or maybe, just enjoy your current car as it is, instead of spending so much time on discussing cars that doesn't even interest you nor plan to own...
And why are you telling me not to spend so much time on cars that don't interest me, nor plan to own? How do you know what I plan to own or what interest me? That's really rich coming from you since you have admitted not even owning a 911 of any kind, yet here you are on the 991 board thrashing away at the people that do own one.
09-13-2015, 04:33 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Dude, I don't know what your problem is. Maybe your meds are not balanced correctly. Why are you commenting on a post I deleted because it was a duplicate post? Any how did the M4 get thrown into this?
And why are you telling me not to spend so much time on cars that don't interest me, nor plan to own? How do you know what I plan to own or what interest me? That's really rich coming from you since you have admitted not even owning a 911 of any kind, yet here you are on the 991 board thrashing away at the people that do own one.
And why are you telling me not to spend so much time on cars that don't interest me, nor plan to own? How do you know what I plan to own or what interest me? That's really rich coming from you since you have admitted not even owning a 911 of any kind, yet here you are on the 991 board thrashing away at the people that do own one.
Perhaps check on your own meds maybe. None of my posts are targeted toward you, but you seem to take it more personally than anyone else here, while contributing the least to the technical discussion (there is reason I don't bother to post in threads on the exhaust sound, with just some low quality youtube video to base on...)
And you said it yourself, you are not really in the market for the 991.2. So let me ask you, why does it matter for you to ask in the first place whether or not I currently own a 991.1??? I never once tried to compare the old car to the new, but rather simply pointing out some the information on the new cars that people seems to ignore on this forum...
Anyway, some of you guys, not all, but some, seems to get their panty in a bunch way too easily, especially when it comes to any comparison between the .2 and the .1, whatever is the cause of that...I don't have the time to figure that out for you...
09-13-2015, 04:37 PM
#48
Race Director
991.2 9A2 engine vs 9A1 technical analysis
Originally Posted by cloud9blue
None of my posts are targeted toward you, but you seem to take it more personally than anyone else here, while contributing the least to the discussion. Just saying...
09-13-2015, 04:45 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
I was actually glad you didn't post in thread initially, since I was having a quality and mature discussion with Petevb. But it looks like the quality of this thread is going into the gutter, all thanks to you, as in the case with all the 991.2 threads you post in...
I think I am done here on this thread if you insist on making your pointless posts. They aren't even as funny as you think they are...
09-13-2015, 04:47 PM
#50
As it is often the case of these online "technical discussion", one is confusing boost threshold with actual turbo lag. As it is stated in the C&D article, lags are only noticeable if you are lugging the engine at low rpms, where the engine doesn't generate enough exhaust gas volume to spool up the turbine quickly enough. So your own conclusion isn't correct.
If you are driving the car at +5000rpms, like you would with 9A1 engine under spirited condition, the turbo lag will be virtually nonexistent. Test it out yourself with any modern performance turbocharged engine, if you don't believe me... In all honesty, the drive-by-wire throttle in these modern cars will probably cause more throttle lag...
If you are driving the car at +5000rpms, like you would with 9A1 engine under spirited condition, the turbo lag will be virtually nonexistent. Test it out yourself with any modern performance turbocharged engine, if you don't believe me... In all honesty, the drive-by-wire throttle in these modern cars will probably cause more throttle lag...
Jim
09-13-2015, 04:49 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
I think this is the crux of the issue Cloud9. I have thought a lot about these turbo vs NA discussions as I drive my M4 and compare it with my NA 997S. When the RPMs are at 3-5K and the turbos are spooled the power is ferocious and mostly continuous and I imagine would be very fun on a track (though I haven't taken it yet) The problem, and issue, is getting from 0 to 3K RPMs. This is where you will always feel the difference between tt and NA.
Jim
Jim
And decide for yourself, which is better, or both is just as good in their own way.The performance of average sports car are getting to the point of being completely pointless for street use. You really need to take them to the track to find out what they can really do.
09-13-2015, 04:52 PM
#52
Drifting
Gezzz, I thought you asked to "duplicate" and prove what I just said on a car that isn't even released in the market yet. Simple misunderstanding due to your vague post. No need to get all sensitive over here.
Perhaps check on your own meds maybe. None of my posts are targeted toward you, but you seem to take it more personally than anyone else here, while contributing the least to the technical discussion (there is reason I don't bother to post in threads on the exhaust sound, with just some low quality youtube video to base on...)
And you said it yourself, you are not really in the market for the 991.2. So let me ask you, why does it matter for you to ask in the first place whether or not I currently own a 991.1??? I never once tried to compare the old car to the new, but rather simply pointing out some the information on the new cars that people seems to ignore on this forum...
Anyway, some of you guys, not all, but some, seems to get their panty in a bunch way too easily, especially when it comes to any comparison between the .2 and the .1, whatever is the cause of that...I don't have the time to figure that out for you...
Perhaps check on your own meds maybe. None of my posts are targeted toward you, but you seem to take it more personally than anyone else here, while contributing the least to the technical discussion (there is reason I don't bother to post in threads on the exhaust sound, with just some low quality youtube video to base on...)
And you said it yourself, you are not really in the market for the 991.2. So let me ask you, why does it matter for you to ask in the first place whether or not I currently own a 991.1??? I never once tried to compare the old car to the new, but rather simply pointing out some the information on the new cars that people seems to ignore on this forum...
Anyway, some of you guys, not all, but some, seems to get their panty in a bunch way too easily, especially when it comes to any comparison between the .2 and the .1, whatever is the cause of that...I don't have the time to figure that out for you...
Regarding the videos on exhaust sound, I agree that it is hard to tell what the car is going to sound like from those. However, it is reasonable for someone to comment that they don't think it sounds good on the video that was posted as an example of the sound, or do you prefer only those comments on the same video stating that it sounds good.
09-13-2015, 04:55 PM
#53
Drifting
I think this is the crux of the issue Cloud9. I have thought a lot about these turbo vs NA discussions as I drive my M4 and compare it with my NA 997S. When the RPMs are at 3-5K and the turbos are spooled the power is ferocious and mostly continuous and I imagine would be very fun on a track (though I haven't taken it yet) The problem, and issue, is getting from 0 to 3K RPMs. This is where you will always feel the difference between tt and NA.
Jim
Jim
09-13-2015, 05:00 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
LOL, and once again, very rich coming from you. The only reason I have responded to your drivel is because of the attacks on people that have stated they are completely happy with the NA engine in their 991, and prefer it to a turbo engine. How about for a personal attack you calling 991 owners that prefer their car and engine as being "bitter because their toy is not the latest and greatest"?
Regarding the videos on exhaust sound, I agree that it is hard to tell what the car is going to sound like from those. However, it is reasonable for someone to comment that they don't think it sounds good on the video that was posted as an example of the sound, or do you prefer only those comments on the same video stating that it sounds good.
Regarding the videos on exhaust sound, I agree that it is hard to tell what the car is going to sound like from those. However, it is reasonable for someone to comment that they don't think it sounds good on the video that was posted as an example of the sound, or do you prefer only those comments on the same video stating that it sounds good.
Great post - I love this type of technical analysis. It's amazing how many magazines/reviews skip over this stuff to regurgitate Posche press releases. Thanks.
I would say the the new engine is designed for/takes the 911 even further down the GT cruiser track. It prioritizes low-rpm torque over high end power and responsiveness. This is what most GT buyers like on the street.
Think about it - this engine is another piece of the puzzle bringing the 991 closer to a MB SL class two door - smooth ride, automatic transmissions, power when you want it like a light switch, don't have to think/work to drive it. Opposite of a purist/enthusiast type car. Not that low-down torque isn't enjoyable to drive on the street.
Maybe it's so close to the 9A1 to enable it to live on in the GTS in NA form without excessive cost.
I would say the the new engine is designed for/takes the 911 even further down the GT cruiser track. It prioritizes low-rpm torque over high end power and responsiveness. This is what most GT buyers like on the street.
Think about it - this engine is another piece of the puzzle bringing the 991 closer to a MB SL class two door - smooth ride, automatic transmissions, power when you want it like a light switch, don't have to think/work to drive it. Opposite of a purist/enthusiast type car. Not that low-down torque isn't enjoyable to drive on the street.
Maybe it's so close to the 9A1 to enable it to live on in the GTS in NA form without excessive cost.
Incredible write up. Nice job! These are becoming more and more street focused cars. Good luck on the track.
At least the Porsche GT Division gets it:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/ne...911-gt3-specs/
At least the Porsche GT Division gets it:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/ne...911-gt3-specs/
Last edited by cloud9blue; 09-13-2015 at 05:15 PM.
09-13-2015, 05:17 PM
#55
Drifting
09-13-2015, 05:23 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
09-13-2015, 05:24 PM
#57
Drifting
Being happy and enthusiastic about your own car is one thing, but being a clueless fanboy is another thing. Please tell me which category the following posts on the first page belongs in. The fact still stands I was in no way targeting you or STG911, but you guys just seem to be the most butthurt bunch to actually take a personal stance against me. I am happy to argue as long as you want if you want to talk technical, but if you prefer personal attacks and homoerotic posts like STG911, lol, I don't think I find that enjoyable to continue this on any further
And lol at you bringing on your experience with the 2.0T engine in your wife's A4 and think it translate to the Porsche 3.0L engines. The only one here that can comment on the pro and cons of each engine is 96redLT4, with his M4 and 997.
And lol at you bringing on your experience with the 2.0T engine in your wife's A4 and think it translate to the Porsche 3.0L engines. The only one here that can comment on the pro and cons of each engine is 96redLT4, with his M4 and 997.
09-13-2015, 05:44 PM
#58
Racer
3 seconds turbo lag @ 2000 RPM with a CLOSED throttle
Unless you are coasting with your foot off the pedal then the throttle won't be fully closed (as per the line being quoted from the C&D article).
There should be more exhaust flow from running with the throttle partially open to produce the power required to keep the vehicle moving at 1800 RPM (overcoming aerodynamic drag and mechanical losses) even if the car is loafing along at this low an engine speed in a higher gear, thus the exhaust turbine may have enough flow to be producing enough power to have some boost on the inlet compression side.
So my guess is that when driving normally that the throttle lag will be nowhere near that bad in terms of these stated times to produce full torque.
There should be more exhaust flow from running with the throttle partially open to produce the power required to keep the vehicle moving at 1800 RPM (overcoming aerodynamic drag and mechanical losses) even if the car is loafing along at this low an engine speed in a higher gear, thus the exhaust turbine may have enough flow to be producing enough power to have some boost on the inlet compression side.
So my guess is that when driving normally that the throttle lag will be nowhere near that bad in terms of these stated times to produce full torque.
09-13-2015, 05:48 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Now you are calling people "clueless fanboys" and yet you say you don't make personal attacks. And I never compared my wife's A4 engine to the 3.0 liter 991.2 engine. In fact, I even acknowledged that it was a 4 cyl engine. I was simply stating that my experience with that engine was similar to what the poster said about the M4 engine having turbo lag at lower engine speeds that was noticeable. And you call other people sensitive?
Anyway, if you have nothing to contribute to original discussion, I am done replying to you.
09-13-2015, 05:53 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Unless you are coasting with your foot off the pedal then the throttle won't be fully closed (as per the line being quoted from the C&D article).
There should be more exhaust flow from running with the throttle partially open to produce the power required to keep the vehicle moving at 1800 RPM (overcoming aerodynamic drag and mechanical losses) even if the car is loafing along at this low an engine speed in a higher gear.
So my guess is that when driving normally that the throttle lag will be nowhere near that bad in terms of these stated times to produce full torque.
There should be more exhaust flow from running with the throttle partially open to produce the power required to keep the vehicle moving at 1800 RPM (overcoming aerodynamic drag and mechanical losses) even if the car is loafing along at this low an engine speed in a higher gear.
So my guess is that when driving normally that the throttle lag will be nowhere near that bad in terms of these stated times to produce full torque.
These aren't giant single turbo running 30psi after all...
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