When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Cables are probably the easiest to do these tests with. As far as my system, the samples were run through both my Lavry Gold and Weiss studio convertors which were about as good as there was at the time. The differences in the recorded signal were small no matter what cables I used. I find tests like the phono cartridge one you mentioned to be pretty useful and yes, you can hear the differences. There are several for mics and pre amps as well, but very few high resolution audio clips for cables (or cones) that I've been able to find. I know this is way off topic so sorry about that. I'm with the original poster on upgrading the Bose, just not sure I would bother with new wiring, especially in a car.
Whew . . . you guys are making my brain hurt you are all so smart.
And here I was so excited that my Bose Surround Sound was almost as impressive as the Vibrasonic I installed in my '57 Ford in 1966
I had a party one time, playing music for a bunch of people, about half audiophile buds, half Porsche friends. Caelin Gabriel http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatur...in/caelin.html was there and demo'd some power cords for us. Every single person there not only easily heard the differences when we changed cords, but most of them (and all the Porsche people) were really surprised at how easy it was and how big the differences were. I've done similar comparisons with lots of people and components over the years. I've even had a couple people with hearing aids who were shocked to realize they too could hear these things. In fact the ability to hear these things is so common I'm inclined to believe that if you're not getting it, its not your ears, its your system.
But how is this any different from what would have happened if you had invited any other parlor magician to your party? Have you seen what a good stage hypnotist (or revival preacher) can do?
If the test wasn't properly blinded -- and no, that doesn't mean somebody's wife walked into the room and asked what changed -- then it's impossible to use it to say anything definitive about the equipment being tested.
If there were any other way, the drug companies would be all over it. Nobody hates blind testing more than they do, because strictly-controlled blind testing is difficult, expensive, time-consuming, and only makes it slightly easier to get at the real truth.
Cables are probably the easiest to do these tests with. As far as my system, the samples were run through both my Lavry Gold and Weiss studio convertors which were about as good as there was at the time. The differences in the recorded signal were small no matter what cables I used. I find tests like the phono cartridge one you mentioned to be pretty useful and yes, you can hear the differences. There are several for mics and pre amps as well, but very few high resolution audio clips for cables (or cones) that I've been able to find. I know this is way off topic so sorry about that. I'm with the original poster on upgrading the Bose, just not sure I would bother with new wiring, especially in a car.
I'm just not sure I would bother with any of this stuff in a car! Its a horrible environment dominated by hard reflective surfaces, noisy as hell, impossible to ever get right because you're sitting way off center- and then on top of all that if you somehow do get it right your reward is entrancing music that draws you in… distracting you from the one thing you're there to be doing in the first place: driving! Its borderline insanity! Especially considering you can do a whole lot better sound wise with an iPod and a pair of Sure SE-535's.
But lots of people do it anyway. So they might as well at least do it right.
Wire in a system is huge, every bit as important as any other component. In cars though its very hard to audition. Measurements are useless, an absolute waste of time. The only way to know is to listen. Audition. But doing this in a car is near impossible.
That's why the one wire I suggest checking and upgrading is the power supply going to the amps. Because cars run on 12v not 110v like at home, even though the car system requires just as much power (read, current) as the home system, the power supply wire must be several times larger diameter to carry that load.
There are worksheets one can use to determine the required gauge. The last system I did called for 4 gauge, nearly as large as car battery cables- and that was for about a fourth the power of the Burmester system. In reality both Burmester and Bose are well into the range where a lot of pro installers would start using auxiliary battery and charging systems when the goal is a true high end system.
Not that that's what I'm recommending. I'm just trying to help everyone understand the importance of wire and just how much room for improvement there is even with a very good factory system.
Any chance you could provided a step-by-step for the tweeter switch out?
Thanks from us all.
D
I don't know about a step-by step, but here is some more detail on grille removal.
I like using string laced thru the vents (at least 3 lacings worth) to pull the grilles up. It keeps one from putting pry marks in their dash.
Keep in mind, only the 2 forward clips by the windshield will release.
Target the top inside clip first.
Once it is up put blue tape down on the dash feeding into the grille opening.
You may need to use a hotel card key or other pry tool to work the top outside clip loose.
Once it is up put more blue tape down on the dash and into the grille opening.
The bottom rear clip, closest to you, won't budge and don't try to pop it yet.
Now you need to pull the dash vent.
To get to it, first pop off the trim just below it.
A plastic hotel key works well as a soft pry tool.
Just be careful not to scuff the dash leather.
With the trim off, you can just pull the dash vent out.
Grab it from the side and pull it out, it takes some force.
Then undo the sensor wire.
With that out, you can see the plastic air duct.
Pull it down so you can see the bottom of that grille clip.
You will see, the air duct has 2 rubber grommets retaining it to the dash above.
With the duct down, you will see the prongs on the grille clip, that are keeping it from releasing.
Get someone to use string and/or a pry tool to keep gentle pulling force, on the grille, from the top.
Then squeeze the prongs on that clip with some long needle nose pliers.
The grille will pop out after that.
The air duct can be snapped back into place, after the grille is released.
Just make sure both rubber grommets (from the air duct) re-engage.
One grommet is further in and harder to see.
That is it really.
Maybe if someone local wants to do this, I can assist them and then more pics can get posted.
Or, if someone gives it a try, they can add some more comments.
DC Resistance: 4.0 Ohms / 3.5 Ohms
Size: 5" / 5"
Surround: Foam / Rubber
Basket: Sheet / Cast
Magnet: Small / Large
Price: $164 / $525
Take comfort knowing the Bose Sub is not adding any weight to your car.
The Burmester is a brick by comparison.
Although, I expected a fancier speaker for $525, I am glad to see the Burmester has good old fashioned Spade Terminals, to make wiring connections easier.
I'll find out soon, if the Bose amp can drive it or if I will need to add an aftermarket amp.
That pic tells the entire story by itself including the difference in weight.
Many, many years ago when I was maybe 10 I was with my father and we were at a audio shop in town. He told me to pick up a home audio speaker, I can't remember the brand and then told me to pick up a JBL speaker of similar size and it was twice as heavy. He smiled and told me heavy means more expensive and better quality. Of course there are exceptions in life but when it comes to audio products, it's always true.
I don't understand what this "Car Play" is. So I did some research, and apparently it's "CarPlay" and IOS only as far as I could find. Secondly, it doesn't appear to be supported by Porsche. Unless you're referring to something else? Maybe a linkie would be helpful...
Yes, CarPlay is Apple technology to allow your car system to display information from your iPhone. (Apps have to be specially adapted for it, however.) The Android version is called Android Auto (not to be confused with Google Car). Neither is currently supported by Porsche, although Volkswagen has announced that it will support both. (The car system just needs a small "stack" running on it to interface with the phone.)
Alpine and Pioneer have aftermarket systems available that support CarPlay. I'm not sure if anyone has an aftermarket system supporting Android Auto yet, but they are probably coming, and future Alpine and Pioneer systems, at least, will probably support both. I don't know how well the Alpine or Pioneer systems would fit into a Porsche.
Settings had to change to:
Bass: -1, Treble: -1, Surround: On & Linear: Off.
No booster amp will be needed, the Bose Sub Amp powers it fine.
Got a couple hours listening to it and it's beyond amazing, for what it is.
I'll follow up with more details later....
Edit: Update on Settings;
Bass: +4*, Treble: -1, Surround: OFF & Linear: ON.
This seems to clean up the boomy mid-bass and makes vocals sound much more natural.
Although it may not have the same initial punch, it is more plesant to listen to over long periods of time.
I can't go back to the old settings now.
Bass needs to vary a bit, depending on content, but all other settings should be kept for optimum vocal clarity.
Last edited by lunarx; 06-07-2015 at 04:21 PM.
Reason: Added Part# & Revised Settings
The sub was a bit of a pain to R&R, but no big deal, if you are determined and don't trust anyone else to do it.
Removal was under 1hour.
Install, was a bit longer, to deal with wiring.
His sequence of steps was exactly right.
I will only add that; you need to loosen the lower dash (1 side & 2 bottom screws), to get the right airbag screw out. If needed, you can get more play, from the lower dash panel, by poping loose some retaining clips, below the gauges, (after removing the trim strips).
After that, there is a plastic piece, at the leading edge of it, that needs to also be removed.
For this it's just one torx screw removed and then it just pulls out.
Pull straight back on it.
Also, I decided to just pull the lower air duct, all the way out, to make more room to work.
I was able to plug into the existing Bose Sub Amp (using my "custom" adapter harness) and the Bose Sub Amp handled it fine.
The sound settings (above post #55) were key in sending enough low frequency signal to the sub, as there was almost no bass with Linear ON.
I don't know that you "need" a complete speaker swap, I think the Sub and Tweeter were all that needed to change.
Although expensive, this Burmester Sub must be custom designed to work in the 911's dash cavity.
I don't see how else it could work as well as it does.
It's far superior to the old Bose Sub.
It plays to its advantage of a small and light cone, as you can experience a crisp little shock wave on percussion instruments.
It also extends fairly low for for such a small driver.
It won't rattle the neighborhood apart, but it sounds great at reasonable listening levels.
Burmester really did an amazing job designing that Sub Driver.
Hats off to Bose too, as the system is solid and was just handicapped by low end Tweeters and Sub.
It had enough amp power and adjustability to work with these upgraded drivers.
If you think about the 991 system, you have off-axis tweeters bouncing sound off the windshield, off-axis mids firing into your thigh and door woofers trying to generate mid-bass lows, without proper dampening.
The sub was probably the only speaker system done right, although it had a major size restriction.
In the end, I don't think it's possible to get much better, outside of a major system overhaul.
This was only a $1K investment, uses factory parts and the result is what one would expect from a high end car.
Truthfully, it exceeded my expectations
Last edited by lunarx; 06-07-2015 at 04:22 PM.
Reason: added more info on loosening lower dash panel
lunarx, quite impressive. If you no longer need the Bose sub, I'd be very glad to inherit it from you....(?) My 991S has the base audio, without a sub. I wonder if I can either add the Bose sub or perhaps use its enclosure to mount a different sub - like robbieracer had done. A while back I had a PM exchange with him, where he thought it'd be doable. So, I'm considering adding the sub, along with a small amp to drive it, perhaps. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks.
Although expensive, this Burmester Sub must be custom designed to work in the 911's dash cavity.
I don't see how else it could work as well as it does.
It's far superior to the old Bose Sub.
It plays to its advantage of a small and light cone, as you can experience a crisp little shock wave on percussion instruments. It also extends fairly low for for such a small driver.
It won't rattle the neighborhood apart, but it sounds great at reasonable listening levels.
Burmester really did an amazing job designing that Sub Driver.
Hats off to Bose too, as the system is solid and was just handicapped by low end Tweeters and Sub.
It had enough amp power and adjustability to work with these upgraded drivers.
If you think about the 991 system, you have off-axis tweeters bouncing sound off the windshield, off-axis mids firing into your thigh and door woofers trying to generate mid-bass lows, without proper dampening.
The sub was probably the only speaker system done right, although it had a major size restriction.
In the end, I don't think it's possible to get much better, outside of a major system overhaul.
This was only a $1K investment, uses factory parts and the result is what one would expect from a high end car.
Truthfully, it exceeded my expectations
Well done. And thanks again for the photos. They show why the two drivers perform so differently. Bose uses a small magnet and voice coil to drive a cone mounted in a huge foam surround. The small magnet can't very well control a cone that size. The cone falls behind on transients, overshoots on impulses, resulting in wooly bass. Burmester uses a much larger magnet and voice coil. Not only larger, more powerful. The giveaway is the vent screen on the pole piece to improve cooling at high power output. This is the way to get powerful tuneful accurate bass. People don't usually describe bass response as "crisp" but I get it when you use that word. Its that much faster than Bose.
This is what gives music its drive and energy, what gets you tapping your foot. You'll get even more of that with Burmesters midrange drivers. The midrange after all is where its at. But its also the one area that Bose did, uh, a whole lot less bad than the rest. So you are probably right, your bang for the buck factor might not be quite as high.
As you've done so far I seriously doubt there's anything else you could have tried that would work so well for the money. Especially considering it was all bolt-in with no car mods needed. And again, terrific write-up. Thanks!
01-10-2015, 11:31 AM
Its a horrible environment dominated by hard reflective surfaces, noisy as hell, impossible to ever get right because you're sitting way off center- and then on top of all that if you somehow do get it right your reward is entrancing music that draws you in… distracting you from the one thing you're there to be doing in the first place: driving! Its borderline insanity! Especially considering you can do a whole lot better sound wise with an iPod and a pair of Sure SE-535's.
