Hammer911

As noted, I did do some pre-work in terms of watching some videos, looking at the map. Going off the track for me was a mental mistake, loss of focus, nothing more. Would need a "mental traction control" button to fix that! The real problem would have been to compound that error trying in vain to make physical corrections that simply were not going to work.

I agree that the 30 minute run sessions are a few minutes too long for me as well. Hard to imagine how the Le Mans guys keep their head in it for a couple hours or more at a time in all sorts of weather and darkness!

Given my nature, I will indeed wash my car before the next track session.

Hope to see you around sometime!

Porsche Jeff

I have never tracked any of my P cars. I have been to the Porsche Sports Driving School however. Does anyone know will they allow a cabrio to be tracked at these DE events, or only a coupe?

LexVan

Yes, you can DE a cabriolet at PCA events.

Dalema

Great write up. Thanks for sharing the experience!

jlanka

thanks for the comments also chuck.

chuck911

You're welcome. And JamesKen, always wash your car before every event, rain or shine.

Cuda911

EXCELLENT write-up! Thank you, a great story. Sounded about 99% similar to my experience.

And, there really is no correct way of writing other than using the Oxford (serial) comma. Bugs the crap out of me when writers don't use 'em.

handful

Bob...what a great write up. I even had butter flies in my stomach.

chuck911

There's a good lesson in Hammer's going off- he drove off. Of course we all want to stay on the road. But sometimes its just not happening. When that time comes the best course is to drive off. Look where you want to go and go there. Drive it. Own it. Because, as bad as that may be, if you are going off anyway then it only gets worse doing it sideways where you risk catching a rim and rolling. Keep the shiny side up. Drive it home at the end of the day. All that matters.

Well, that testa rossa avatar ain't bad neither….

handful

Without knowing the limits of your car, you'll never know your own limits.

sc8526

Great write up. It really brought back a memory that I'll share re: a 4W off track of my own.

After 2-3 sessions with what I'd categorize as step-level improvements I went for a ride with my instructor (his 991c2) to get a better feel of what the car was truly capable of. I realized then that I was treating my car like its Honda accord stablemate it shares a garage with! I never dreamed I could drive that far into a corner before mashing the retina-detach pedal. Short story - I gained confidence with the car on that ride...but my next session's first corner reinforced that the car had more courage than the idiot (me) behind the wheel! I barreled into hard right at the end of Putnam Park's straight - and though the car may have had the whoa in its rotors/tires, I clearly didn't have the guts to stay with plan that I'd already committed to. Result was a runoff into a very safe grassy area with sufficient space for a few choice 4-letter self reminders of why I have different job Monday-Friday.

End game - and very much in line with comments from pretty much all others, I got a quick reminder that speed will always live within the car's ability - but the driver (me) needed a much slower introduction to the confidence it would take to turn RockStar laps.

Any chance you took a few laps with a pro? As my instructor reminded - "this is for entertainment only, pay zero attention to his technique, lines, or points on the track." Rather than a long-winded description of that ride, suffice to say his advice was spot-on.

chuck911

Uh, I am going to give your instructor the benefit of the doubt and assume you heard him wrong.

Technique, lines and points on the track is pretty much exactly what you should be paying attention to!

In fact, every properly run Driver Ed event will have the track clearly marked with cones providing visual reference points for braking, turn-in, apex and track-out. This is the one big difference between a truly educational event and some group that rents out a track so a bunch of guys can drive fast without a ticket.

The way its supposed to work, the braking cones provide a visual reference for when to start braking. If you brake at the first braking cone and it winds up being too early then next time you start braking a bit later. Same braking only later. Braking is always done in as straight a line as possible, at the end of which you come off the brakes and turn in. Should be a turn-in cone to mark this point for novices learning the track. From turn-in the car should track a pretty much constant radius turn to the apex. From the apex you can begin rolling on throttle letting the radius widen some until the car is clear at the other side of the track, the track-out cone.

Obviously not all events are run to the same educational standards. I sure didn't spot these cones on the video uhear posted, for example. Couple turns had braking cones, that was it. But this is why I try and refer to Driver Ed or DE or PCA and not just "track". "Track" could mean anything.

Here's a video of Don Kitch talking a student around a lap of Pacific Raceway in Kent, WA. Notice every turn is marked with turn-in, apex, and track-out cones, and all the higher speed ones also have multiple braking marker cones. There are also some cones placed right out on the track, which he is able to use because he runs a very small class and everyone is at the same level. But if this were a PCA DE event all the other cones would be there. Running a quality educational program without them is very difficult. Lines and points on the track are everything!

John's 991

I have to disagree with the level of importance given to cones. Especially as you gain more experience.

I agree that reference points are critical, and cones are useful and should be used at DE and other educational events. However, I think that students need to find other, more permanent, reference points to use than cones, which get knocked over during the day and may not be at the same place the next time you are there.

Things like paint marks, trees, seams in the pavement, etc. are less likely to disappear or move than a cone. I am sure many of us have seen somebody go off track because their braking or turn in cone was not there. In addition, because cones are so highly visible, it can become easy to drive from cone to cone, instead of practicing proper visual technique.

In any case, it is great to see folks taking their car to the track and really learning how to drive it. It is amazing how capable a car that you can drive straight off the lot can be, not to mention how much fun it is to drive!

shaytun

This is a very helpful thread. A couple of questions:
1. How much wear on tire and brakes does this take since you're using your own car? How about the oil? Does that need to be changed much earlier?
2. What do you do for insurance if it's your own car? I assume unless you get some additional insurance, your regular insurance company wouldn't cover you?

chuck911

If you follow the advice I've posted on your other thread and start with Driver Skills then there really is no need to see any greater wear and tear than you would normally get anyway just from having fun on the street. Maybe a little, not much. Oil, not at all.

If you skip my advice and run straight to the track, well even then the wear you will see is much more dependent on your driving than anything else. That is to say, if you are like most novices who merely drive a lot faster than on the street then the difference won't be much at all. As your skills and confidence develop however you will quickly find you are having greatly increased tire and brake wear on the track. Autocross, not so much. (Did I mention do autocross first? Driver Skills?)

Driver Skills and Driver Ed are specific educational programs carefully designed, organized and run in order to avoid the insurance and liability risks you are asking about. Sure there are guys who will buy special event insurance. To each his own. Its really not necessary. I've been involved with this long enough to have seen quite a few damaged and even totaled cars, including even one highly modified borderline racer F-40 that burned a crater in the pavement, and insurance paid on all of them. So no worries there.

Autocross is the same. They stay safe by only running one car at a time on the course. Zero collision risk. Zero need for special insurance. Never knew of anyone even needing to file a claim in thousands of autocross runs.

Disclaimer: please note everything I've said applies to PCA/BMWCCA. All kinds of groups rent facilities where people drive fast. Caveat emptor.