Not that we should care but, 997 guys are ?
10-09-2012, 08:28 PM
#92
Race Car
The mechanical connection between car and driver was a huge improvement with the 997 - shifter, brakes, seats, and steering were all changed for the better from the 996, making the car more focused, and with the upgraded interior, at the same time a nicer place to be (and with the wider rear fenders and revised front end, nicer to look at as well).
The 991 has removed some of the mechanical connection, while (IMO, of course) going overboard 'upgrading' the interior (I already have a luxury car), and I can't get over the proportions of the wider front end.
Up until now, if you were faster in a 911, it was because you were a better driver - not because you ticked all of the option boxes for electronic driving aids.
I do not think the outgoing 997 was perfect, and the 991 is obviously more capable, but like am722 and others, the C2 and C2S have evolved into cars I do not want to own. Hopefully we will see a GTS or Club Sport version sooner than later - or a GT3 with AeroKit delete option. Or maybe Porsche's plan is to make the Cayman more of a pure drivers' car.
The 991 has removed some of the mechanical connection, while (IMO, of course) going overboard 'upgrading' the interior (I already have a luxury car), and I can't get over the proportions of the wider front end.
Up until now, if you were faster in a 911, it was because you were a better driver - not because you ticked all of the option boxes for electronic driving aids.
I do not think the outgoing 997 was perfect, and the 991 is obviously more capable, but like am722 and others, the C2 and C2S have evolved into cars I do not want to own. Hopefully we will see a GTS or Club Sport version sooner than later - or a GT3 with AeroKit delete option. Or maybe Porsche's plan is to make the Cayman more of a pure drivers' car.
10-09-2012, 08:30 PM
#93
Race Car
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The mechanical connection between car and driver was a huge improvement with the 997 - shifter, brakes, seats, and steering were all changed for the better from the 996, making the car more focused, and with the upgraded interior, at the same time a nicer place to be (and with the wider rear fenders and revised front end, nicer to look at as well).
The 991 has removed some of the mechanical connection, while (IMO, of course) going overboard 'upgrading' the interior (I already have a luxury car), and I can't get over the proportions of the wider front end.
Up until now, if you were faster in a 911, it was because you were a better driver - not because you ticked all of the option boxes for electronic driving aids.
I do not think the outgoing 997 was perfect, and the 991 is obviously more capable, but like am722 and others, the C2 and C2S have evolved into cars I do not want to own. Hopefully we will see a GTS or Club Sport version sooner than later - or a GT3 with AeroKit delete option. Or maybe Porsche's plan is to make the Cayman more of a pure drivers' car.
The 991 has removed some of the mechanical connection, while (IMO, of course) going overboard 'upgrading' the interior (I already have a luxury car), and I can't get over the proportions of the wider front end.
Up until now, if you were faster in a 911, it was because you were a better driver - not because you ticked all of the option boxes for electronic driving aids.
I do not think the outgoing 997 was perfect, and the 991 is obviously more capable, but like am722 and others, the C2 and C2S have evolved into cars I do not want to own. Hopefully we will see a GTS or Club Sport version sooner than later - or a GT3 with AeroKit delete option. Or maybe Porsche's plan is to make the Cayman more of a pure drivers' car.
10-09-2012, 08:46 PM
#94
Rennlist Member
The 996 GT3 was absolutely more raw (although it was PASM, not PSM, that was introduced on the 997 GT3 that made it softer, which I acknowledged a few posts back), however I specifically referred to the C2 and C2S, as this is not the GT3 forum.
The 997 Carrera was not significantly heavier than the 996, and in my experience you had to be hamfisted on a wet racetrack to get PSM to intervene.
The 997 Carrera was not significantly heavier than the 996, and in my experience you had to be hamfisted on a wet racetrack to get PSM to intervene.
10-10-2012, 09:25 AM
#95
The mechanical connection between car and driver was a huge improvement with the 997 - shifter, brakes, seats, and steering were all changed for the better from the 996, making the car more focused, and with the upgraded interior, at the same time a nicer place to be (and with the wider rear fenders and revised front end, nicer to look at as well).
The 991 has removed some of the mechanical connection, while (IMO, of course) going overboard 'upgrading' the interior (I already have a luxury car), and I can't get over the proportions of the wider front end.
Up until now, if you were faster in a 911, it was because you were a better driver - not because you ticked all of the option boxes for electronic driving aids.
I do not think the outgoing 997 was perfect, and the 991 is obviously more capable, but like am722 and others, the C2 and C2S have evolved into cars I do not want to own. Hopefully we will see a GTS or Club Sport version sooner than later - or a GT3 with AeroKit delete option. Or maybe Porsche's plan is to make the Cayman more of a pure drivers' car.
The 991 has removed some of the mechanical connection, while (IMO, of course) going overboard 'upgrading' the interior (I already have a luxury car), and I can't get over the proportions of the wider front end.
Up until now, if you were faster in a 911, it was because you were a better driver - not because you ticked all of the option boxes for electronic driving aids.
I do not think the outgoing 997 was perfect, and the 991 is obviously more capable, but like am722 and others, the C2 and C2S have evolved into cars I do not want to own. Hopefully we will see a GTS or Club Sport version sooner than later - or a GT3 with AeroKit delete option. Or maybe Porsche's plan is to make the Cayman more of a pure drivers' car.
Some things change and some things never do. 
I certainly enjoy reading the complaints though. Very funny.
10-10-2012, 11:45 AM
#96
Instructor
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I am going to sell my 991S and find a nice '63 Beetle, I just hate what they have done with the bumper styling on the 991. And the 991 back window is all wrong: no wonder you can't put an actual person in the back seat, let alone two. My Beetle will not have a stupid radio, who needs that distraction? Tires cost about $50.00 a piece instead of millions and I can easily tell when they need air just by looking at them. I can do all of my own repairs and the darn thing won't even need an oil filter, way ahead of it's time there! Yep, that's what I am going to do, find me a nice Beetle before this things goes out of warranty and ruins my retirement.
Obviously the Beetle is a far superior design! Why do they always have to go and screw things up.
Obviously the Beetle is a far superior design! Why do they always have to go and screw things up.
10-10-2012, 12:55 PM
#97
Drifting
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I saw one test that clocked a 0-60 time of 2.8 in a 997 TTS.
The 991S might have a handling edge on the 997TTS, but it won't out run it.
10-10-2012, 01:04 PM
#98
I am going to sell my 991S and find a nice '63 Beetle, I just hate what they have done with the bumper styling on the 991. And the 991 back window is all wrong: no wonder you can't put an actual person in the back seat, let alone two. My Beetle will not have a stupid radio, who needs that distraction? Tires cost about $50.00 a piece instead of millions and I can easily tell when they need air just by looking at them. I can do all of my own repairs and the darn thing won't even need an oil filter, way ahead of it's time there! Yep, that's what I am going to do, find me a nice Beetle before this things goes out of warranty and ruins my retirement.
Obviously the Beetle is a far superior design! Why do they always have to go and screw things up.
Obviously the Beetle is a far superior design! Why do they always have to go and screw things up.
10-10-2012, 01:13 PM
#99
Rennlist Member
I did not bother reading all the replies.
I don't have anything bad to say about 991, as it is a great 911. I do not mind having one, just don't feel like it is worth me trading in club coupe and lots of cash for it. Not worth the price as club coupe has everything that I need for street driving.
Besides, I have a .2GT3RS. So basically no cars in the 991 lineup has interested me yet.
I don't have anything bad to say about 991, as it is a great 911. I do not mind having one, just don't feel like it is worth me trading in club coupe and lots of cash for it. Not worth the price as club coupe has everything that I need for street driving.
Besides, I have a .2GT3RS. So basically no cars in the 991 lineup has interested me yet.
10-10-2012, 02:56 PM
#101
Instructor
We're also talking about 130 bhp and 191lb-ft more torque more in the TTS than in the 991Carrerra S. That's a lot of difference.
Amazing to see how the new Porsche owners are impressed that their cars went round the ring faster then the 997 GT3...and just 20 sec slower than the 918. That doesn't mean its a better car! Get in the 997GT3 or a 997TTS and give it a spin. I bet you'd wish you had one of these 997s.
10-10-2012, 03:54 PM
#102
Race Car
Here is a video that gets at some of the issues discussed here (besides being a neat watch).
http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-12...-Carrera-S.htm
Natch it confirms all of my opinions, predudices etc. Now we need a similar comparison of my favorate sports car, (991 S Sport PASM without PDCC) and your favorate "real" sports car!
http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-12...-Carrera-S.htm
Natch it confirms all of my opinions, predudices etc. Now we need a similar comparison of my favorate sports car, (991 S Sport PASM without PDCC) and your favorate "real" sports car!
10-10-2012, 08:12 PM
#103
Instructor
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I did not bother reading all the replies.
I don't have anything bad to say about 991, as it is a great 911. I do not mind having one, just don't feel like it is worth me trading in club coupe and lots of cash for it. Not worth the price as club coupe has everything that I need for street driving.
Besides, I have a .2GT3RS. So basically no cars in the 991 lineup has interested me yet.
I don't have anything bad to say about 991, as it is a great 911. I do not mind having one, just don't feel like it is worth me trading in club coupe and lots of cash for it. Not worth the price as club coupe has everything that I need for street driving.
Besides, I have a .2GT3RS. So basically no cars in the 991 lineup has interested me yet.
10-10-2012, 09:13 PM
#105
Three Wheelin'
About the video -- I would be interested to see a PDCC and non-PDCC comparison. "We THINK the understeer comes from the PDCC" is not terribly convincing.
