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I am completely taken by this color and the spec on that car. I'm not replacing my new Agate Grey Targa to get this color, and frankly I'm not confident this color would look great on a Targa, but wow it sure looks great on the coupe. It may be my favorite Porsche color ever. I'm saving the details for the future. You know. Just in case.
Hi Eduardo - have you seen Jade Green on a 991 Porsche?
What is commonly called 'Jade Green' in
Porsche color history is this color:
And that color ('Hellgrün') was recently approved for
PTS on the 991/718...plus the Macan & Panamera:
'Hellgrün' is not called 'Jade Green' at PAG anymore .
It's 'Lighter Green' to separate it from 'Light Green',
meaning 'Birch Green'.
In reality, the new generation of Germans now at
PAG don't give a damn about the color names in
English. 'Light', 'Lighter'...what next, 'Lightest'!
The folks that make up the PTS approved list are
either too lazy or indifferent to historical precedent
to go back & simply duplicate what these 'vintage'
early 911 colors were called in Porsche's own English-
language color charts & marketing brochures at the
time these colors were first offered to customers in
these external world markets:
PAG recently had to incorporate its old 'vintage'
English name into the PTS list because it was
the subject of confusion & blowback! The were
forced to add (Former Birch Green) after years
of being called simply 'Light Green'.
But it left intact its modern translation (Light Green)
which means absolutedly NOTHING to those seeking
to paint their cars in this old historic/vintage color!
Here is how previously this color was listed on the
PTS approved list:
I hope in future PTS list we will see (former: Jade Green) next to 'Hellgrün's'
current 'Lighter Green' nomenclature!
* And no, to answer your question, I don't recall
seeing yet a 'Hellgrün' 991, perhaps because it
was approved for PTS not that long ago!
****
Back in 2015 I posted these photos of original
'Hellgrün' Porsches from the past. It was one of
the IROC colors for the RSR in 1974. At the time
I wrote this, 'Hellgrün' had not yet been requested
or approved for PTS on the 991.
What is commonly called 'Jade Green' in
Porsche color history is this color:
And that color ('Hellgrün') was recently approved for
PTS on the 991/718...plus the Macan & Panamera:
'Hellgrün' is not called 'Jade Green' at PAG anymore .
It's 'Lighter Green' to separate it from 'Light Green',
meaning 'Birch Green'.
In reality, the new generation of Germans now at
PAG don't give a damn about the color names in
English. 'Light', 'Lighter'...what next, 'Lightest'!
The folks that make up the PTS approved list are
either too lazy or indifferent to historical precedent
to go back & simply duplicate what these 'vintage'
early 911 colors were called in Porsche's own English-
language color charts & marketing brochures at the
time these colors were first offered to customers in
these external world markets:
PAG recently had to incorporate its old 'vintage'
English name into the PTS list because it was
the subject of confusion & blowback! The were
forced to add (Former Birch Green) after years
of being called simply 'Light Green'.
But it left intact its modern translation (Light Green)
which means absolutedly NOTHING to those seeking
to paint their cars in this old historic/vintage color!
Here is how previously this color was listed on the
PTS approved list:
I hope in future PTS list we will see (former: Jade Green) next to 'Hellgrün's'
current 'Lighter Green' nomenclature!
* And no, to answer your question, I don't recall
seeing yet a 'Hellgrün' 991, perhaps because it
was approved for PTS not that long ago!
****
Back in 2015 I posted these photos of original
'Hellgrün' Porsches from the past. It was one of
the IROC colors for the RSR in 1974. At the time
I wrote this, 'Hellgrün' had not yet been requested
or approved for PTS on the 991.
For comparison with 'Hellgrün, here is a 'Mint Green' gt3 RS:
'MInt' (color code 22R) has slightly more blue tint than 'Hellgrün'.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
Dear Eduardo - thank you for your feedback and have done a bit research on this - agree with you
Lighter Green = 227 (Jade Green)
Light Green = 253 (Birch Green)
I could not find any modern car with that color - only car I have seen in that color recently is a 964 RS which looks stunning.
One more question if you allow me - do you know if
1. Verde Ithaca has been approved as a PTS color (last list I have it was still pending) and
2. Do you know if Metallic Green (230) and Speedway Green (258) are Porsche approved colors.
PS: I found an App from Glasurit (phone and Tablet - easily downloadable from the app store) that has all historic porsche colors - worth while to look at and mix some colors at a paint shop...
Helmut:
Thanks for your note. See my comments in 'red':
Originally Posted by hets72
One more question if you allow me -
do you know if
1. Verde Ithaca has been approved as a PTS color (last list I have it was still pending)
No, Lamborghini's 'Verde Ithaca' has been rejected since the first day we started
publishing the PTS list back in July of 2012:
Today
2012
Lamborghini 'Verde Ithaca' is a three coat paint with a pearlescent effect
& a final clear coat (sort of like Porsche's new 'Saffron Yellow Metallic').
2. Do you know if Metallic Green (230) and Speedway Green (258) are Porsche approved colors.
Neither of those color codes (230/258) I see in the latest list.
There is a color called 'Metallic Green' but it has a different
color code:
***
PS: I found an App from Glasurit (phone and Tablet - easily downloadable from the app store)
that has all historic porsche colors - worth while to look at and mix some colors at a paint shop...
Please send it to my friend Jamie140 in Canada so he can share it with his Service Advisor (SA)
at his dealership!
Below is an exchange we had recently in the 991 gt3 forum:
Originally Posted by Jamie140
You guys sound pretty confident that it's an easy
thing to colour match pts. Have you ever tried?
i wanted to shoot my GT4 wheel centres in gelb
grun, sa said Porsche won't reveal formula.
Jamie140: You should have asked me! I mix 'Gelbgrün'
every Monday at 10 AM & every-other Thursday at 3PM
in my kitchen sink! Here is the color formula. You need
to get a more resourceful SA or one that is at least better
educated about the modern automotive paint 'scene' in
Canada & elsewhere in the World today!
Seriously, do any of you guys think that
a respectable auto manufacturer would
paint a car a certain color (regular or PTS)
at their factory & then withhold the color
formula from you (the customer) or your
representative (dealer or auto paint shop)
so that you can NOT properly do a touch
up or repaint a panel in case of an accident
or anything else?
thanks for the quick response and will have to investigate the Y63 color - the Glasurit APP is very simple to be donloaded from the APP store - and has every year and make/model of Porsche included..... quite fascinating to look at..... most paint shops would then be able to mix this paint...
Eduardo,
..fantastic explanation of Porsche Z codes. I had to do some investigation to figure out what Z codes were applicable to one of my Porsche cars. Turned out to be deviating stitching on 2013 991 turbo S. keep your commentaries coming, many thanks..
Pretty lousy photos on dealer's own website. It
looks 'Signal Green'. But it could be RS 'Green'.
Maybe even 'Viper'.
I find it quite annoying, and frankly irresponsible,
that PAG does not specify the color & code of the
particular hue of a production car right in the
Monroney window sticker, vehicle status report
& all other official paperwork associated with the
car in the order process, production, inventory &
all the way to customer delivery.
So even now, after it is listed on a dealer per
prescribed form (required of all P-dealers) we
are all left guessing as to the color of the car!
Frustrating & annoying....yes indeed!
In modern era, PAG does make a decal sticker
with the color code that is supposed to be applied
to the car at some location. On the 997 era, it
was on the inside flap of gas filler cap.
In the 991 era, the sticker comes with the the car but unattached.
Some dealers put it somewhere in the car,
perhaps under front hood. Others attach
it to maintenance book that goes with the
owners' manual in the leather pouch. In
my case, it was just handed to me still
attached to the band as it came from
Zuffenhausen. My .1 gt3 was 'Signal
Green', code 22S.
Perhaps not a problem in the first
few years for original owner that
knows well the color he/she ordered.
But in 20/40 years, after multiple owners,
many will not know the color of their
PTS cars.
I am reposting this here from the 991 forum since it's relevant to the topic of this thread!
Originally Posted by 96redLT4
Hi Eduardo,
How does the PTS program actually work?? I know they open up 'windows' with each model.
I am interested in a GT3T in signal yellow, an approved color. Obviously you have to get the
allocation for the car, and for me would that have to coincide with the PTS 'window' being open?
All this for the privilege of paying, I think it is $12K for the GT3. Also does Porsche keep all of
the approved PTS colors in their paint store-you just have to tell them the code? Thanks in
advance to you (or anyone else) for the info!
Jim
Originally Posted by Z356
Jim:
It works in weird ways...and this year it got
even more strange re: how PTS was handled
for the .2 991 gt3 in the US market! Normally
PAG lets PCNA & dealers know when the PTS
window opens for each model where that option
is offered.
Due in large part because of the information we
all here at Rennlist have disseminated re: PTS
(which is now being monitored in all Porsche
markets across the globe on this forum), PTS
is in greater demand than its supply at PAG for
its more desirable gt models & Boxster Spyder.
On July 18th, 2017 we reported a new request
system that PCNA appeared to be using to allow
its US customers already with gt3 allocations
to request PTS for it & wait for PAG to approve it!
Soon my friend Andre (Montoya) started a thread
on the 991 gt3 forum to record & monitor those
waiting for PTS on their gt3 allocations. You can
read the long & tedious history of how this all is
turning out at the link below!
PTS today at PAG for its sport cars:
$12,830 for gt2RS
$12,830 for gt3
$6,960 for other 991 models
$5,500 for 718
No. Once a PTS custom order is approved,
confirmed & locked (status like V215 & above),
PAG orders that particular paint from one of
at least three automotive paint suppliers &
ask them to send it (when they get to it since
there is a minimum 3 month lag time between
status lock date & build date) to the paint shop
(e.g. Zuffenhausen in regards the gt3) & to each
of the subcontractor that might be painting a
particular part for this Porsche! All parts of the
puzzle - PTS painted chassis from the paint shop
& PTS painted parts from subcontractors - will
arrive at the Werk II assembly line on the target
build date in a complicated logistic 'ballet' called
at PAG 'Just-in-Time' & 'Just-in-Sequence'.
Then voila...your PTS Porsche gets assembled
& built!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
Originally Posted by 96redLT4
Very informative, as always Eduardo. Thank you.
So I guess I can assume that is available for the GT3 as it is listed on the options/build
it yourself page. One just has to get an allocation for the car then probably wait awhile
longer for the PTS to be approved. I'm just sitting here scratching my head wondering
why it costs $5500 to paint a 718 and $12800 to paint a GT3! Merry Christmas.
J
Originally Posted by Z356
You are welcome, Jim!
The fact is it cost them almost nothing to switch
from a standard 'White' to a PTS 'Signal Green'
as a 718 Boxster, a Carrera S, a gt3 or a gt2 RS
rolls as a raw metal chassis through the new paint
shop at Zuffenhausen on their way to the Werk II
assembly building!
The cleaning of the nozzles & the switch to a new,
different paint color takes literally seconds! So as I
learned at The Wharton School in my youth, pricing
is not necessarily tied always to what it cost someone
to produce it in our free-market economy!
There are paints that do cost more to produce &
justify a higher premium for the option...although
we could debate if it's worth it or justified.
*
The new 'Saffron Yellow Metallic' option on a
911 Turbo & S is priced at $11,580. It's a multi-
layer paint process that requires additional sanding
in between coats, so there is a more expensive
manual labor component that is involved.
*
On some limited editions, like the '18 911 Turbo S 'Exclusive Series' Edition,
a carbon fibre hood (for example) is painted in a special way to allow part of
the carbon fibre to show. Same for the roof, rear deck lid, etc. That is a super
complicated procedure that involves a ton of manual labor...so you can see
why it would cost more!
In case you are curious, the unique paint for this Limited Edition
is called 'Golden Yellow Metallic' & the LE was priced at $257.5K!
*
Some special paint jobs are so specialized & expensive to
produce that PAG out-sources them to other paint shops
with a special type of expertise - plus it doesn't clog up their
automated new paint shop that is not set up for this kind of
specialized job. That is the case of the new 'Chromaflair'
option that is limited to 5 Turbos per year!
Price of this option? $97K large ones! Then you need
to pay for the actual 991 Turbo S that is found underneath
that $97K fancy paint! This unusual color is called
'Python Green'.
Happy Christmas Eve,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
Originally Posted by 96redLT4
The Porsche paint shop has some outstanding looking, and I'm sure skilled craftspeople
in its employ! Its funny how they make it so elusive to swap the nozzle and attach to a new
can of paint. It looks like you have had quite the palate of PTS Porsche cars in your past
Eduardo! What are your thoughts about signal yellow? It fascinates, and seems to be growing
on me day by day, maybe because it looks more orange/tangerine than yellow? It seems like
such a grand old Porsche color and arguably less common than the blues/greens/reds. Cheers!
Jim
'Signal Yellow' is one of my all-time favorite hues in Porsche color history. I owned a factory
original 'Signal Yellow' 1973 911T Sunroof & it was simply a stunning color! Indeed it has an
orange flow to it!
Interestingly, it was one of the first VIN numbers for MY1973, having been built
on the first day of production for that model year. For MY1973, that was early
in July of 1972!
***
It's not by accident that PAG chose 'Signal Orange' as the PTS .2 991 gt3 it allow the public to see.
***
And in a world of automotive color paints that are bland, unexciting & often depressing
to see, a 'Signal Yellow' 911 radiates warmth & beauty like a sphere of hot plasma in an
otherwise dark/cold cosmos!
Eduardo, I was told that Porsche GB made a deal with the factory to forego PTS on the
991.2 GT3 in return for securing a larger production allocation. PTS is also not available
for PTS here due to the limited production window for that model. Apparently the factory
is ceasing production for several months and the reason I was given was that the entire
petrol engine range is going through an emissions re-certification process. Just to add
further mystery I was advised that PTS may be withdrawn as an option as it is causing
too many production delay issues. This seems strange after your informative posts above
showing how relatively easy it is for the new paint shop to accommodate PTS.
Thank you ISUK. Very interesting information you are providing us from the UK.
In case folks don't know/remember ISUK in this forum, this gentleman is a known
collector in Britain of German & Italian sport cars with a particular taste for PTS!
In addition, he figured out how the Targa top on the 991 was going to mechanically
work before PAG announced its particulars!
It is interesting that with some PTS colors they point out the additional labor of hand sanding between coats. I am a senior citizen and I remember when cars were produced without orange peel in the paint which requires sanding between coats. Today's manufacturers don't do that and that is why virtually every car out there has awful orange peel in the paint which includes Porsche, Mercedes, etc. And no matter what you try to do to the finish you can't get rid of it because it is in the paint layers below the top clear coat. This is one reason why I laugh when guys are so concerned about the finish on their cars and spend a lot of time and money on it when all you can do is try to get any foreign substance off the top coat and maybe get a bit of reflection off of it. Look at a car that has been restored/painted by a really good paint shop and you will see no orange peel in the paint because they sand the paint between coats. BTW: I don't believe that there are more than two color coats.
12-07-2017, 11:36 AM
