slowlane

the 991 pdk i drove shifted instantly. substantially faster than a 997 pdk that i drove back-to-back.

dudical26

Any update to this from the original poster? The PDK is completely backwards.

I would like to also make the right paddle up and left down, no matter which way you push it.

simsgw

My God, still? I dodged this thread in February and hoped it had died before I bought my 991. One point at a time:

1. The original poster is correct. You can get your car changed. You may not be able to legally sell it in the United States thereafter, but I doubt anybody actually looks for violations of that law. The plaintiffs in any subsequent suit might be able to treble their damages though. And a suit is likely.
2. This poster is apparently just trying to be a pain in the aspirations of people who actually can afford a 991. He'd have learned in the first test drive that the paddles already operate the way he wants to make them operate.
3. Someone asked whether any competent engineer couldn't 'fix' this. Offhand, I would not say any of us could, but some of us who can are available. You should consider that when we're not working in an oath-sworn context like the military labs, we like to figure our fee in terms of Boxsters per question. A flat rate of one Turbo might be arranged for a pressing issue like this.

Where were we? Oh yes. Refer to an early post that answered the nonsense about one direction being in accordance with physics and the other not. I can just picture the first guy implementing a sequential shift in a race car: "Hey Joe! Which way you want this to go up?" "I don't care. How much duct tape you got?" The only reason we care about race cars being the same is that it's a nuisance having to relearn reflexes and it's easy to get caught doing something backward for the first few days. Spinning the car over a control reversal is embarrassing. And the mechanics get pissed. Other than that, you race the car you have. So don't cite racing as a justification for one direction or the other. Except for consistency, no good driver would give a damn which direction was chosen.

Oh yes, for what it's worth, I find paddles to be a pain in the neck when I'm not on a race track, so I ordered my car with the multi-function wheel. When I'm not on the limit of adhesion, I use one hand for the steering, usually the left, and let that one operate any on-steering-wheel controls. The other hand is busy elsewhere with ancillary systems, both from sixty years' habit in driving sticks and because that's the way we do it in airplanes. Having to bring the other hand back to the paddles just for a shift is annoying. When I do track my car, that's why I have the PDK Sport Plus mode and it sure as hell shifts faster than I can.

Having to swap directions to shift up when moving between different street cars is trivial. Get over it or buy a Mazda. For a few weeks in 2009, I was swapping between a Mazda, a Buick, and an Acura and I can't say that it ever took more than five minutes to remind my arm which way to move. Some of the mental tricks mentioned last February are helpful. The Acura (and my 991) are shifting up when I move forward because a two-three shift is always that direction. The Mazda in my head was always shifting three-four, so of course it came backward to go up a gear. The Buick... who remembers a Buick?

I have to say that I'm a little surprised at the Mazda and BMW design teams. Their mothers must have been scared by a sequential shifter while gestating. Or maybe Marketing decided. (Marketers are widely alleged not to have mothers. Not my assertion. Just saying.) The first sequential shifter was almost certainly based arbitrarily on some immediately available part choice. Not necessarily duct tape, but in that spirit. That, or some drivers whim. But road cars should try to stick to past convention wherever possible. Elsewhere in life we pull back to go slower. From reins to throttles to the aircraft stick, pulling back is for slower speeds, a downshift. Hard to believe a large car company would choose on a whim to follow a racing practice that is almost certainly arbitrary. Remember when... Ferrari I think it was... had a race car with the throttle in the middle, clutch to one side and brake to the other? Would you like to try that in your next 458?

As for which is natural? Pfui. I am willing to grant personal preference, but people who claim it's correct only when the gearshift moves in their preferred direction are ...

Time for bed,

Gary

chuckbdc

I bet that with sufficient practice, plus a little reward with each success, and perhaps a bit of aural reinforcement, even a Porsche driver could learn to push or pull even buttons on the steering wheel. Makes me salivate to think of that. May have to go for a ride right now.

Bob Rouleau

I wonder of Gary and I ae the only ones who prefer the buttons on the wheel as opposed to the paddles? I like being able to up or down shift with either hand. At first I was a little annoyed after being used to the F1 on my 430, but after a few hours I came to think that Porsche has gotten in right in spite of the tradition of paddles.

Regards,

Nicoli35

I became very used to the buttons on the wheel of a '09 C4S PDK, in a fairly short time, and also found paddles limiting afterwards.

ADias

I've been a fan of PAG's redundant button system since 2009 and have stated and defended that position often on RL. Redundancy is great in many situations and especially in mid corner and that is the next forum battle, as mid-corner shifting is deemed 'incorrect' by those who are schooled in old-school tracking. But no more... PDK shifts mid-corner with a perfectly settled car.

Note: PAG's shifting buttons are available not only on the multi-function steering wheel, but for those who prefer a simpler wheel, it is available on the standard steering wheel.

dudical26

Mind directing me towards the place that can reverse the direction of the PDK shifter. If i could get that done, i could leave with the buttons on the wheel.

Thanks

rpilot

Count me in. I have not had any substantial experience beyond a test drive with the paddle shifters, but the user interface works just like any other paddle shifted transmission, automatic, dual clutch or otherwise. The biggest problem with the wheel mounted paddle shifter imo is when in downshifting in a turn, I have either always found it unwise to resort to contortions and loosening my grip on the steering to downshift with my left hand and never intuitively find the paddle when the steering is spinning back into position in my hand.

I have had no experience with the F1 on the 430 or any similar car, but correct me if I am wrong, aren't the paddle shifters mounted on the column to overcome just the above problem?

I did drive a cayenne (8 speed auto, but same user interface) for two weeks or so, not too long ago and realized the brilliance of Porsche's button system. You just remember to click up and down and you can do so easily no matter which button comes to hand easier. It just becomes second nature so easily.

I venture to guess that Porsche engineers were probably a bit insulted when their brilliant user interface came under criticism by folks as "un-intuitive". The Paddle shifters, IMO feel more "satisfying or engaging" and hence Porsche came up with their decidedly inferior (IMO) system for those folks.

@Rushman71 (OP).. all I say is, I have never found the up down movement intuitive considering I have interchangeably driven automatics and stick shift and always found the H pattern more effective. However, I do find the current PDK arrangement more logical, so I think you are in the minority here.
What I would recommend is if you really want to get that done, is to find the best auto electronics shop in your town and find the best talent there along with a way to get to the Porsche tech manuals to accomplish this ... of course you would not be able to drop your car off with anyone... valets in general and service valets or technicians at the dealer by letting them know explicity this just in case they decide to drive the car in manual mode. And don't expect said dealer to honor any warranty for any electrical component (which can extend to any component) in the car. As Gary mentioned, if you do manage to get it done, it is a disaster waiting to happen for someone else, either under your ownership or after you sell it. Please reverse the procedure before you do sell it.

Curvfun

I'm interested as I'd like to reverse it too.

scott parker

Porsche have it wrong, My old E46 M3 had it right and so does my PS3 I suppose its what you get used to but every other instinct tells you that they have it back to front. I would love to be able to reverse it

mtony

I too am coming from an e46 M3 and liked to push forward for a downshift. Pulling back to downshift reminds me of driving my dad's Pontiac Grand Am when I was a teenager.

simsgw

What I said was: Obviously, I need to be more clear, so forgive me if this feels blunt:

You should not do it. A very good control engineer -- like myself and many others working in military labs on digital control systems -- could analyze everything Porsche have tied into that control movement and make sure the fairly simple physical changes did not have unintended consequences. We call that reverse engineering, since Porsche are not going to release the design data we normally would expect to examine. After we retire from jobs with patriotism as part payment, we charge a lot for our opinions. "Boxsters per question" was just a cute analogy. Our company finance officer figured a minimum of $50,000 for a technical opinion -- that is an opinion -- without related work. Figure a month to six weeks for that answer. A customer who had us on retainer could ask for a "quick look" that typically cost only $5,000. That would be an opinion like the one you're getting here for free, not that I expect any gratitude or Boxsters in my driveway. Detailed design information relating to solutions, or prototyping -- which is what you're asking for -- would range from $100,000 to $500,000 and typically required 90 days to a year. This is fairly simple compared to our usual tasks, so figure the ninety day effort. Just don't tell our finance officer that Gary gave you a quote.

If someone like Jerry Seinfeld or Jay Leno offered a commission in those ranges, I would add a premium for liability in this case. In fact, the liability portion would dominate the engineering cost. You're talking about changing the control system of a super car, one of the fastest half dozen cars in the world. As the design engineer, I (or my company if I were not retired) would share your responsibility when you or someone else got hurt. Or when anyone suffered a loss associated with that car's operation and latched onto the control system mods to wave at a jury. Million-dollar judgments are getting off cheap in such a situation. Did you never wonder why medical equipment that looks like you could buy it at Radio Shack is so very damned expensive? The design houses and manufacturers carry liability insurance with premiums higher than medical malpractice because more patients every year pass through their equipment's care halo than ever get seen by a surgeon. This case is worse. You are asking a jury to look kindly on a decision to reverse the design choice of the most respected civilian engineering house in the world: Porsche. Literally 'reverse' them in this case. Good luck with that verdict. Somebody like me will be an expert witness for the plaintiff remember.

Getting a mechanic or an electrician to do the job without a properly skilled engineer doing such an analysis beforehand is foolhardy for yourself as well as your heirs. A minor risk exists that you'll just destroy the car, a medium risk that you'll only die and your heirs will have an estate that's still free and clear, but the major risk is that secondary liability. You might have no estate left.

Just one scenario: a valet who parks Porsches every day gets in and bangs into a McLaren trying to park your 'enhanced' Porsche. Will it be the fault of control reversal? Probably not. But you will call your insurance company when you get sued for a million dollars plus, and they probably won't cover you when they find out you had someone screw with the controls and then let a valet into your car. A simpler scenario: you cause an accident yourself, through no fault of your electrician's, and maybe really not your fault either. But the parents of the little girl you just killed blame you and their investigator learns about the reversed controls, so they sue everybody who ever touched your car. Want to bet a jury won't agree with them when they hear you screwed with "the computer controls"? Consider how many juries believe in the impossible feat of cars accelerating away with the brakes fully engaged. Now think again. A jury will have your guts. And your estate as well if you didn't survive.

Is it possible? Could you get a hack job, swapping some microswitches and finding out what works and what doesn't without a proper analysis? Certainly. We used to build hotrods that way when I was growing up in Southern California. But you won't get a steer from me to someone who'd attempt that.

Learn the skills of a real driver and it won't matter which way your hand is moving when you shift. Or, as I said, buy a Mazda.

Gary

rpilot

@Rushman71... Please listen to Gary. I was thinking of any one of those scenarios when I said what I said, and was not trying to encourage you by any means. I was simply saying that an auto electronics technician could attempt some hackjob, but in retrospect he would have to be pretty ignorant of liability to do that. Reversing your PDK shift pattern, this has disaster written all over it.

And what is wrong with the buttons on the wheel anyway? As our friends across the pond would say, "they are bloody brilliant".

Curvfun

All that ^^^ is a little too personally opinionated for my liking. No one is trying to change any of the basic "P-R-N-D" operation or core functionality, only the direction the car's lever shifts when specifically and intentionally moved to the left, away and outside of the basic positions. This change wouldn't cause it to enter reverse or park when it shouldn't and therefore should be unknown/benign to the inexperienced driver. I'll change mine and never look back if the required change can be determined.