Kg11

Hi all, I-we need some help. My wife and I track a really nice 981 CS with a whole lot of suspension upgrades done by the previous owner ($15k worth). We love it, but the car needs to be driven more outside of track days, and we simply need 4 seats to get kids 2 and from school.

Enter a base 991.1 manual! I found a nice base 991.1 locally for a great price (sport seats plus, manual, PSE) which is everything I really want. I figure power-weight is about the same as the CS. Here is the rub: the suspension is stock: not PASM and certainly not what we have on the 981, which is a combination of GT3 sway bars, GT3 Lower control arms, drop links and monoballs from Elephant Racing, Tarett camber plates, and Moton 3-way coilovers. I get that I am unlikely to replicate the 981 suspension setup, but if we buy this 991, I want to get it "partway" there. Really, the goal is 75% of the performance for 40% of the cost of the full 981 setup (law of diminishing returns).

Where to start???
Coilovers/HAS?
front or rear control arms? GT3 LCAs?
bushing/bearing upgrades?
Sway bars?
drop links? I want to bring the car down about 25-30mm
Camber plates?

It is all a big confusing and I want to get the right setup without making the car worse. I would like to keep it under $7k.

snake eyes

Start by looking at S Models, they come with upgraded brakes and PASM, buy a DSC controller...
Put some Good tires on it..
sway bars and go from there
my advice.

97supratt

The DSC controller is awesome but only works with PASM. If you're looking to spend some $$$, get bilstein or ohlins coilvers, GT3 front and rear control arms, and a good alignment. You don't really need the sways to be honest. Most people here don't replace them unless they do some serious track events. If you're replacing your coilovers with stiff springs, you should be fine.

chuckbdc

Ask the guys at TPC Racing. <https://www.tpcracing.com/>

AdamSanta85

I would throw some Ohlins, Bilstein, or KW coilovers on it. Then maybe do sways and some arms bushings etc as needed. You don't need PASM.

swagon

LSD if you don't have it, which I doubt, given no one's ever ordered a base C2 with it.

snake eyes

GREAT POINT

another reasons to just fork over the money and get an S

dsddcd

A few quick notes for the future car you find.

• The front end of the 981 and 991 are the same so in theory you have half the parts for free.
• Sway bars are difficult to install and if you properly size your springs have little impact. I often recommend to others that they install one adjustable bar just to make the tuning process easier, so they don't have to swap springs to get a neutral setup. The rear bar on the 991's is easier to install and it would allow you to soften for a rainy day.
• Best bang for the buck on the 991's in my opinion in order:

1. An alignment, that will provide even tire wear when driving near your limits. If you track the car then you will probably be best to reuse your LCA's from the old car in front in order to achieve the desired camber. Note that the Thrust Arm has a monoball from the factory so no performance upgrades are found changing it.
2. PASM Coil Over Conversion with a Single Rate Spring & DSC Module (TPC, Elephant, KW Has, H&R...... There are a number of options)
3. Wheels and Tires, Lighter Weight and More Rubber ( I have sized and provided a number of Signature Wheels lately that are light weight, great value and look amazing)
4. The rear is more difficult as the only real upgrades are the control arm bushings and though they provide precision the difference is not massive, the cost is high, there is a loss of drive ability & reliability on the street
5. After the above the next step would be Shocks and or Aero

97supratt

The alignment is hugeeee!!!! On mine the difference was night and day. You might as well change the control arms.

garfunkle

First off - Why not keep both? You'll take a bath selling the CS. Remember that good street cars make bad track cars and good track cars make bad street cars. Seriously. You're better off spending the Monet on an S and calling it a day. You'll get bigger brakes, LSD, sway bars and SPASM right out of the gate so that'll save you 20-25k right there and we are excluding the engine in this convo since that's not really a normal upgrade.

My advice options:
1. Both.
2. Get the base and stop with just a brake upgrade. You may find a little body role is more fun and better for feeling out the car.
3. If you're serious about track then get a radical + GTI.

Ohlins over the others... they are the best mid/low level for a street car.

YES

All of this

Kg11

OK, thanks everyone so far! Here is what I am hearing:

1) S has an LSD, base model does not. I am more familiar with 997 options where the LSD was optional. The S has an LSD standard, or is it something I need to search out?
2) find an S with SPASM (shouldn't be too difficult)
3) if going base, just enjoy it after a brake upgrade (eventually), a set of Ohlins and GT3 LCAs along with a good alignment

If it matters, the base 991 has the Aerokit and is a manual, which is is what drew me to the car. I love the Aerokit; it just screams presence, and my wife thinks it is the best looking iteration of the 991; it will be her DD so that is important. She would insist we get her a GT3 if it had 4 seats and wasn't so darn much $.

We don't have the space for another car, unfortunately; otherwise, I would be all over the 981/991 combo.

Good to know on the 981-991 parts swap; I have the GT3 LCAs and GT3 sways along with all connecting bits. I just wished I had the stock parts; the original owner tossed them.

From my research, a low-mile manual S or 4S will cost me about $12k-15k more than a low-mile base. Finding one with the Aerokit will be tough.

I figure the "base suspension" is good enough for a entry-level weekend HPDE car, but I hate the ridiculously tall stance on the base car. -25mm is about right, which is where our 981 is set up at (tall for New England tracks). I could get the KW HAS kit, but then I am 1/2 of the way toward Ohlins.

snake eyes

If you're going to track it get a 991.1S step it up.
The 991.1S with pilot sport cup tires and SPASM is a Great touring car and a good track car.
yes LSD is standard on Carrera S cars

Here are vids of my Stock SPASM 991.1S with nothing more than cup 2 tires at HPDE.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpy...dsYeZpeHTc7rrw

I sold the car and now have a 991.2S (only mod is Pilot sport cup 2 tires). I pass 991.1 GT3's for fun...
The driver mod is the biggest thing you can do.

Clubspec330i

Thanks for the vids. I do thnk driver mod is the biggest thing you can do.
My first DE was back in 1999 at Laguna Seca with my 1998 Integra GSR. I did a 2.07. If I were to go back with the same car or similar HP car, I know I can knock down at least 2-3 seconds off if not more. That being said, I want to see I need to improve myself first before starting to improve my 911.

Cheers and stay in good health.

awrryan

Forget cup 2 tires. Not good for the track. Great as a dual purpose tire, but not good for the track. I have experience. I use RE71 (Bridgestone). Suspension: ohlins road and track. Gt3 front sway bar. Tarret rear sway bar. Tarret drop links. I have a base 991.1 carrera as my track car. Definitely down on power compared to an S but a precision track tool in my opinion and tons of fun.

dsddcd

Looks you are near the Kansas City area! If you ever see a Red GTS out at Hallett, Heartland..... come say Hi!

Here is a Run at HPT on the stock PZero's!




Agreed, I run the stock PZero's and PS4S's most of the time and have no problem running with GT3's and RS's!