Please offer opinions on pricing for this 991.1 C4S
 

I've got an opportunity to buy this car. This is an 11,000 mile, 1-owner 2013 C4S with clean CarFax. I haven't gotten a PPI yet and I don't know about the condition of the tires, but seller assures me the car is pristine. Silver exterior, black standard interior, manual, SportDesign package, glass sunroof, Premium Package Plus, sport chrono, PSE, 14-way seats, Bose.

What I want to know from you all is, what is the range of prices you think I should reasonably expect for this car? That means, assuming the seller is normally motivated (i.e., looking to sell but not desperate), what's the lowest price I could reasonably expect to get it for? And what's the price above which it would not represent a fair deal for me (i.e., the price at which I'd be paying "too much").

I'm not going to share the seller's asking price because I don't want to taint anyone's opinions. I've already done some research and found that it is above the Kelly Blue Book price. I just thought getting a few more data points would be helpful as I consider starting negotiations.

By the way, does anyone know how I could get a free AutoCheck or CarFax for this?

Thanks in advance!

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I paid 72K for a CPO'd car with about a 138K original sticker, had under 25K miles.

Does it have all the options YOU want? It would be missing 18 ways and SPASM for me personally, and I know it's polarizing but I only like these 991 in PDK. That said, 73-75 seems more than fair to me. A lot of car for the money! If it's a car you really like I absolutely guarantee you'll forget about an extra $1k here or there the day you first get it home.

I'd say $73k to $75k. It gets a little bump for the Sportdesign package. When I bought by 2013 4S last year, I paid a little extra for Sportdesign and full leather - both rare options. My must-have list had PDK, Chrono, PSE, full leather and Sportdesign. When I found a car with those options I jumped on it. Is this a color combo you love and does this car have the options on your must-have list?

Yes, this has pretty much everything that's really important to me. I'd prefer to also have illuminated entry and deviated stitching, but that stuff's not really important.

I have used this site to get carfax/autocheck. It used to be cheaper.
https://www.autovin.de/

78k
 

Finding those options is ptetty rare.

Thanks so much to those who responded. I really appreciate it!

Well, since it looks like nobody else is going to chime in, I'll reveal the seller's asking price: $85,000.

When I started this thread, I knew the asking price was high, but it seems my estimates were off. I now think it's significantly too high! I now have more respect for the Kelly Blue Book estimate.

I've asked the seller to come down, and it's been a few days since our last conversation with no response from him. He just doesn't seem particularly eager to sell. He said he's had it listed for sale for about two months now and I'm only the second person to contact him about it. But that doesn't seem to bother him at all.

So, this might not be the right car for me. I need to find a seller who's seriously interested in selling and willing to price their car accordingly.

Thanks again.

I've been on the hunt myself. I feel like prices are ticking north. I am seeing $120ish-k build, low mile, C2S's CPO going for low 70's. I would say high 70's is a good number for this C4S. This car has all the right options (PDK give or take).

Thanks for the input!

Thanks for the input. I value all every opinion and data point I can get.

Thats quite a bit of coins to ask for a non pdk non cpo car

i would say 72k to 75k

Manual cars are harder to find and if the OP is like me, and a few others here, I would not be driving my 991.2 if it had the PDK. If you really like the car and considering it has low miles and a manual, upper $70s would be fair. Most people here expect to steal cars but realistically the seller is probably not that motivated and since there are not many cars like it he is probably willing to wait for the right buyer. If you have a very tight budget the price may matter more but there have been a lot of people posting here that ask the same kinds of questions, drag their feet and find it sold when they decide it was worth it to them.

Seller just told me he can't see letting it go for less than 80K.

After over 470 cars there is one thing I will tell you, a good deal is nothing more than a state of mind. I've seen people post what they think a car should be worth, in some cases far below the market average, which is probably why some folks take so long to find a car to buy. I'm old and not very patient. There are CPO'd (same year) cars with over 40K miles with asking prices in the mid 70's. If the car has what you want and you want it, then it can be a good deal for you. Spring is coming and prices tend to go up not down during better weather months. The car I bought is my winter fun car, and will go into storage on April 1st.

If you like the car and $80k will not break the bank buy it. That price is not worth walking away from considering everything I have heard from you.

Just one other thought. If you are going to spend $80K, do you consider searching for a 991.2 and get the associated upgrades?

Ha, don't you know we are all experts? Someone on this string smartly said previously "The right price is the price the seller is willing to sell it at and the buyer willing to pay for it". I like that the best.

Yeah, I'm not trying to nickle and dime the seller, but I can't afford to overpay by $4-6K. Buying an expensive sports car is already a bad financial decision. I know there are people who have way more money than me who can absorb that kind of loss without too much heartburn, but not me. I'm just looking to see if we can get the price somewhere in the fair market value range, rather than outside that range. Obviously reasonable minds often differ about what's "fair," and that's part of the reason why input from the experts here on Rennlist can be helpful.

It's funny: I can tell the seller is very ambivalent about selling. And as a buyer, I feel the same way! Part of me dreads acquiring my next 911, because I know firsthand how much of a hassle it can be to unload. If you trade it or sell it to a dealer you get screwed so the dealer can make a profit. If you try to sell it to an individual, you have to deal with annoying people like me, and the process can take a long time. And no matter what you do, you have to confront the reality of how much money you lost while owning your car. And that all assumes you didn't make any modifications to the car. If you upgrade your wheels or exhaust, you lose even more money on the deal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to eventually getting my next 911. But the longer I wait to buy, the better. These cars are just depreciating every day, and there are always more being listed for sale somewhere.

That reminds me ... time to go check the classifieds and "hot for sale" threads!

True, but if I, as buyer, am wiling to pay above the range that most would characterize as "fair market value," then I'm going to either (1) lose more money than necessary to when it's time to sell, or (2) go through a long and arduous process trying to find another guy who's also willing to pay above the fair market range. Neither of those things is very enjoyable and both would dampen my enthusiasm for 911 ownership. So I think it's worth ensuring at the outset that I don't overpay when I'm a buyer.

And to be honest, the hunt is kind of enjoyable too.

tax advantage
 

Not sure where you live but if the purchase price ia left blank on the bill of sale or the car is registered in Montana 6k is easily offset.

[QUOTE=SLC Tortfeasor;15706364]Yeah, I'm not trying to nickle and dime the seller, but I can't afford to overpay by $4-6K. Buying an expensive sports car is already a bad financial decision. I know there are people who have way more money than me who can absorb that kind of loss without too much heartburn, but not me. I'm just looking to see if we can get the price somewhere in the fair market value range, rather than outside that range. Obviously reasonable minds often differ about what's "fair," and that's part of the reason why input from the experts here on Rennlist can be helpful.

It's funny: I can tell the seller is very ambivalent about selling. And as a buyer, I feel the same way! Part of me dreads acquiring my next 911, because I know firsthand how much of a hassle it can be to unload. If you trade it or sell it to a dealer you get screwed so the dealer can make a profit. If you try to sell it to an individual, you have to deal with annoying people like me, and the process can take a long time. And no matter what you do, you have to confront the reality of how much money you lost while owning your car. And that all assumes you didn't make any modifications to the car. If you upgrade your wheels or exhaust, you lose even more money on the deal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to eventually getting my next 911. But the longer I wait to buy, the better. These cars are just depreciating every day, and there are always more being listed for sale somewhere.

That reminds me ... time to go check the classifieds and "hot for sale" threads![/QUOTE

$76k is MMR. So anything close to that is good.

He wants 80. What do you want to spend? Easy enough to come together or walk away depending on that spread. If you are ready to purchase or mail a check that can also be persuasive to a seller.

Consider this. If this is basically the exact spec you're looking for and you pass on this car, when is the next one just like it going to become available? And at what price? I would hate to lose a season of driving and enjoyment for a couple k.

Not that I know any more than anyone else, but I don't think that "great deals" really exist. They're just "deals" that anyone else could get also (with rare exceptions), but that the seller is good at his/her job and makes the buyer think that they're special/better negotiator than everyone else.

I disagree. Sometimes one finds themself in the right place at the right time. I once picked up a ride that the owner wanted to sell ASAP due to a divorce that came up after he listed it. Or there are times someone wants to pursue an investment deal of some sort and make sense to them to dump a car in order to make more elsewhere. I wil agree that "great deals" are not that common but they do exist.

I agree. It is particularly hard when emotion gets in the way (for any type of deal). With cars, it is hard to keep the emotional side out since we are all passionate about our cars. I would like to see OP find a way to put this together. The car looks very nice.

As someone just said it's all about how patient you are, my father recently picked up a .1S with everything he wanted for what I think was a great price BUT he was looking for like 2 years (2012 full leather, SC, PDK, Premium+, parking, etc with 50k miles for $51k).
I (and most people) are not that patient so you pay a bit more but get your car sooner rather than later.
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Well, this was not the exact spec I was looking for. Close though -- probably 95%. Close enough that a motivated seller could certainly have reeled me in if he wanted to. Even though I was pushing him to let it go for something under $80K, I would have been willing to pay $80K or even more. I was just trying to haggle, but this seller didn't really want to play the game with me. He just was not very responsive to emails and did not seem interested in having a dialogue trying to meet in the middle. So, we'll probably never know exactly how close we could have gotten to a deal, but I think it was very close.

But I'm not sad, because while I was waiting for him to get back to me, I reconsidered another car I had looked at earlier. Looking at it with fresh eyes, I realized that it's actually an even better fit than the car that I started this thread about. And, this new seller is actually responsive and motivated. I'm getting the PPI on this latest car at this very moment, and will probably move forward with that purchase unless significant non-negotiable problems arise during the PPI. And the price will probably end up being just over $80K.

So everyone wins: The motivated and responsive seller unloads his car. The unmotivated seller gets to keep hunting for a buyer more desperate than me. And for me, the drawn-out negotiation with the unmotivated seller resulted in me finding another car that fits me better for about the same price. Ahhh ... the free market in action. It's a beautiful thing!

I agree. I think that in the process of trying to get a "great deal," you'll probably end up with just a "deal" (as you put it), and that's okay. But you've got to do at least a little haggling to ensure you don't unnecessarily pay too much.

With all due respect, I think you're supporting my argument. The seller made you think that you were special and "in the right place at the right time". Same with the seller who convinced you that he wanted to "dump" the car. Call me a skeptic, but I don't buy it. I've fallen for it too. At least now I realize that the deal isn't so special, but I'm willing to make the purchase for that price anyways. I think human nature makes most of us vulnerable to this sales tactic.

Agree with you when dealing with dealers but PP does have high variation in price. Some individuals value getting the money quickly and so trade some dollars for a quick sell, others have all the time in the world and so will look for the "right" buyer. Most are somewhere in between.

After a two month search, I just pulled the trigger on a 2013 C4S manual. I had similar angst about overpaying. Couple of thoughts that may help: these cars are not depreciating. At least right now. Values have been flat for close to a year. The fact that you are considering a car with a manual indicates that you want a manual. People tend to be polarized on that issue. When I looked, it seemed that only about 10% of what’s on the market are manuals, even though you’d think it would be higher because manual production was apparently 25% to 30%. I found that many aggregator websites classify cars as 7speed manuals and they turn out to be PDKs. Stupid AI maybe? So I think what you have found will be hard to duplicate. Also, I’ve bought CPO Porsches and non-CPO Porsches. I’m not too impressed with what CPO actually means. A PPi from someone with true Porsche expertise is much more important. I’ve spent between $350 and $500 for them.