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Are button switch packs swappable without reprogramming?
When I got my PSE installed a few weeks ago, one of the necessary parts was a new button switch pack. As has been mentioned before, you can't buy just a PSE keycap - you must buy the whole $200 pack with ALL the buttons.
During the install, we came across some issues that prompted us to use the old, original switch pack instead of the sparkly new one. The tech thought there was a problem with the pack... but also fixed an incorrectly installed vacuum tube connector. I think the switch pack was fine.
I would like to try reinstalling the new switch pack and see if the PSE still works. All the buttons would stay in the same order. Can I make the swap without having to put the car on a PIWIS for reprogramming?
Unfortunately, you will have to connect-up to PIWIS and run a reprogram. The CAN won't recognize the new button(s) instance just by creating the connection. Same reason you can't just move the buttons around in the switch pack, or have to change the whole darn pack just to add a feature/button.
One thought if you can't/won't get the dealer to do the reprogram -- you could try to find a Porsche indy shop that has the PIWIS laptop. Maybe they would do it for nothin' or at least cheaper than the dealer? Or, just go to a good car electronics shop and have them wire-up a button for you using one of the blanks to switch the valves. Just wouldn't be the factory programming in that case.
Unfortunately, you will have to connect-up to PIWIS and run a reprogram. The CAN won't recognize the new button(s) instance just by creating the connection. Same reason you can't just move the buttons around in the switch pack, or have to change the whole darn pack just to add a feature/button.
One thought if you can't/won't get the dealer to do the reprogram -- you could try to find a Porsche indy shop that has the PIWIS laptop. Maybe they would do it for nothin' or at least cheaper than the dealer? Or, just go to a good car electronics shop and have them wire-up a button for you using one of the blanks to switch the valves. Just wouldn't be the factory programming in that case.
If I understand what the OP is saying, it’s that the PSE button was installed on the OLD ‘switch pack’ and he wants to move it over to the new (so it’s already been programmed & he will place everything in the same spot on the new, hence - “All the buttons would stay in the same order”). I would EXPECT this to work but, worst case, I can’t see you would lose anything by trying (YMMV). One caution I would make to the OP. I used a HIGHLY reputable (I routinely see late model Lambos & F-cars there) independent shop to do the install of PSE & they ended up having problems programming the PSE button with their “PIWIS” (I cant say 100% it was PIWIS or something else) so I went to the dealer to finish - I think it’s getting harder and harder to find an independent shop with the programming capabilities on the newer P-cars (991+). Consider that the Durametrics, which could ENABLE/PROGRAM (not just clear codes, read DME, and test components) some functions on the 997s, cannot do the equivalent on 991+. OP - let us know what you find! -Dom
If I understand what the OP is saying, it’s that the PSE button was installed on the OLD ‘switch pack’ and he wants to move it over to the new (so it’s already been programmed & he will place everything in the same spot on the new, hence - “All the buttons would stay in the same order”). I would EXPECT this to work but, worst case, I can’t see you would lose anything by trying (YMMV). One caution I would make to the OP. I used a HIGHLY reputable (I routinely see late model Lambos & F-cars there) independent shop to do the install of PSE & they ended up having problems programming the PSE button with their “PIWIS” (I cant say 100% it was PIWIS or something else) so I went to the dealer to finish - I think it’s getting harder and harder to find an independent shop with the programming capabilities on the newer P-cars (991+). Consider that the Durametrics, which could ENABLE/PROGRAM (not just clear codes, read DME, and test components) some functions on the 997s, cannot do the equivalent on 991+. OP - let us know what you find! -Dom
Ok - sorry if I misunderstood. What I keyed on was that OP stated "When I got my PSE installed a few weeks ago, one of the necessary parts was a new button switch pack." Assumed he meant the PSE was installed on a non-PSE car, and when they added the switchpack with PSE button it didn't work. If he had the PSE installed by a P-car dealer or shop they should have programmed the new switch pack.
Ok - sorry if I misunderstood. What I keyed on was that OP stated "When I got my PSE installed a few weeks ago, one of the necessary parts was a new button switch pack." Assumed he meant the PSE was installed on a non-PSE car, and when they added the switchpack with PSE button it didn't work. If he had the PSE installed by a P-car dealer or shop they should have programmed the new switch pack.
Hi all - sorry for the delay. I had along day - kid's birthday party.
OK, so - A dealer installed my PSE and it works completely fine as of now. They programmed it with the new switch pack and couldn't get the programming to work properly. So they went back to the old switch pack, put the PSE key cap into it, programmed it and it worked. HOWEVER, one of the things they ALSO did when going back to the old pack, was fix a faulty vacuum tube connection. So I don't think it was the switch pack that was the problem. I think it was the vacuum connection.
I'd like to put the new switch pack back on. It was programmed for PSE by the dealer on their first try, so if I were to put it back in the car, its buttons should already be programmed properly for PSE, no?
Sorry if my explanation was (or still is!) confusing.
Hi all - sorry for the delay. I had along day - kid's birthday party.
OK, so - A dealer installed my PSE and it works completely fine as of now. They programmed it with the new switch pack and couldn't get the programming to work properly. So they went back to the old switch pack, put the PSE key cap into it, programmed it and it worked. HOWEVER, one of the things they ALSO did when going back to the old pack, was fix a faulty vacuum tube connection. So I don't think it was the switch pack that was the problem. I think it was the vacuum connection.
I'd like to put the new switch pack back on. It was programmed for PSE by the dealer on their first try, so if I were to put it back in the car, its buttons should already be programmed properly for PSE, no?
Sorry if my explanation was (or still is!) confusing.
Well, it depends..... LOL. If what "wasn't working" when you installed the new switch pack was the COV or vacuum line, and that has been corrected -- then yes, you should be ok with the new switches. The key point was that the switch pack has to be programmed to the car. As long as the new switch pack was programmed, then shouldn't be an issue. I can only think of one possibility where the new pack wouldn't work without reprogramming -- when a switch pack is installed and programmed, does the programming contain some key matched to each particular switch box, and to switch-back to the new box in that case you might need to reprogram "again." Make sense? But in any case -- Why aren't you getting the dealer to do this? Seems this would all be within "warranty" of the PSE installation, as likely the vacuum line they installed / modified when you added PSE is something they left undone or pulled-off. So why not ask them to put the new switch pack back in? Did they disagree to do it for some reason, or insist the old pack was fine?
But in any case -- Why aren't you getting the dealer to do this? Seems this would all be within "warranty" of the PSE installation, as likely the vacuum line they installed / modified when you added PSE is something they left undone or pulled-off. So why not ask them to put the new switch pack back in? Did they disagree to do it for some reason, or insist the old pack was fine?
Because it really doesn't matter, when it comes down to it. I'd feel a little silly asking the dealer to replace an identical switch pack simply because it's "new." There's no difference in the packs - I just kind of want the new one in there. Also I think it's solidly in the camp of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Unfortunately, you will have to connect-up to PIWIS and run a reprogram. The CAN won't recognize the new button(s) instance just by creating the connection. Same reason you can't just move the buttons around in the switch pack, or have to change the whole darn pack just to add a feature/button.
One thought if you can't/won't get the dealer to do the reprogram -- you could try to find a Porsche indy shop that has the PIWIS laptop. Maybe they would do it for nothin' or at least cheaper than the dealer? Or, just go to a good car electronics shop and have them wire-up a button for you using one of the blanks to switch the valves. Just wouldn't be the factory programming in that case.
At the risk of sounding petty, the communication is done using LIN bus
I have done some work on it based on zapta/linbus project to inject the button press on startup, https://github.com/amet/linbus
I would love to know if the new button pack is just blank or is it preprogrammed... and I bet I could monkey it to move the buttons around. it probably wouldn't be worth the time and effort, but 90% of the things we do to our cars isn't
The new button pack was blank when I got it from Sonnen, I assume. I added all the button caps and brought it to the dealer to use for my PSE install. They installed the pack, programmed it, but couldn't get the PSE working right, so they went back to the old switch pack to remove that variable. I believe the actual problem was not the new switch pack but the poorly connected vacuum line that they also fixed.
But back to your question: I think it is currently programmed.
Just for kicks, if interested in taking apart and viewing the innards of the center console switch pack -- following is a blog post I made back in 2015 when I was messing around with the switches on my '14 C4S.... Porsche 991 911 Center Console Switch Box Deconstruction Disassembly is not that difficult. My post did not go as deep into the "matrix" as @amet has gone with LIN, but at least you'll know what is in the box...
@mgordon18 from what I can understand yes, you should be able to switch the board - out from the "old" to the "new".
03-09-2019, 01:41 AM
Are button switch packs swappable without reprogramming?
