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I DD a 991.2 4 GTS. I love my time in my car and will take every opportunity to take the long route to and fro work.
the GT3 Touring is really Really a lovely car in my eyes and if I had to an opportunity to order again between my GTS and a GT3 Touring (GT3 Touring was not yet out when I ordered the GTS), I think there would have been a very likely chance that I would have ordered the GT3 Touring. But the only reason would be that it had 50 more horses more than the GTS and it didn't have a wing. I like the classic look better. and I like to keep the car stock as much as possible and the if I could I would have gotten the highest HP non-wing car I can get.
With that said, I've never driven the GT3, but I DD my GTS and regularly track the car. I have to this day never felt this car is lacking in power, performance, and comfort, in any way. I recently did a five hour road trip of nearly 500km and loved every moment. I go to track about once a month and continuously get totally humbled by how amazing the car is and how much more I need to learn in order to fully appreciate the car's capabilities. and I DD in between. Yeah I it would be nice to have the GT3 Touring badge and be proud of my 500 horses, but my GTS is over and above a superstar in comfort and performance, even with 50 horses less.
i'm not sure if you are in the same thinking bubble as me but if it is just slight cosmetic looks, a badge, and extra horses that get you attracted to the GT3 Touring, just chip your GTS (assuming you have 991.2) and you will instantly have the same or possibly more power than the GT3, and still have the same amazing DD comforts of your GTS, which is from what I read and hear is much more comfortable than the GT3 for daily driving. that is exactly what I will be doing once my warranty runs out.
I have a 991.2 C4 GTS PDK that I bought last year while waiting for a Touring allocation. Plan was to trade the GTS when I was able to get a Touring. My '19 Touring arrives this March. I like the GTS4 too much to part with it, so I plan to keep both. They complement each other nicely, one AWD/Turbo/PDK and the other RWD/NA/6spd Best of both worlds.
I have a 991.2 C4 GTS PDK that I bought last year while waiting for a Touring allocation. Plan was to trade the GTS when I was able to get a Touring. My '19 Touring arrives this March. I like the GTS4 too much to part with it, so I plan to keep both. They complement each other nicely, one AWD/Turbo/PDK and the other RWD/NA/6spd Best of both worlds.
I have a 991.2 C4 GTS PDK that I bought last year while waiting for a Touring allocation. Plan was to trade the GTS when I was able to get a Touring. My '19 Touring arrives this March. I like the GTS4 too much to part with it, so I plan to keep both. They complement each other nicely, one AWD/Turbo/PDK and the other RWD/NA/6spd Best of both worlds.
That's what I did as well. It's so hard to pick a favorite, they're both so good, in slightly different ways.
The 991.2 GT3 has 11% more Hp. That's good, but the GT3 has 14% less torque than the GTS or S with X51 PowerKit. And the GT3 torque curve is very peaky compared to the fat and broad torque curve of the GTS. Not so good.
In simple terms, what that means is the GTS is just as fast as the GT3 at US legal speeds. Only at felony level speeds, where Hp rules, is the GT3 faster on US streets and highways. Hmm...
Put simply, the GTS is a great street car that can be tracked. The GT3 is a great track car that can be street driven. I'd love a GT3, especially with that rear wing. But my use is primarily street use. And i love options like SPASM, sunroof, ventilated leather seats, parking sensors, etc. that are not available on the GT3. And I prefer 5 lug wheels. And a discounted price. So my loaded C2S with X51 is the best choice for me. I just need to find a rear wing i like and add it.
I had a .2 GTS and now have .2 GT3. The first time I drove the GT3 I felt like I finally understood the "completely different animal" statement that people make about GT cars.
I don't daily the GT3 but I can't tell you that its not a significantly worse ride than the GTS with SPASM. It's definitely stiffer, but where I really notice the GT3's stiffness is in the turns. The GT3 feels so much flatter and more stable. Going over bumps and on rough roads the GT3 feels a touch harsher, but it's really well dampened and never feels nervous or crashy like an M3 or something (and NY roads are terrible). Somehow my wife feels that the GT3 is MORE comfortable than the GTS because of the stiffness and less roll. But everyone is different. There are people on RL who felt that SPASM on a GTS was not comfortable for them.
Honestly, from a daily driving perspective one of the biggest differences might be in the seats. The light weight bucket seats (LWBS) totally change the driving experience for me. I'm relatively comfortable in them but it does take slightly more effort getting in and out of the car. The seats put your body in a pretty aggressive driving position (and somehow puts my brain in a more aggressive driving position as well!). Frankly while I would not hesitate to daily the GT3, I might think twice about the LWBS. For a daily driver I'd probably want something more adjustable and a bit more cushy. It's tough though because the LWBS are so awesome and it would be hard for me to build a GT car without them now.
In stock form the GT3 is definitely not "too loud", although this is subjective as well. Below 5k RPM is quite civilized. Above that it's a monster. There are many people out there that actually don't think it is loud enough!
The engine is so F'n glorious. I know I don't have to say much here but it's impossible to not feel giddy when pushing this engine. The GTS was a great car as well, but I personally felt that it lacked the "special" feeling that I wanted in a car that gets used once every couple weeks. I can only speak for myself but I couldn't be happier with the GT3. The car is such a joy to drive, for me, significantly more so than my GTS was. GT3, do it!
great description by Porsche Frank. The GT3 is such a special experience to drive. Much more emotion, razor sharp throttle response compared to any turbo, and it handles much more like a sports car compared to a GTS, but its still comfortable to drive. And with the touring you can now get that experience in a more understated outer package (compared to a winged GT3). But as frank mentions, the bucket seats can be a bit less comfortable than LWB, particularly for a weekend trip.
If you are counting HP and Torque numbers, you are missing the whole point of the GT3. The driving experience is so very different. GTS is an awesome car but did not give me the silly smile the GT3 does, it is much more of an occasion when you take it out. Too bad it is hard to find an allocation to build to your needs and I am not one that believes in ADM's
The 991.2 GT3 has 11% more Hp. That's good, but the GT3 has 14% less torque than the GTS or S with X51 PowerKit. And the GT3 torque curve is very peaky compared to the fat and broad torque curve of the GTS. Not so good.
In simple terms, what that means is the GTS is just as fast as the GT3 at US legal speeds. Only at felony level speeds, where Hp rules, is the GT3 faster on US streets and highways. Hmm... Put simply, the GTS is a great street car that can be tracked. The GT3 is a great track car that can be street driven. I'd love a GT3, especially with that rear wing. But my use is primarily street use. And i love options like SPASM, sunroof, ventilated leather seats, parking sensors, etc. that are not available on the GT3. And I prefer 5 lug wheels. And a discounted price. So my loaded C2S with X51 is the best choice for me. I just need to find a rear wing i like and add it.
I have a 991.1 GTS PDK cab which I am keeping as my DD. I have an incoming GT3T. Totally different driving experiences. After taking a PDK GT3 on the "track" at PEC LA, I could not believe how "civilized" (some might say "boring") my GTS felt in comparison. In "normal" mode and in the normal chassis setting, the GTS feels and sounds like a luxury sedan to me. But the beauty of the GTS is that with the push of a few buttons and by shifting into manual mode, the car is very sporty. It is a beast - just not a GT3 beast. My GTS makes an awesome DD: 4 ways, Burmester, heat seaters and coolers and top down driving in So Cal is hard to beat. But, the GT3 is in an entirely different driving stratosphere. The sound, the steering feel, the chassis, the delivery of horsepower - it is a much more visceral experience compared to the GTS. For me, driving a GT3 is like going to the gym. It is both and mental and physical workout. I plan on occasionally driving my Touring to work (bumper to bumper traffic from the beach to BH) but for the most part, the GTS cab will remain my very long-term (like, forever) daily driver and the Touring will be my weekend fun car.
At the end of the day, it just depends on what you are looking for in your car. Both are great cars in very different ways.
I'd NEVER get rid of a car that could drop its top for one that couldn't, especially for a car that is only driven in nice weather or weekends, or daily driving, or long distance cruising, or...
But threads like this baffle me since I test drove just about every model there was and price was not a concern: how can someone ask if they have they have not done the same?
If you are counting HP and Torque numbers, you are missing the whole point of the GT3. The driving experience is so very different. GTS is an awesome car but did not give me the silly smile the GT3 does, it is much more of an occasion when you take it out. Too bad it is hard to find an allocation to build to your needs and I am not one that believes in ADM's
Honestly, the GT3 doesn't wake up until about 5000 RPM and in most daily driving you are tootling around at 2000 RPM, unfortunately this is the reality for many. Thats why the GT3 works so well as a weekender and definitely as a track special. However there really isn't much pleasure to be had in nose to tail traffic, thats why a lot of guys have something else or indeed a Carrera and something else. For example I often use a truck in preference to any of my performance cars (inc. two P sports cars)
From the engagement POV the older GT3 models 997 and 996 are quite a lot more interesting particularly if you want to drive round in them all the time - certainly more visceral and edgy if thats your thing.
There are plenty of 991 GT3s on the used market (including series 2). If you speak to knowledgeable dealers they will give two primary reasons for this (1) a lot of people buy the badge but don't really like the reality - particularly those first timers coming across from large bi turbo luxo barges and (2) those that have already moved on to the next thing e.g. GT3 RS (II) or GT2 RS. They are a volume product.
In fact until very recently it was possible to get an allocation (in spite of what people on rennlist are saying), for both the GT3 and GT3 RS. Obviously this is dependent on the jurisdiction to some degree.
Thus in my jurisdiction, as of this morning there are ~ 50, 991 series GT3 (mainly series II) or GT3 RS (mainly series I) on the market and only 17, 991 GTS on the market.
As a final comment I do think the GT3 provides an "essence" of motorsport experience without it being the real thing - I do think is something a lot of guys enjoy and I think thats a fine thing.
I had a .2 GTS and now have .2 GT3. The first time I drove the GT3 I felt like I finally understood the "completely different animal" statement that people make about GT cars.
I don't daily the GT3 but I can't tell you that its not a significantly worse ride than the GTS with SPASM. It's definitely stiffer, but where I really notice the GT3's stiffness is in the turns. The GT3 feels so much flatter and more stable. Going over bumps and on rough roads the GT3 feels a touch harsher, but it's really well dampened and never feels nervous or crashy like an M3 or something (and NY roads are terrible). Somehow my wife feels that the GT3 is MORE comfortable than the GTS because of the stiffness and less roll. But everyone is different. There are people on RL who felt that SPASM on a GTS was not comfortable for them.
Honestly, from a daily driving perspective one of the biggest differences might be in the seats. The light weight bucket seats (LWBS) totally change the driving experience for me. I'm relatively comfortable in them but it does take slightly more effort getting in and out of the car. The seats put your body in a pretty aggressive driving position (and somehow puts my brain in a more aggressive driving position as well!). Frankly while I would not hesitate to daily the GT3, I might think twice about the LWBS. For a daily driver I'd probably want something more adjustable and a bit more cushy. It's tough though because the LWBS are so awesome and it would be hard for me to build a GT car without them now.
In stock form the GT3 is definitely not "too loud", although this is subjective as well. Below 5k RPM is quite civilized. Above that it's a monster. There are many people out there that actually don't think it is loud enough!
The engine is so F'n glorious. I know I don't have to say much here but it's impossible to not feel giddy when pushing this engine. The GTS was a great car as well, but I personally felt that it lacked the "special" feeling that I wanted in a car that gets used once every couple weeks. I can only speak for myself but I couldn't be happier with the GT3. The car is such a joy to drive, for me, significantly more so than my GTS was. GT3, do it!
I have a '19 Carrera T. Probably the best 911 I've ever had. Great DD, plenty of power, handles fantastic with a compliant and acceptable everyday suspension. It does everything well. I previously sold a 997.2 GT3 as it was too harsh of a car in how I use a 911. But I'm sure i would have ordered a GT3 Touring if I had the opportunity, even knowing now that the T is probably as perfect a 911 could be for me. I don't know what the hell is wrong with me...
01-08-2019, 09:37 AM
