dsddcd

Many are not happy with my comments about the GT3 Touring Model not really being anything but a Wingless GT3. They have not added back in any insulation or other creature comforts. When I purchased the car I really hoped it would be a good mix between my Turbo S and a GT3. Long story short I am investigating either a T or GTS RWD MT now as I believe it is a better fit for what I use it for.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to drive one yet, only the PDK, and was interested to know if the Flat Foot Shift in the GT3 was also in the Carrera, S, T or the GTS's. My one fear is that all the manual turbo cars I have had unlike a PDK they lose boost between gears and make it less fun to drive.

4pipes

Randy M

A few years back I had a 997.2 GT3 for a few thousand miles. It was an awesome car to have for a while. However it was just too focused for track use to use with any sort of regularity. From what I understand the 991.1 and .2 cars are a bit more compliant in suspension, lighter clutch and generally a more approachable car than my old 997.2 but they're still very much built for very smooth roads and track use. GT3's often trade hands with very low miles for these reasons imo. Even still, I'd love to have a 991.2 GT3.

I enjoyed two weeks in Germany/Austria taking euro delivery of my new T. It was an excellent car for the black forest drive, several alpine passes and the autobahn. I had a '17 GT350 that my wife never wanted to ride in but when we were over in Europe she did not complain even once and really enjoyed the trip in the Carrera T. It's on the ship now and should have it within two weeks. Cant wait to get it back.

dsddcd

That is great news to hear, many think I am crazy but we drive our cars and the GT3 seems more of a track car. I would bet that there is a much larger majority of the T's & GTS's that are driven regularly. Now that does not mean I don't really like the car in a perfect world I would have it sitting next to a T and that next to a Turbo S, but we already have more in our fleet than I want to manage. I called on a few cars today at minimum I am going to try to test drive a GTS, closest manual to me and make sure it is what I want. If I love it either A, I will talk trade or B, sell the GT3 and order a T or GTS. Any feedback on the differences between the GTS and T for you?

I like your taste in cars, my wife has a GTS Boxster and Macan S (GTS Spec'd before the GTS was available), I have a Denali and a Jeep that together are almost as cool as the Raptor and the GT350 is a fantastic car I tried to buy one a few times back in 2016 but the dealers were still asking $5-10K over so I bought a GT4 instead.

Randy M

I haven't driven a GTS but what I've read here is that it's obviously faster but it does have some turbo lag. the T has the shorter shifter and next to no lag at all. Smaller turbos spool faster. Many say that the T feels lighter and has a more lithe feel to it. I get the allure of the GT3 however and if I had an opportunity to order one I don't think I would have passed up the chance.

Both my wife and I love the Macan GTS and it really is a perfect car for her. She initially wanted a turbo but the GTS is the sweet spot in the lineup.

4pipes

Randy M

Didn't say i agreed with it lol. Many also say the turbo engine kills the sound of the flat 6. I think all of the guys who post that opinion are sniffing glue

dsddcd

So I drove a manual GTS today and there is definite lag between gears, as anticipated the flat foot shift option would certainly be beneficial to the .2 manual cars. If I opt to sell the GT3 for a GTS I believe it will have to be a PDK. I do love the torque, even in 7th gear at 50MPH has more power than the GT3 in a much lower gear. The engine mounts are tuned for less resonance when driving at normal speeds, but are rougher as the RPM's climb which is the inverse of the GT3. The GTS has a smoother transmission & clutch when driving around town but again as the RPM's increase the GT3 becomes butter smooth. The suspension & steering has less much less feel but still is confidence inspiring. As for engine noise, in the cabin there is a very similar sound and noise level which I would guess was attributed to the intake noise rather than exhaust. The take away for me is that the GTS is a true Sports Touring Car with little or no equal.

_RS_

Snap one up before it's too late! I envy the chance of owning and comparing various 991's, I feel happy to have chosen the GTS.

stout

Amen.

You've got to be low in the revs and lazy on the throttle to find the kind of lag critics seem to be talking about. I noticed it on 5 on the way to Los Angeles week before last, cruising in 7th gear at 2000~ rpm and leaning on the gas to make a pass while sipping my coffee. Lag? Sure, but a moment later came a nice surge with real acceleration. And where would I have been in a 991.1 Carrera/S/GTS in 7th? A fair ways back, waiting for useful torque that's gonna take a lot longer to arrive. Of course, you can still drop a .2 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th and drive it like an NA car—which never disappoints.

Does the 3.0 have the same throttle response as a 3.4 or 3.8? No, of course it doesn't—but I don't find it bothersome, either. Neither 991 Carrera-line car is a CGT, or even GT3 for that matter. Is turbo lag an issue with the 3.0, as it has been in so many 911 Turbos? Nope, at least not to me. I put about 10,000 miles on my first 991.2, and have about 2200 miles on this one—and I prefer the 3.0 turbo to the 3.8 in my old GT4 (which was, in fairness, hampered) in every way…

85Gold

Porsche-Jeck

Wow, never heard about this but makes me want to jump right into my T giving it a try @ stout: fully agree that there is no meaningful lag during in gear acceleration or even upshifts at lower rpm. Though my understanding is that the no lift shift concept helps with upshifts near redline. In this regard I can sense a short interruption in thrust when upshifting as fast as possible (think "dragrace mode") near redline, which I don't feel with the NA Porsches. Maybe this is what the OP is referring to and I am even not sure whether "lag" would be the right term to describe it. My understanding is that the term refers to the throttle response which IMHO is not a problem at all also for upshifting near redline - once you release the clutch for engaging the higher gear the car pulls responding to throttle input without hesitation. My perception is that the manual turbo car just looses a bit more of thrust momentum during the very short period when engine and transmission are "separated" while the clutch is pushed - and as said I do not feel this effect when upshifting "normally" it only happens when in "dragrace mode" trying to upshift as fast as possible near redline.

Valvefloat991

As the owner of a 991.2 C2, I think we should acknowledge that our engines have turbo lag, as they plainly do below 3000 rpm or so. We can also point out that the engines produce more torque than their 991.1 predecessors once they have transcended the lag. Most of us find that the greater torque is a worthwhile tradeoff for the low-rpm lag, but the lag still exists and denying its existence is denying reality.

As to the full-throttle upshifts, I haven't tried one, but the 991.2 engine definitely has a rev limiter at 7500 rpm. I have experienced this during track days, if I failed to shift the instant that my tach needle touched the 7400 rpm redline. I would think that this rev limiter would prevent any destructive over-revving if you did a full-throttle upshift with a manual transmission. However the subsequent clutch engagement might be on the rough side.

stout

Yes, of course the 3.0 has lag, and throttle response delay—but neither are anything like, say, a 930 (booooooOOOOST) or 996 Turbo X50 (boooOOST). It does a fair approximation of a normally-aspirated engine if you drive it like you would an NA car, but with the added dimension of a turbocharged engine if you get lazy in gear. I like both sensations.

The 3.0 will never be a CGT V10 or 2.2 MFI or GT3 4.0 (a few of Porsche's benchmarks when it comes to throttle response), but the 3.8 in my GT4 wasn't as sharp as any of those engines, either. And an old air-cooled 3.2 or 3.6 is hardly razor sharp either. The beauty of the 3.0 is it's a hybrid in terms of character—offering, effectively, most or all of the keeness and brightness and linear power of a NA flat six when you are on it with the low-down torque and "second dimension" of a twin-turbocharged flat six. It'll never be a replacement for the lusty old 2.2 in my 914, or the wildly thrilling engine in a new GT3. I can also see where it might be less interesting to someone who loves an NA flat six who only has space in their life for one 911, but it's a very cool addition to the 911 story—and I know a lot of very happy 3.0 drivers who have wilder iron at their disposal and simply love the 3.0 for its power and sweetness.

As for no-lift shifting? Color me skeptical—not that it can't be done, but that I'd be concerned about the mechanical effects in the longer term. I've never had to rebuild a transmission, or replace a clutch I started out on, and I'd like to keep it that way. Can get from here to there plenty quick in every Porsche I've driven...not sure I need those last tenths. Maybe someone can demonstrate it to me in their car. I'd feel bad trying it in a press car unless an engineer told me to. Never dropped a clutch in a 911 until I was supposed to evaluate the rather unusual launch control system in the 997 GT2 6MT, and haven't since. Just not the thrill I look for in a Porsche, though I can see its appeal in a Mustang et al. Flying to Germany this week, and will ask more about no-lift shifting...

Porsche-Jeck

Count me in - as long as my 997.1 GT3 with KW suspension, single mass fly wheel and shorter gearing qualifies for "wilder iron"
I love my manual T (9,000 km on the clock after 5 months) - perfect mix of DD-capability and driving fun on alpine roads - all this for a reasonable price in the Porsche universe