Carrera T vs Carrera S
10-13-2018, 03:07 PM
#16
In 1968 the Carrera T won the first Monte Carlo race for Porsche. 35 cars were holmuligated by Porsche for privateer race teams. Those cars came with the R (rally kit option) though it was never officially badged on the car. This option from Porsche gave the T a 50 kg reduction in weight by removing sound deadening, removing back seats, adding LSD, light weight door panels and door pulls, upgraded Koni suspension and up rated front and rear sway bars. Among other things like bigger oil coolers, and roll bar.
Compare the old T to the new T and you recognize and understand the design and build philosophy.
The last year of the T Porsche changed the car and gave it a new fuel injection system, exhaust, and a slight horsepower boost. The same thing they are doing to the proposed 992 version.
I do not see a plot or conspiracy by Porsche to dupe it’s loyal purist enthusiasts. I see a return to Porsche’s past reviving a great model design that was highly successful both on and off the track. FORD, CHEVY, AND DODGE have all done similar things with throw back cars of there own. Modern versions of past performance models.
The corvette grand sport is a lower HP cheaper priced version of there top tier car. Every review of the grand sport has said that it is actually a better all around car to drive and enjoy.
I agree with SS ANALYSES ultimately with the 3.0 cars the safe reliable ceiling for HP and TQ is the same across the line up. It doesn’t matter what body the engine is in. If the 3.0 is capable of safely and reliably producing (hypothetical value) 600 hp the question becomes what’s the cheapest way to get to 600 horsepower wth the best chassis setup. I would say the T offers the best chassis setup for the best price and the ease of HP increase demonstrated by Cobb and BGB and others would lend to the T being a cheaper build. Resulting in a overall lighter finished product. This is the same philosophy Porsche used in 1968 and why they chose the T over the S to holmuligate and send to Monte Carlo.
Compare the old T to the new T and you recognize and understand the design and build philosophy.
The last year of the T Porsche changed the car and gave it a new fuel injection system, exhaust, and a slight horsepower boost. The same thing they are doing to the proposed 992 version.
I do not see a plot or conspiracy by Porsche to dupe it’s loyal purist enthusiasts. I see a return to Porsche’s past reviving a great model design that was highly successful both on and off the track. FORD, CHEVY, AND DODGE have all done similar things with throw back cars of there own. Modern versions of past performance models.
The corvette grand sport is a lower HP cheaper priced version of there top tier car. Every review of the grand sport has said that it is actually a better all around car to drive and enjoy.
I agree with SS ANALYSES ultimately with the 3.0 cars the safe reliable ceiling for HP and TQ is the same across the line up. It doesn’t matter what body the engine is in. If the 3.0 is capable of safely and reliably producing (hypothetical value) 600 hp the question becomes what’s the cheapest way to get to 600 horsepower wth the best chassis setup. I would say the T offers the best chassis setup for the best price and the ease of HP increase demonstrated by Cobb and BGB and others would lend to the T being a cheaper build. Resulting in a overall lighter finished product. This is the same philosophy Porsche used in 1968 and why they chose the T over the S to holmuligate and send to Monte Carlo.
10-13-2018, 03:14 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
The following users liked this post:
Jeahbladejeah (01-08-2020)
10-13-2018, 03:19 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
^^^ Both these above. Geez. Maybe threads like this are worthwhile after all... Thanks for that info, guys.Much I didn't know and greatly appreciate!
To be clear, I am not bashing anyone's decisions. Anyone that can afford one of these cars, in any stripe, is a lucky person. But when I see some of the stuff slung around here, I like to comment. Whether it's useful or not is up to you...
And just for grins:
Carrera Targa 4 GTS Build at USD 159,540
S
To be clear, I am not bashing anyone's decisions. Anyone that can afford one of these cars, in any stripe, is a lucky person. But when I see some of the stuff slung around here, I like to comment. Whether it's useful or not is up to you...
And just for grins:
Carrera Targa 4 GTS Build at USD 159,540
S
10-13-2018, 06:24 PM
#19
I had a 2017 Carrera S - PDK RWS and traded it for a 2019 Carrera T - MT RWS
The manual T, at least in my opinion, is hands down a much more fun and engaging road car. 50 more hp on any road in the country simply isn't necessary or noticeable for the everyday driving and enjoyment that the T provides in engaging you in the overall driving experience. It is the closest I've come to returning to the engaging experience that my original 84 Carrera provided. Porsche got this one nearly perfect.
The PDK, while spectacular in how fast it shifts, just isn't as much fun for everyday driving. On the street in auto mode it goes through the gears to 6th and 7th gear so fast in normal driving that you're constantly clicking the paddles back to lower gears if you don't have the ability to put your foot into it due to traffic, and driving in manual mode shifting with paddles for everyday driving just doesn't seem to be what these cars are all about.
The S with PDK compared to the T with MT to me seemed to be more of a luxury sports car, quieter, more comfortable ride and not as engaging - great car if you drive in a lot of traffic but no more engaging than a BMW or any other comparable car after you put a few hours in it.
They are both great cars, but from having both in the last year to compare with the kind of driving I do, the T is by far the more overall enjoyable experience.
The manual T, at least in my opinion, is hands down a much more fun and engaging road car. 50 more hp on any road in the country simply isn't necessary or noticeable for the everyday driving and enjoyment that the T provides in engaging you in the overall driving experience. It is the closest I've come to returning to the engaging experience that my original 84 Carrera provided. Porsche got this one nearly perfect.
The PDK, while spectacular in how fast it shifts, just isn't as much fun for everyday driving. On the street in auto mode it goes through the gears to 6th and 7th gear so fast in normal driving that you're constantly clicking the paddles back to lower gears if you don't have the ability to put your foot into it due to traffic, and driving in manual mode shifting with paddles for everyday driving just doesn't seem to be what these cars are all about.
The S with PDK compared to the T with MT to me seemed to be more of a luxury sports car, quieter, more comfortable ride and not as engaging - great car if you drive in a lot of traffic but no more engaging than a BMW or any other comparable car after you put a few hours in it.
They are both great cars, but from having both in the last year to compare with the kind of driving I do, the T is by far the more overall enjoyable experience.
10-14-2018, 03:19 AM
#20
Racer
I went for the s drove both and speced them out for me difference was about 9k.
Pdk for me so it was a no brainer s makes more sense.
About 9k gives me:
More power and torque with warranty
PTV+
E diff
Larger brakes/ more pistons
I lose out on some trim pieces and sound deadening and gorilla glass
I think if it were the manual tranny on both cars the t makes good sense.
As far as mods, you would lose warranty as well as cpo or 3rd party extended warranty and with the expense of replacing the pdk etc, not sure I would even risk losing that for a bit more power.
Pdk for me so it was a no brainer s makes more sense.
About 9k gives me:
More power and torque with warranty
PTV+
E diff
Larger brakes/ more pistons
I lose out on some trim pieces and sound deadening and gorilla glass
I think if it were the manual tranny on both cars the t makes good sense.
As far as mods, you would lose warranty as well as cpo or 3rd party extended warranty and with the expense of replacing the pdk etc, not sure I would even risk losing that for a bit more power.
10-14-2018, 12:03 PM
#22
The .1 v .2 threads have dried up (thank goodness) so I guess it makes sense for some .2 folks who want to get back in the game.
The choice to buy a particular variant is typically decided by one's financial resources, hopefully by personal experience via test drive(s), google searches and the biased opinions from those in the 991 forum on RL (if I bought a T/S, I'm gonna tell you to buy a T/S to validate my decision).
Carry on people!!!
10-14-2018, 12:32 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
True, everyone has their own criteria and only they can decide. I don’t think anyone can change anyone’s mind.
i just spending time on the forum since its a long wait
every 911 is unique there is no one better or less than another. Just a car...just enjoy what you have
i just spending time on the forum since its a long wait
every 911 is unique there is no one better or less than another. Just a car...just enjoy what you have
10-14-2018, 12:33 PM
#24
It's pretty interesting to see this happen here. You would think people who can afford these cars would be rather successful, confident people, who don't need to seek public confirmation and attention. But that doesn't always seem to be the case.
The T is a great car, I would get it if you have use for options like rear seat delete, clothes interior etc. The wonderful thing about porsche is they have a billion options and packaged into 20+ variations of the same car. So everyone can choose and pick what they like, and everyone can feel like a special little snowflake <3
10-14-2018, 12:47 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Lol..emotional masturbation...
I like to play along, we all have been there at one point.
i really liked the 718 handling and rawness, cabin noise, the T definitely has more cabin noise. Also manual made more sense with T and PDK with S.
I spent weeks on Manual vs PDK, AWD vs RWD and finally ended up with T vs S
if you want To order with your choice of option hurry up allocations are running short, we should see 992 in spring on the road. Porsche is not going to wait for fall of next year
I like to play along, we all have been there at one point.
i really liked the 718 handling and rawness, cabin noise, the T definitely has more cabin noise. Also manual made more sense with T and PDK with S.
I spent weeks on Manual vs PDK, AWD vs RWD and finally ended up with T vs S
if you want To order with your choice of option hurry up allocations are running short, we should see 992 in spring on the road. Porsche is not going to wait for fall of next year
10-14-2018, 12:49 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
The only real shame of the T is the smaller turbos and no "official": upgrade path...
You can keep the PCCB brakes, but a version of the T that was available from Porsche with the powerkit (gts) turbos, keeping the shorter gearing, in manual with full buckets (plus aftermarket DSC sport PASM controller + Cobb tune) would be a weapon.
Of course it would likely become another unobtanium halo car if they did offer it.
You can keep the PCCB brakes, but a version of the T that was available from Porsche with the powerkit (gts) turbos, keeping the shorter gearing, in manual with full buckets (plus aftermarket DSC sport PASM controller + Cobb tune) would be a weapon.
Of course it would likely become another unobtanium halo car if they did offer it.
10-14-2018, 01:32 PM
#29
I had a 2017 Carrera S - PDK RWS and traded it for a 2019 Carrera T - MT RWS
The manual T, at least in my opinion, is hands down a much more fun and engaging road car. 50 more hp on any road in the country simply isn't necessary or noticeable for the everyday driving and enjoyment that the T provides in engaging you in the overall driving experience. It is the closest I've come to returning to the engaging experience that my original 84 Carrera provided. Porsche got this one nearly perfect.
The PDK, while spectacular in how fast it shifts, just isn't as much fun for everyday driving. On the street in auto mode it goes through the gears to 6th and 7th gear so fast in normal driving that you're constantly clicking the paddles back to lower gears if you don't have the ability to put your foot into it due to traffic, and driving in manual mode shifting with paddles for everyday driving just doesn't seem to be what these cars are all about.
The S with PDK compared to the T with MT to me seemed to be more of a luxury sports car, quieter, more comfortable ride and not as engaging - great car if you drive in a lot of traffic but no more engaging than a BMW or any other comparable car after you put a few hours in it.
They are both great cars, but from having both in the last year to compare with the kind of driving I do, the T is by far the more overall enjoyable experience.
The manual T, at least in my opinion, is hands down a much more fun and engaging road car. 50 more hp on any road in the country simply isn't necessary or noticeable for the everyday driving and enjoyment that the T provides in engaging you in the overall driving experience. It is the closest I've come to returning to the engaging experience that my original 84 Carrera provided. Porsche got this one nearly perfect.
The PDK, while spectacular in how fast it shifts, just isn't as much fun for everyday driving. On the street in auto mode it goes through the gears to 6th and 7th gear so fast in normal driving that you're constantly clicking the paddles back to lower gears if you don't have the ability to put your foot into it due to traffic, and driving in manual mode shifting with paddles for everyday driving just doesn't seem to be what these cars are all about.
The S with PDK compared to the T with MT to me seemed to be more of a luxury sports car, quieter, more comfortable ride and not as engaging - great car if you drive in a lot of traffic but no more engaging than a BMW or any other comparable car after you put a few hours in it.
They are both great cars, but from having both in the last year to compare with the kind of driving I do, the T is by far the more overall enjoyable experience.
I also feel that comparing any Porsche to a BMW is simply parroting the internet. I don't know how anybody with a pulse who has actually driven a BMW can say that - and yes we have a BMW too so this is first hand. Everytime we get a maintenance loaner of a 3-4 series I'm astounded that they sell these things for $50K.
10-14-2018, 02:21 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
I disagree. The only time I find the PDK boring is when I want it to be. Otherwise, it is in sport mode with high revs and stupid-fast shifts. Hardly quiet. The metamorphosis that Porsches make between driving modes is astounding. Maybe you found yourself always driving your S in normal mode??
I also feel that comparing any Porsche to a BMW is simply parroting the internet. I don't know how anybody with a pulse who has actually driven a BMW can say that - and yes we have a BMW too so this is first hand. Everytime we get a maintenance loaner of a 3-4 series I'm astounded that they sell these things for $50K.
I also feel that comparing any Porsche to a BMW is simply parroting the internet. I don't know how anybody with a pulse who has actually driven a BMW can say that - and yes we have a BMW too so this is first hand. Everytime we get a maintenance loaner of a 3-4 series I'm astounded that they sell these things for $50K.
BMW sales, on the other hand, are the envy of many. The resulting problem should be keeping Porsche product planners up at night...
As for this thread, I'd take a Carrera S in a spec appealing to me (e.g. 7MT with SPASM) over a Carrera T in one that isn't (e.g. PDK + moonroof). And vice versa. Configured the same way, more or less? Then it would be down to price and my slight preference for the character of the 370hp engine. If ordering new, I'd probably rather have PCCB on a T than a more powerful S without PCCB. Your mileage may vary...which is why it's great that these choices exist.