Question from a person new to Porsche
10-11-2018, 11:26 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
From someone who took 9 months to pick out a 911 I will give my 2 cents. The cars you referenced in post are so different that it seems you need to figure out what you enjoy the best and take into consideration your driving habits. I am not one for buying a car to sit on and not use, rather to drive and enjoy it. Not that I am against people doing that as they preserve some good basically unused cars for others to get deals on so I am all for that really. If you plan to really drive it though, my suggestion would be to instead of trying to predict the future on what a car will be worth later, would you not rather decide what car is best for you that you will enjoy the most? There are so many variations of the 911 alone and that is before you start throwing in the Cayman. Do you plan to just drive this around town? Drive on weekends only? Go to road course tracks? Do you have small children that would benefit from back seat? Want the fastest one there is in a straight line? Do spirited mountain drives? Do you like open tops? targas? AWD? Is the exhaust/engine sound important to you? Is this a daily driver or second car? Is having the best or rare important for your appearance? The hard thing about choosing a Porsche is there are so many variations as well as options for the variations that it makes it hard to figure out what is best one for you and confusing. The cool thing about Porsche is there are so many variations and options that you can find the perfect one for you, just takes test driving and researching. I would make a list of what is important to you and get someone familiar with the whole line or a trusted sales rep to help using that as a starting point. If you are unsure about what you will need/want or how far into the performance driving you will get yourself then I would start with a CPO base model that way when you figure it out and trade in a year or less and there is less money to lose because it wasnt as high of a price to begin with.
10-11-2018, 11:50 AM
#32
Even though these cars depreciate, they hold value fairly well and they don't drop like rocks like BMW/Mercedes etc.
Jaguar is rebranded junk just like Maserati. Those names are simply marketing tools nowadays. I cringe at new Maseratis.. The Ghibli is the new 30k millionaire car.
Jaguar is rebranded junk just like Maserati. Those names are simply marketing tools nowadays. I cringe at new Maseratis.. The Ghibli is the new 30k millionaire car.
there is no one best car. If everyone drove a Porsche I would ride my bike. I’m happy to see all the beautiful cars on the road and race trace.
if you really want to enjoy a Porsche, don’t stretch your budget. You can have fun with a Cayman at $80k as you would with a 911 TT at $200k. As long as you are not stressed over cost.
can you park it anywhere? Drive it rain or shine? Take it on longer trips? Let a friend drive?
The more your drive drive your car the happier you will be. If you stress over cost, you will never truly enjoy the car.
advice from a guy that is currently without a sports car.
10-11-2018, 12:07 PM
#33
Drive a pre-2017 911S and a newer base 911 and see which you prefer. They are similar in speed, but much different in feel. The pre-2017s are NA engines vs a turbo. I had a '12 Cayman S that I ordered from the factory, loved the car and kept it for about 5 years, then traded for a '13 Carrera S. The 911 was loaded with great features that my Cayman didn't have like full leather interior. I was able to get it for about 40% off the original MSRP with a two year CPO warranty. I like it so much, I'm now going to buy an extended warranty and hold it for another 3 years or so. The rear engine cars are a much different feel than the mid-engine. All that weight in the back really helps put the traction down.
10-11-2018, 12:11 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
First never trust what the SA says they usually know less then most educated buyers. Their only goal in life is to take as much $ out of your pocket as possible.
i have had a lot of experience in leasing and buying cars in life. Most SAs are scared of me but I don’t waste their time and tell them not to waste mine.
first thing first: You need to test drive all of them and see what you like best...Do NOT decide on any of those choices without doing at least a 30min drive.
then spend enough time on the interior to make sure you like it.
After you decide what you like (thats all that matters) then research forum for pricing.
After you like something, tell the SA to ask the manager what his best discount is, they will come back with a low number or some BS about zero discount. Just ask them if thats the best they can do and walk away. Do not agree on the first number.
if you decide on a new 718 shoot for 8% discount at least
if you decide on the new 911 shoot for 5% discount at least
if you like the Carrera T and they have 5 then you are in luck to pick the best of the lot and get a really good discount. Ball is in your court. Also when ready to make final deal go on last day of the month and throw a number like 100k for 130k car and also negotiate freebies like rubber mats, accessories and even prepaid maintenance...you will be surprised what you can get
I personally would not get a Turbo, Turbo S or GT car as my first. TTS is crazy fast and less fun in my opinion as you get to speedlimits and beyond really quick, less enjoyable for me. I like a car that feels fast all the time. GT cars are stiff and can be harsh for daily drives. Really meant for track. I have seen guys on track with them who don’t know how to drive at all. I had a guy with GT3 RS have a melt down in drivers debrief because I was riding his bumper in my Miata...it was funny as hell...he felt I was too close to him...
take one step at a time...test drive and decide what you want first
oh and Porsche lease Money Factor is high, so leasing a 100k plus car is more expensive than buying. Unless you have no concern about $ and just like something new ever 2-3 years then by all means lease
i have had a lot of experience in leasing and buying cars in life. Most SAs are scared of me but I don’t waste their time and tell them not to waste mine.
first thing first: You need to test drive all of them and see what you like best...Do NOT decide on any of those choices without doing at least a 30min drive.
then spend enough time on the interior to make sure you like it.
After you decide what you like (thats all that matters) then research forum for pricing.
After you like something, tell the SA to ask the manager what his best discount is, they will come back with a low number or some BS about zero discount. Just ask them if thats the best they can do and walk away. Do not agree on the first number.
if you decide on a new 718 shoot for 8% discount at least
if you decide on the new 911 shoot for 5% discount at least
if you like the Carrera T and they have 5 then you are in luck to pick the best of the lot and get a really good discount. Ball is in your court. Also when ready to make final deal go on last day of the month and throw a number like 100k for 130k car and also negotiate freebies like rubber mats, accessories and even prepaid maintenance...you will be surprised what you can get
I personally would not get a Turbo, Turbo S or GT car as my first. TTS is crazy fast and less fun in my opinion as you get to speedlimits and beyond really quick, less enjoyable for me. I like a car that feels fast all the time. GT cars are stiff and can be harsh for daily drives. Really meant for track. I have seen guys on track with them who don’t know how to drive at all. I had a guy with GT3 RS have a melt down in drivers debrief because I was riding his bumper in my Miata...it was funny as hell...he felt I was too close to him...
take one step at a time...test drive and decide what you want first
oh and Porsche lease Money Factor is high, so leasing a 100k plus car is more expensive than buying. Unless you have no concern about $ and just like something new ever 2-3 years then by all means lease
10-11-2018, 03:08 PM
#35
A Jag and especially a Maserati will never be on my radar. The brits have gotten better but they're still not built as well as German cars. The Italians make some good cars as well, but not with any sort of longevity in mind whatsoever. That's why both depreciate more than German cars. I question the financial sense of my stock broker because he bought a Maserati...
10-11-2018, 05:04 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Ok, thanks again everyone. I test drove the 911 Carrera T today and really liked it. I imagine it's likely I'll like a base 911 too. I asked to drive the Cayman as well but the salesman kind of brushed me off and we were already 2.5 hours in, so I didn't push it. I'll go test drive the Cayman somewhere else this week. Assuming I like it as much as the 911, then I come back here and ask for your guys advice on specific CPO cars and their pricing. Point taken about not going too crazy with trying to pinpoint the exact spot on the depreciation curve to go for. True, I'll lose money no matter what so no point in penny pinching and drawing this process out. It sounds like everyone here basically agrees that I'll get decent value if I buy any CPO Cayman or 911, and to just come here to check that it's priced right before I pull the trigger. I don't care about options, other than that it's an auto transmission and it's black, grey, silver, or navy, so I'm sure I'll be able to find something that strikes my fancy.
10-11-2018, 05:47 PM
#38
A Jag and especially a Maserati will never be on my radar. The brits have gotten better but they're still not built as well as German cars. The Italians make some good cars as well, but not with any sort of longevity in mind whatsoever. That's why both depreciate more than German cars. I question the financial sense of my stock broker because he bought a Maserati...
While it IS better than a Chrysler 300... I call it the overpriced Chrysler 300.
Also cringe @ people who flaunt their "I made it" Ghibli on social media.. I genuinely feel bad. Can't say anything though
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10-11-2018, 05:56 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
I was really glad this video got released. I would try to explain to people how bad Maserati is and they would look at me funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOZnqnB6xDo
While it IS better than a Chrysler 300... I call it the overpriced Chrysler 300.
Also cringe @ people who flaunt their "I made it" Ghibli on social media.. I genuinely feel bad. Can't say anything though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOZnqnB6xDo
While it IS better than a Chrysler 300... I call it the overpriced Chrysler 300.
Also cringe @ people who flaunt their "I made it" Ghibli on social media.. I genuinely feel bad. Can't say anything though
+1
they were giving them away on leases 2 years ago, I looked into it and sat in one......is really a glorified Chrysler......but a certain group of people (from certain parts of the world) LOVE to flaunt their Chrysler (I mean Maserati LOL) and think that its exclusive....But for the people who knows car....we all knew about those $3000 down $600 a mos low miles lease deals in CA.
10-11-2018, 06:24 PM
#40
+1
they were giving them away on leases 2 years ago, I looked into it and sat in one......is really a glorified Chrysler......but a certain group of people (from certain parts of the world) LOVE to flaunt their Chrysler (I mean Maserati LOL) and think that its exclusive....But for the people who knows car....we all knew about those $3000 down $600 a mos low miles lease deals in CA.
they were giving them away on leases 2 years ago, I looked into it and sat in one......is really a glorified Chrysler......but a certain group of people (from certain parts of the world) LOVE to flaunt their Chrysler (I mean Maserati LOL) and think that its exclusive....But for the people who knows car....we all knew about those $3000 down $600 a mos low miles lease deals in CA.
First he is reviewing a 2015 (the review was done in 2017). So many of the features he mention it does not have it now does have.
Second Maserati has more models then just Ghibli.
You don't need to put someone down to feel good.
I'm happy for anyone that acquires a car that they can afford and makes them happy to drive. It does not make my car purchase any better or any worse.
10-11-2018, 07:00 PM
#42
You both just sounds mean.
First he is reviewing a 2015 (the review was done in 2017). So many of the features he mention it does not have it now does have.
Second Maserati has more models then just Ghibli.
You don't need to put someone down to feel good.
I'm happy for anyone that acquires a car that they can afford and makes them happy to drive. It does not make my car purchase any better or any worse.
First he is reviewing a 2015 (the review was done in 2017). So many of the features he mention it does not have it now does have.
Second Maserati has more models then just Ghibli.
You don't need to put someone down to feel good.
I'm happy for anyone that acquires a car that they can afford and makes them happy to drive. It does not make my car purchase any better or any worse.
People who buy a Ghibli are buying a lie. It's absolutely disgusting IMO. This is why I said I feel bad. There are real good people out there who are spending their hard earned money on a fake car. What kind of analogy should I use? I'm not good at them.. Lets say CASIO buys out ROLEX, cheaps out on all the materials and build quality but still charge the premium Rolex price. The unknowing up and coming person with money wants their first nice new Rolex. They pay 20K for a watch made with $50 parts and guts.
Bottom Line: You are being charged a premium price for a brand name that corporate devils bought out and manipulated. The unknowing customers believe they are getting into something premium but they are not.
I could go on and on about several other cars that are lies... Even the VW parts in our 991's make me cringe, I've mentioned it many times on this forum. I'm a car guy and I criticize accordingly.
10-11-2018, 09:27 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
deleted
10-11-2018, 09:29 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
TATA seems to be doing ok with the brand. They've changed to an SUV company like everyone else.
10-11-2018, 10:12 PM
#45
Intermediate
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Hello all, I have some updates. I went to another dealer today and test drove a 2015 911 Carrera, a used 2018 Cayman S, and a new 2018 Cayman. Also recall that I test drove a 2018 Carrera T yesterday. Based on this, I think I've narrowed down what I want. Here are my notes:
-The 2015 911 Carrera felt similar to the 2018 Carrera T that I drove. The salesman said most of the difference I wouldn't notice until I got to a track, and I don't intend to do much if any track driving so I guess the benefits of the Carrera T don't apply to me.
-I went in leaning towards a 911, thinking it's the classic and more expensive car, so I'm sure I'll like it better. To my surprise, while the 911 was an enjoyable car, I liked the Cayman better. The steering felt more responsive. Overall the car felt lighter and the handling tighter. Almost go cart like (but obviously better). Maybe even a bit zippier, which I'm not sure why, as the 911 is a faster car in reality right?
-I also really like the overall look of the 718, especially the rear.
-So I would be interested in people's thoughts on the above, but I think I'm confident that I want to go with the 718 Cayman.
-While the Cayman S was faster and had a nicer, more guttural engine sound than the regular Cayman, I enjoyed both cars about the same, so I'm fine with a Cayman vs a Cayman S. Also I wonder if I want to drive a Cayman S as a daily driver since it drives quite aggressively even in non sport mode.
-I also want value and the used Cayman I drove was in such great shape, that I forgot it was used, so I'm fine with used, so I'll go with a CPO per people's advice.
-So in summary, I've narrowed down my choice to a 718 (2017 or 2018) CPO Cayman in black, silver, or navy.
For next steps, what about the following plan?
1) Collect all the listings for 2017 or 2018 CPO Caymans from nationalpreownedporsche.com, autotrader.com, and autotempest.com (am I missing any other important sources? Are the latter two redundant since I'm only looking at CPO, so will they all be in nationalpreownedporsche.com and no need to look elsewhere?)
2) Choose 4 or 5 of the lowest price ones that have my preferred colors, wheels.
3) Post the links here and ask for people's opinions on what they are worth.
4) Email or call each dealer and make them offers a couple grand less than what they are worth to leave room for negotiation, and then go with whoever says yes or gives the best deal.
-The 2015 911 Carrera felt similar to the 2018 Carrera T that I drove. The salesman said most of the difference I wouldn't notice until I got to a track, and I don't intend to do much if any track driving so I guess the benefits of the Carrera T don't apply to me.
-I went in leaning towards a 911, thinking it's the classic and more expensive car, so I'm sure I'll like it better. To my surprise, while the 911 was an enjoyable car, I liked the Cayman better. The steering felt more responsive. Overall the car felt lighter and the handling tighter. Almost go cart like (but obviously better). Maybe even a bit zippier, which I'm not sure why, as the 911 is a faster car in reality right?
-I also really like the overall look of the 718, especially the rear.
-So I would be interested in people's thoughts on the above, but I think I'm confident that I want to go with the 718 Cayman.
-While the Cayman S was faster and had a nicer, more guttural engine sound than the regular Cayman, I enjoyed both cars about the same, so I'm fine with a Cayman vs a Cayman S. Also I wonder if I want to drive a Cayman S as a daily driver since it drives quite aggressively even in non sport mode.
-I also want value and the used Cayman I drove was in such great shape, that I forgot it was used, so I'm fine with used, so I'll go with a CPO per people's advice.
-So in summary, I've narrowed down my choice to a 718 (2017 or 2018) CPO Cayman in black, silver, or navy.
For next steps, what about the following plan?
1) Collect all the listings for 2017 or 2018 CPO Caymans from nationalpreownedporsche.com, autotrader.com, and autotempest.com (am I missing any other important sources? Are the latter two redundant since I'm only looking at CPO, so will they all be in nationalpreownedporsche.com and no need to look elsewhere?)
2) Choose 4 or 5 of the lowest price ones that have my preferred colors, wheels.
3) Post the links here and ask for people's opinions on what they are worth.
4) Email or call each dealer and make them offers a couple grand less than what they are worth to leave room for negotiation, and then go with whoever says yes or gives the best deal.