Vektor Headers on .2 GTS, install and quick review
10-11-2018, 09:10 AM
#31
Three Wheelin'
You have the car in front of you. Put a ruler on the floor and measure for yourself how far it hangs and then use the same ruler to see where the crossmember hangs.
While I appreciate your now admitting it hangs lower, you should be 100% honest and show it hangs lower by 1/2 inch.
IT IS NOT 1/4 of an inch and I have had 3 different people contact me with the measurements.
With regard to your photos and comments..
When the car is in motion and under load, the rear will sit lower than when it is standing still and parked. The acceleration causes the back to squat as well as the weight from the engine shifting the center of gravity backwards causing the rear shocks to compress more than the front due to the shift in weight.
So while you may see the front appear to be sitting "lower", in real life driving the cars motion will cause the front to lift and rear to squat. That reverses on hard braking where the front dives slightly and the rear lifts slightly.
Thats why anything hanging lower is a concern, because while it may show clearance when motionless it differs under load.
While I appreciate your now admitting it hangs lower, you should be 100% honest and show it hangs lower by 1/2 inch.
IT IS NOT 1/4 of an inch and I have had 3 different people contact me with the measurements.
With regard to your photos and comments..
When the car is in motion and under load, the rear will sit lower than when it is standing still and parked. The acceleration causes the back to squat as well as the weight from the engine shifting the center of gravity backwards causing the rear shocks to compress more than the front due to the shift in weight.
So while you may see the front appear to be sitting "lower", in real life driving the cars motion will cause the front to lift and rear to squat. That reverses on hard braking where the front dives slightly and the rear lifts slightly.
Thats why anything hanging lower is a concern, because while it may show clearance when motionless it differs under load.
10-11-2018, 11:22 AM
#33
Looks like the design needs a revision.
10-11-2018, 12:19 PM
#34
PTS you really need to take a chill pill. I remember you mentioned you were gonna get both fabspeed and kline headers to test them out, and both manufactures promised to return them for you if they did not match claimed gains. Instead of waiting for all of us to do it, would love to know what happened with that plan.
Being a keyboard warrior is a giant waste of everyone's time TBH. It wasn't until i posted the pictures your claims gained some footing. So instead of going back and forth over the internet, why not pick up the kline headers and give the community a bit more information?
10-11-2018, 01:01 PM
#35
10-11-2018, 01:18 PM
#37
Instructor
Are yours stainless or Inconel? Did you go with the Zirconia coating? Am just wondering whether their Inconel headers are worth the upcharge, I suspect the performance difference is primarily sound characteristics and heat retention...
10-11-2018, 01:23 PM
#38
spdracerut: Are we going to go through this again? Are you jumping on the "my eyes can see" bandwagon? If your eyes can see that the Vektors hang 10mm from ANY photo then you need to get a job at the circus.
It is a measurement that can only be made on an actual car with a ruler or tape measure. IMPOSSIBLE to know or see from photos as different angles show the part higher or lower based on how it is photographed.
To suggest that we should have been able to see a 10mm drop from the pictures in the MotoIQ article is just absurd.
"There are always design compromises. Vektor chose to compromise some clearance for better flow performance"
Interesting comment considering Vektor not only EVER made those claims, but they went so far as to state on record that their headers DO NOT sit any lower than factory or compromise on clearance.
If this was a court room and Vektor was a witness, their credibility would now be compromised based on inconsistencies in their testimony. If you catch someone in a lie then it is safe to assume that there are other statements they have made that are also lies.
If Vektors position is that they chose to have the header hang 1/2 inch below the crossmember because it allowed for even pipe lengths, better flow characteristics, better performance, or for any other reason, then they should have come out and said that. To claim they are the best flowing and do not hang any lower than stock is an outright lie and neither claim can be or has been supported.
I will also say that even if the Vektors produce 20hp (something I do not believe) and the Klines produce 15hp (also something I have no proof of), I would personally choose the trade off of losing 5hp and buying the Klines rather than have the car have a 1/2 inch pipe hanging lower than the rest of the car. That's my position. Of course if it was 20hp vs 5hp then my position might change..
It is a measurement that can only be made on an actual car with a ruler or tape measure. IMPOSSIBLE to know or see from photos as different angles show the part higher or lower based on how it is photographed.
To suggest that we should have been able to see a 10mm drop from the pictures in the MotoIQ article is just absurd.
"There are always design compromises. Vektor chose to compromise some clearance for better flow performance"
Interesting comment considering Vektor not only EVER made those claims, but they went so far as to state on record that their headers DO NOT sit any lower than factory or compromise on clearance.
If this was a court room and Vektor was a witness, their credibility would now be compromised based on inconsistencies in their testimony. If you catch someone in a lie then it is safe to assume that there are other statements they have made that are also lies.
If Vektors position is that they chose to have the header hang 1/2 inch below the crossmember because it allowed for even pipe lengths, better flow characteristics, better performance, or for any other reason, then they should have come out and said that. To claim they are the best flowing and do not hang any lower than stock is an outright lie and neither claim can be or has been supported.
I will also say that even if the Vektors produce 20hp (something I do not believe) and the Klines produce 15hp (also something I have no proof of), I would personally choose the trade off of losing 5hp and buying the Klines rather than have the car have a 1/2 inch pipe hanging lower than the rest of the car. That's my position. Of course if it was 20hp vs 5hp then my position might change..
Here, I drew a nice little line for you using easy to see marking on the rear cross member as reference points. While eyeballing "10mm" is not something you can do, you can certainly see it hangs lower than the stock headers and the oil pan. Of note, I'd rather having something hit the headers first than crack the plastic oil pan.
If you want to go into the court of law mode, I have never seen Vektor state as you say that the headers don't sit lower than stock. What you DID state is they hang 'SEVERAL' inches below stock. Let's define 'several' inches. A 'fraction' of an inch would be accepted as anything less than an inch. A 'couple' inches would be 2 inches. A 'few' inches would in common usage, people would consider between 2"-5" or so. 'Several' in common usage could be considered 5"+. I would say that since Vektor asked MotoIQ to do the independent review and put all pictures up in public domain, and this picture clearly shows the headers hang lower than the stock headers, Vektor is not hiding anything. Another point of reference, is the header height vs. the oil pan, and you can clearly see it sits lower than the oil pan.
Got this picture from BBI and you can search many others or just go look at your car. You can see the stock headers sits about even with the pan.
Oh, and by the way, Porsche designed new headers for the 992 to make more power. They ditched the 991.2 stamped steel headers and are going to a cast header.
Lastly, what scenario do you envision the header hitting something and what do you think is the percentage likely-hood it will occur and the amount of damage it will incur? I tell you what, to find an object in the middle of the road that is low enough to get under the front bumper, but still tall enough to hit the header, be hard enough to damage the header, and you'd have to be pretty good at your targeting to hit the header which is maybe 5% of the width? And note if you drive over something wide enough that the left rear wheel will go over it, then that will lift the whole rear and header over whatever it is. In over 2 decades of driving, I've only ever hit something once and that was at night and a plastic bucket was sitting in the middle of the highway. Got lodged under my front bumper. Even with dozens of auto-xs, I've never had a cone get stuck past the front wheels. Dozens of track days, never scrapped the bottom of my car on anything including my control arm mounted brake ducts which sit below the underbody of the car by 2".
10-11-2018, 01:48 PM
#39
10-11-2018, 02:15 PM
#40
Track Day
About your Kline headers. Did you also have to run their cats? I cant tell if Kline requires you to run their full set up if its modular. I would like to change out the stock headers and cats but run the stock PSE muffler. Is that possible?
10-11-2018, 02:19 PM
#41
So did you experience any increase in sound / performance since the install? Where have you been this whole time lol
10-11-2018, 02:27 PM
#42
flsupraguy, are you in Florida? If so Id love to buy you lunch if we can meet up and I can check out your setup.
About your Kline headers. Did you also have to run their cats? I cant tell if Kline requires you to run their full set up if its modular. I would like to change out the stock headers and cats but run the stock PSE muffler. Is that possible?
10-11-2018, 02:29 PM
#43
flsupraguy, are you in Florida? If so I’d love to buy you lunch if we can meet up and I can check out your setup.
About your Kline headers. Did you also have to run their cats? I can’t tell if Kline requires you to run their full set up if it’s modular. I would like to change out the stock headers and cats but run the stock PSE muffler. Is that possible?
Unless someone starts sharing more experiences, so far we only know fabspeed headers alone had no increase in performance / sound, which is one of the key reasons i ended going with vektor headers. Because the assumption based on design and early reviews, it was the only header that would make a difference in sound and performance (alone, when not paired with cats). So far that parts been proven with my experience, but we have to see about the "only" part.
Last edited by basic666; 10-11-2018 at 03:15 PM.
10-11-2018, 03:47 PM
#44
Three Wheelin'
SPDRACERUT:
"I'd rather having something hit the headers first than crack the plastic oil pan."
Me too, but the crossmember sits lower than the oilpan. So with the Vektors you will crack the header first, then the crossmember and then the oilpan.
Or perhaps you catch the lip of the header and rip the turbo and whole damn engine out of the car.
I can't argue with Webster's Dictionary on what the definition of several is. Doesnt support your "5" theory, but take a read and see if it applies to a 3 inch drop.
More than 2 but not many seems to fit PERFECTLY with 3.
sevˇerˇal
ˈsev(ə)rəl/
determiner & pronoun
Looking at the photo you posted with the "nice little line" I will again say I cannot tell that the header sits lower or higher and certainly cannot measure 10mm with my eyes.
1. The picture is crooked and not level
2. The line is from the center of a bolt and not the bottom of the crossmember, which is lower than the bolt.
My question is, since your eyes are so good and the picture you provided is something you are familiar with... How can you not see the oil pan sits higher than the crossmember?
Your eyes are selective and see what they want or you need to deal with a serious astigmatism.
"I'd rather having something hit the headers first than crack the plastic oil pan."
Me too, but the crossmember sits lower than the oilpan. So with the Vektors you will crack the header first, then the crossmember and then the oilpan.
Or perhaps you catch the lip of the header and rip the turbo and whole damn engine out of the car.
I can't argue with Webster's Dictionary on what the definition of several is. Doesnt support your "5" theory, but take a read and see if it applies to a 3 inch drop.
More than 2 but not many seems to fit PERFECTLY with 3.
sevˇerˇal
ˈsev(ə)rəl/
determiner & pronoun
- 1.
more than two but not many.
"the author of several books"synonyms:some, a number of, a few; More
Looking at the photo you posted with the "nice little line" I will again say I cannot tell that the header sits lower or higher and certainly cannot measure 10mm with my eyes.
1. The picture is crooked and not level
2. The line is from the center of a bolt and not the bottom of the crossmember, which is lower than the bolt.
My question is, since your eyes are so good and the picture you provided is something you are familiar with... How can you not see the oil pan sits higher than the crossmember?
Your eyes are selective and see what they want or you need to deal with a serious astigmatism.
10-11-2018, 03:52 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
"this picture clearly shows the headers hang lower than the stock headers, Vektor is not hiding anything"
Then why the hell did they say they didnt hang any lower than stock on this very forum?
Why the hell did they say it didnt hang below the crossmember?
Why they hell did they say it didnt reduce ground clearance?
If its so easy to see then why didnt they see it and admit it?
Hiding? Mistaken? Lying? Stupidity? What is the reason?
Then why the hell did they say they didnt hang any lower than stock on this very forum?
Why the hell did they say it didnt hang below the crossmember?
Why they hell did they say it didnt reduce ground clearance?
If its so easy to see then why didnt they see it and admit it?
Hiding? Mistaken? Lying? Stupidity? What is the reason?