991.2 *base model* suspension discussion...
10-05-2018, 08:19 AM
#31
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OT: very interested in your impressions of how a base 718 compares to a 981[BC]S. I drove a 718CS a while back and liked it. Better “drivability” as compared to our 981CS.
10-05-2018, 07:00 PM
#32
Porsche actually doesn't break models within the 911 range down by sales, and a lot of newer 911 sales are GT3's (and GT2's trickling in there now). In U.S market, it's selling better than last year, but still not better than the .1. If you're talking about the 997 gen, then yeah the 991 as a whole is selling better (but the 997 was hampered by the recession, so not really a fair comparison).
10-05-2018, 07:55 PM
#33
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My experience in the .2 base was similar. I felt it was too soft, actually way too soft. However, very compliant and balanced. It felt confident and like it can handle corners very well, but the sensation and feeling it gave was a bit too disconnected and smooth/soft compared to my .1 with PASM, H&R's and PTV+, which just feels stiffer (though still plenty soft during normal driving as 991's in general are) and more "direct" to the road. It makes me wonder which will actually technically handle better on backroads, as .2's obviously have chassis tweaks to refine it overall, be it handling and comfort, but lacks the PTV+ and lower center of gravity/what I assume is stiffer spring rate. The .2 definitely felt more compliant, but not as sporty.
I logged about 12,000-14,000 miles with stock 991.2 Carrera suspension—and probably 1,500-3,000 miles with stock 991.1 Carrera suspension—and really don't get the "it's too soft" comments unless someone is looking for a Carrera to feel like a GT4 or a GT3. Nothing wrong with that, as those cars are brilliant, but the Carrera's more compliant suspension may make it quicker over the road in some situations. YMMV, but the only thing that bugs me about the 991.2 Carrera's suspension is the ride height. It's near perfect (if not perfect) for road work, and stiff enough for occasional track days...at least for me, anyway.
10-05-2018, 08:49 PM
#34
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No doubt a stiffer/lower can help on the track, but for mountain twisties on imperfect roads, a bit more compliance can be a good thing.
10-05-2018, 10:43 PM
#35
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Trouble is, you're off the reservation with H&R springs...comparisons to stock 991.1 and stock 991.2 suspension just aren't useful to others unless they're seen as a data point. (Don't worry, I just joined you off the reservation with TechArt springs.)
I logged about 12,000-14,000 miles with stock 991.2 Carrera suspension—and probably 1,500-3,000 miles with stock 991.1 Carrera suspension—and really don't get the "it's too soft" comments unless someone is looking for a Carrera to feel like a GT4 or a GT3. Nothing wrong with that, as those cars are brilliant, but the Carrera's more compliant suspension may make it quicker over the road in some situations. YMMV, but the only thing that bugs me about the 991.2 Carrera's suspension is the ride height. It's near perfect (if not perfect) for road work, and stiff enough for occasional track days...at least for me, anyway.
I logged about 12,000-14,000 miles with stock 991.2 Carrera suspension—and probably 1,500-3,000 miles with stock 991.1 Carrera suspension—and really don't get the "it's too soft" comments unless someone is looking for a Carrera to feel like a GT4 or a GT3. Nothing wrong with that, as those cars are brilliant, but the Carrera's more compliant suspension may make it quicker over the road in some situations. YMMV, but the only thing that bugs me about the 991.2 Carrera's suspension is the ride height. It's near perfect (if not perfect) for road work, and stiff enough for occasional track days...at least for me, anyway.
Comparing it to my stock 997.2 C4S (apart from the DSC module) the 991.2 is 'softer' in that it absorbs the bumps better, but has less body roll, dive and pitch. So overall, the body control and handling are much better, despite the shocks being 'softer' to take road impacts like railroad tracks and manhole covers. If you come to an abrupt stop in the base 991.2 car, there is virtually no dive, and no reverse rebound when you come to a halt. The 997.2 C4S had a little bit of that.
I think the best way to describe the 991.2 is that it is very compliant over pretty much all road surfaces.
10-06-2018, 08:36 AM
#36
Trouble is, you're off the reservation with H&R springs...comparisons to stock 991.1 and stock 991.2 suspension just aren't useful to others unless they're seen as a data point. (Don't worry, I just joined you off the reservation with TechArt springs.)
I logged about 12,000-14,000 miles with stock 991.2 Carrera suspension—and probably 1,500-3,000 miles with stock 991.1 Carrera suspension—and really don't get the "it's too soft" comments unless someone is looking for a Carrera to feel like a GT4 or a GT3. Nothing wrong with that, as those cars are brilliant, but the Carrera's more compliant suspension may make it quicker over the road in some situations. YMMV, but the only thing that bugs me about the 991.2 Carrera's suspension is the ride height. It's near perfect (if not perfect) for road work, and stiff enough for occasional track days...at least for me, anyway.
I logged about 12,000-14,000 miles with stock 991.2 Carrera suspension—and probably 1,500-3,000 miles with stock 991.1 Carrera suspension—and really don't get the "it's too soft" comments unless someone is looking for a Carrera to feel like a GT4 or a GT3. Nothing wrong with that, as those cars are brilliant, but the Carrera's more compliant suspension may make it quicker over the road in some situations. YMMV, but the only thing that bugs me about the 991.2 Carrera's suspension is the ride height. It's near perfect (if not perfect) for road work, and stiff enough for occasional track days...at least for me, anyway.
Just to clarify, I find even my car “too soft,” but that definitely becomes apppreciated when just putting around these city roads. Porsche really perfect the art of “track engineered sports car for traffic conditions.” No extremes, just a lot of careful walking lines to accomplish a lot at once.
Still trying to figure out of my H&R Sport springs (which I’m pretty sure are the same ones as linked) are stiffer than base .1 spring rate? You by chance have an idea?
https://express.google.com/u/0/produ...SABEgJczfD_BwE
10-06-2018, 09:08 AM
#37
Its got me beat why people believe/perceive higher spring rates are better - its a myth, particularly in relation to a road car.
Suspension in the whole is an integrated function to deliver an optimal contact patch under a range of conditions from braking through all facets of cornering to acceleration. A reasonably compliant suspension c.f. GTB or any Mclaren ensures the tires are in maximum contact with the road surface = more traction and grip at all times.
If you want to deal with roll, you deal with sway bars - and roll is fine, it keeps the cars contact patch adhered to the ground - if bars are to thick the result is snap oversteer
If you want to deal with pitch, you deal with springs - and pitch is fine, it allows optimal braking and weight transfer for optimal corner entry - by weight transfer to the front and hence the contact patches.
Yaw is a trade off.
The lowering spring kits do not produce much of a benefit - largely, they are cosmetic
. Nothing right or wrong about this - they deliver very little.
Suspension in the whole is an integrated function to deliver an optimal contact patch under a range of conditions from braking through all facets of cornering to acceleration. A reasonably compliant suspension c.f. GTB or any Mclaren ensures the tires are in maximum contact with the road surface = more traction and grip at all times.
If you want to deal with roll, you deal with sway bars - and roll is fine, it keeps the cars contact patch adhered to the ground - if bars are to thick the result is snap oversteer
If you want to deal with pitch, you deal with springs - and pitch is fine, it allows optimal braking and weight transfer for optimal corner entry - by weight transfer to the front and hence the contact patches.
Yaw is a trade off.
The lowering spring kits do not produce much of a benefit - largely, they are cosmetic
. Nothing right or wrong about this - they deliver very little.
Last edited by groundhog; 10-06-2018 at 09:40 AM.