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PDK Failure & Outcome Story

 
Old 09-28-2018, 10:22 AM
  #46  
limegreen
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Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
This is sickening. I would argue that it's an illegal transfer of wealth, frankly a robbery. Thinly disguised as monopolising repairs through proprietary technology and replacing entire components rather than individual parts.

I 100% agree with you.

This story is exactly why I am against PDK's, DI turbo engines , PASM, Rear steering etc etc. because as fascinating as the technology is, it becomes extremely difficult to justify the benefits when your stuck holding the bill.

Keeping the car under warranty is a great idea but it also brings with it another problem which is that you can't hang onto your car after a certain point. In my case that's a terrible feeling because frankly I'm not interested in anything past my already over complicated and questionably built 991.1. In my opinion the industry is in a free fall where each model is both becoming better and worse simultaneously and the " throw away and buy new " mentality is nearing that of the consumer electronics industry which is arguably one of the worst things to invest money into. Not that most cars are much better of an investment but at least your not losing near 100% of the initial purchase price in a matter of a year or two like you would a 65" tv for instance...

The counter argument always veers towards " well it's a Porsche so if you can't afford the repairs you can't afford the car" but this is something entirely different and being forced to pay for massive component replacements like this should make even the most financially successful question the decision, providing they actually worked to earn it.

How do we stop this? Simple, by demanding as a consumer that vehicles be produced with long term longevity and ownership cost in mind rather than allow them to continue to assume that we will just remain in a perpetual state of loss in order to drive the latest and greatest....
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:35 AM
  #47  
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Sh*t happens, but statistically the PDk is very robust. Rennlist is a microcosm which can easily make things appear as "the sky is falling". PDK's are very reliable, as are Porsches in general (Tied with Lexus for reliability). Also, it appears the majority of PDK's that have required replacement were either fully or majority (60%) covered by PCNA even out of warranty.

There is also a TSB from December 2013 about the ventilation house on the PDK that was prone to developing moisture and "shunting/shorting" some electronics in the PDK. From my understanding this was causing the majority of premature PDK failures. They have remedied this with a new ventilation configuration.
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Old 09-28-2018, 12:17 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Airbag997 View Post
Sh*t happens, but statistically the PDk is very robust. Rennlist is a microcosm which can easily make things appear as "the sky is falling". PDK's are very reliable, as are Porsches in general (Tied with Lexus for reliability). Also, it appears the majority of PDK's that have required replacement were either fully or majority (60%) covered by PCNA even out of warranty.

There is also a TSB from December 2013 about the ventilation house on the PDK that was prone to developing moisture and "shunting/shorting" some electronics in the PDK. From my understanding this was causing the majority of premature PDK failures. They have remedied this with a new ventilation configuration.
Thanks for the information. I found the TSB. Maybe I'll mention this to my SA next time and see if I can proactively retrofit:

NHTSA ID: 10055043
TSB ID: TI-85-13

Porsche: a new type of vent line must be used, if pdk transmission needs replacing, and installed prior to new pdk transmission. model 2013-2014 911 carrera, 911 carrera s, 911 carrera 4, 911 carrera 4s.
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Old 09-28-2018, 12:48 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by visitador View Post
Thanks for the information. I found the TSB. Maybe I'll mention this to my SA next time and see if I can proactively retrofit:

NHTSA ID: 10055043
TSB ID: TI-85-13

Porsche: a new type of vent line must be used, if pdk transmission needs replacing, and installed prior to new pdk transmission. model 2013-2014 911 carrera, 911 carrera s, 911 carrera 4, 911 carrera 4s.
Good find! Can you post the .pdf?
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Old 09-28-2018, 12:51 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Airbag997 View Post
Sh*t happens, but statistically the PDk is very robust. Rennlist is a microcosm which can easily make things appear as "the sky is falling". PDK's are very reliable, as are Porsches in general (Tied with Lexus for reliability).
What are these statistics you speak of?

There is also a TSB from December 2013 about the ventilation house on the PDK that was prone to developing moisture and "shunting/shorting" some electronics in the PDK. From my understanding this was causing the majority of premature PDK failures. They have remedied this with a new ventilation configuration.
What year did these remedies take place, was it after 2014?
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Old 09-28-2018, 01:05 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by .2PDK View Post
What are these statistics you speak of?



What year did these remedies take place, was it after 2014?
Empirical statistics. Over 800k PDK cars been sold since 2009, maybe 2-300 failures worldwide, let's say 1,000 failures just for laughs, or 100 per year roughly. That's a 0.125% failure rate. Could even bump that up an order of magnitude to 1,000 failures per year, still only 1.25% failure rate overall.

"Lexus and Porsche are the auto brands that showed the fewest problems after three years of ownership, though technology troubles continue to drag down dependability ratings overall, a new survey from research firm J.D. Power finds." 2017 Article

Dec 2012 - Jan 2013
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Old 09-28-2018, 01:42 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by limegreen View Post
I 100% agree with you.

This story is exactly why I am against PDK's, DI turbo engines , PASM, Rear steering etc etc. because as fascinating as the technology is, it becomes extremely difficult to justify the benefits when your stuck holding the bill.

Keeping the car under warranty is a great idea but it also brings with it another problem which is that you can't hang onto your car after a certain point. In my case that's a terrible feeling because frankly I'm not interested in anything past my already over complicated and questionably built 991.1. In my opinion the industry is in a free fall where each model is both becoming better and worse simultaneously and the " throw away and buy new " mentality is nearing that of the consumer electronics industry which is arguably one of the worst things to invest money into. Not that most cars are much better of an investment but at least your not losing near 100% of the initial purchase price in a matter of a year or two like you would a 65" tv for instance...

The counter argument always veers towards " well it's a Porsche so if you can't afford the repairs you can't afford the car" but this is something entirely different and being forced to pay for massive component replacements like this should make even the most financially successful question the decision, providing they actually worked to earn it.

How do we stop this? Simple, by demanding as a consumer that vehicles be produced with long term longevity and ownership cost in mind rather than allow them to continue to assume that we will just remain in a perpetual state of loss in order to drive the latest and greatest....
Limegreen,

I agree with your post. I feel modern 911's are becoming so over designed - the idea of keeping them for 10 years plus seems impossible.

One of the reasons why I love the older generation 911's, is that I know I can repair them on my own. And enjoy them for decades.

I love driving 911's. I don't store them in a garage to look at, so it would be nice if I knew I could repair a modern 911 – 15 years from now on my own.

But, I don't think that will be possible...
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:16 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by .2PDK View Post
Of course, I would love to get a full breakdown of those figures...
Of what figures? Amount of the credit? OP might be able to provide that item if it is a line item on the repair invoice.
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:17 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by 2000se View Post
Better not cost $20K and still require a core...That would be robbery. Although I wouldn't be surprised.
Prepare to not be surprised.
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:21 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by PsychicDreamer View Post
Limegreen,

I agree with your post. I feel modern 911's are becoming so over designed - the idea of keeping them for 10 years plus seems impossible.

One of the reasons why I love the older generation 911's, is that I know I can repair them on my own. And enjoy them for decades.

I love driving 911's. I don't store them in a garage to look at, so it would be nice if I knew I could repair a modern 911 – 15 years from now on my own.

But, I don't think that will be possible...
The manufacturers would love to keep you coming back to them for a new car every 3 to 4 years. That was the original concept behind leasing. Obscenely high cost to repair is another way of pushing the consumer to replace their car every 3, 4, 5 or 6 years. Welcome to the car ownership casino.
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:25 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Airbag997 View Post
Empirical statistics. Over 800k PDK cars been sold since 2009, maybe 2-300 failures worldwide, let's say 1,000 failures just for laughs, or 100 per year roughly. That's a 0.125% failure rate. Could even bump that up an order of magnitude to 1,000 failures per year, still only 1.25% failure rate overall.

"Lexus and Porsche are the auto brands that showed the fewest problems after three years of ownership, though technology troubles continue to drag down dependability ratings overall, a new survey from research firm J.D. Power finds." 2017 Article

Dec 2012 - Jan 2013
Technology troubles is a catch-phrase for things like PDKs, engine-grenading failures, etc.
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:28 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by aCayenneFan View Post
Technology troubles is a catch-phrase for things like PDKs, engine-grenading failures, etc.
It's code for grandma and grandpa's inability to understand and use modern infotainment interfaces.
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:28 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by aCayenneFan View Post
Technology troubles is a catch-phrase for things like PDKs, engine-grenading failures, etc.
Ok. Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 09-28-2018, 03:52 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by CaymanSinAR View Post
It's code for grandma and grandpa's inability to understand and use modern infotainment interfaces.
If memory serves, there is a separate category for infotainment.
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Old 09-28-2018, 04:06 PM
  #60  
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Porsche pretty much decides the operational lifetime of your vehicle through the cost to repair. Unless your car is relatively new or is special, older vehicles will be scrapped due to economics. I recalled them claiming 70% of vehicles they made are still operational. Not sure how much longer that will hold. Looking on the bright side, used parts should be plentiful.
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