How do you see the 992 affecting the Carrera T resale value?
10-12-2018, 09:43 PM
#61
Advanced
Thread Starter
LOL.... I'm the person that started this topic. I forgot to tell all you guys that somehow someway a mishap occurred in Stuttgart and they installed the 911R engine in my Carrera T. That's why I was wondering how the resale would hold up
10-12-2018, 09:51 PM
#63
A little history on the relationship and racing history between the T and the R.
In 1968, Porsche built only 35 911T/R coupes for its race and rally customers. Based on the 911T, rather than the heavier S model, the 911T/R was homologated with parts from the 911R of 1967. The cars were stripped of sound deadening, and a limited slip differential was fitted, along with an oil cooler, oversize fuel tank, roll bar, ventilated disc brakes and Koni shock absorbers. Some were built with the 230-horsepower twin-plug 906 engine. Three of the cars — powered by modified two-liter engines of about 180 horsepower — were equipped to compete in SCCA C Production and Trans-Am B Sedan.
In 1968, Porsche built only 35 911T/R coupes for its race and rally customers. Based on the 911T, rather than the heavier S model, the 911T/R was homologated with parts from the 911R of 1967. The cars were stripped of sound deadening, and a limited slip differential was fitted, along with an oil cooler, oversize fuel tank, roll bar, ventilated disc brakes and Koni shock absorbers. Some were built with the 230-horsepower twin-plug 906 engine. Three of the cars — powered by modified two-liter engines of about 180 horsepower — were equipped to compete in SCCA C Production and Trans-Am B Sedan.
10-12-2018, 10:20 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Copperhead37
Ok I am done you just can’t fix stupid.
Honestly i don’t want to. The people with groundhogs misguided misinformed beliefs the better for the rest of us T owners.
Honestly i don’t want to. The people with groundhogs misguided misinformed beliefs the better for the rest of us T owners.
I'm on Porsche #13. Loved them all and thought they were all special. I don't understand the manic fervor to prove one bought the most collectible just because it's badged differently. 959, 993 TT, RS, etc. now we're talking.
10-12-2018, 10:38 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
I suspect my 2019 T with sport buckets with rear seat delete , rear wheel steer, 7 speed manual with lsd, alcantara wheel and shifter, sports chrono, pccbs and Lava paint may be more desirable in future. To me it depends on how T is optioned.
10-12-2018, 10:49 PM
#66
Penn4s
I guess his and your definition of facts is different than the dictionary’s definition. Because his information on this car was most definitely not factual. I am still trying to figure out what motivates a GTS owner to get on a thread started by someone who ordered/owns a T and start bad mouthing it. Seems pretty immature and emotionally motivated to me.
I guess his and your definition of facts is different than the dictionary’s definition. Because his information on this car was most definitely not factual. I am still trying to figure out what motivates a GTS owner to get on a thread started by someone who ordered/owns a T and start bad mouthing it. Seems pretty immature and emotionally motivated to me.
10-13-2018, 12:39 AM
#67
Rennlist Member
Again I'll say I have loved all of mine but I didn't get he was bad mouthing the car just disagreeing with you on its ultimate collectibility and specialness. He wasn't wrong on several points. It does not have the same gear box as the 911R or GT3T, slightly shorter gearing and overall the same power plant as the base at 44 pounds lighter if speced properly. Does have some options you cannot get on a base.
Just seems this forum and 6speed , which is a ghost town, get so personal and combative all the time.
Just seems this forum and 6speed , which is a ghost town, get so personal and combative all the time.
10-13-2018, 07:21 AM
#68
Penn4s
I guess his and your definition of facts is different than the dictionary’s definition. Because his information on this car was most definitely not factual. I am still trying to figure out what motivates a GTS owner to get on a thread started by someone who ordered/owns a T and start bad mouthing it. Seems pretty immature and emotionally motivated to me.
I guess his and your definition of facts is different than the dictionary’s definition. Because his information on this car was most definitely not factual. I am still trying to figure out what motivates a GTS owner to get on a thread started by someone who ordered/owns a T and start bad mouthing it. Seems pretty immature and emotionally motivated to me.
You will find cars such as the S and GTS also have shorter gearing than the base, and have PTV and lockable diffs as standard (either electronically controlled or mechanically controlled - depending on the transmission).
Unfortunately you seem to have swallowed the marketing, yes the T has shorter gearing than the Base but so does every other car in the line up
The improved acceleration of the T relative to the base is due to the shorter gearing, as I tried to explain to you.Enjoy your T, its a fine car but that does not make it collectable
Here is a simple graph that explains the line up (in Australian dollars (thousands) relative to performance 0 to 160km (seconds) - all data from Porsche, all cars PDK)
Also, as I tried to explain to you - Porsche are the master of milking dollars and providing a line up based on dollars and performance - thats how they work. The aim being to drag you up the price profile. Its good business, they extract what the market will bear. That is why its important to understand the options and the spread. Not all options are open or available on/for all vehicles and as a consequence this limits the depth and range of performance.
You can see this in every facet of a build for example (NA = not available on selected model)
Brakes
Base 330mm front + 4 pots, T 330mm front + 4 pots, S 350mm front + 6 pots, GTS 350mm front + 6 pots, GT3 380mm front + 6 pots
Chassis
Base RAS NA, PDCC NA, SPASM NA, T RAS available, SPASM, PDCC NA, S RAS available, SPASM available, PDCC available, GTS RAS available, PDCC available, SPASM available, GT3 RAS standard, etc, etc
Engine
Base 370HP/450NM, T 370HP/450NM, S 420HP/500NM, GTS 450HP/550NM, GT3 500HP/460NM
Transmission
Base PDK - PTV/Lockable diff NA, T PDK - PTV/lockable diff NA (only on manual), S and GTS PDK and PTV with electronically controlled lockable diff, GT3 PDK-S etc etc
See the pattern, its about optionality - this is how Porsche operate and this has consequences for MSRP and resale etc.
No one was ragging on the T, go out and enjoy it
Last edited by groundhog; 10-13-2018 at 09:40 AM.
10-13-2018, 01:46 PM
#69
It would appear you swallowed harder. Since you bought the GTS. A car that is nothing more than a glorified trim package. Your home made chart that supposedly validated your point of view is well - home made. There was a whole bunch of people that screamed the same nonsense in 1968 about the T. Try and buy one of those cars today. You will need 6 figures. That is verifiable by anyone with a computer. Not a home made chart. So your statement about the T never being collectible is wrong.
Point #2
the T comes standard with LSD, PTV, SPASM, final drive ratio: 3.59:1 (base is 3.44:1) short throw shifter out of 911R, light weight glass from the Gt2rs,
The Base, S, GTS do not come standard with this equipment. You have to option (pay extra) to get some of it. You can not get light weight glass or the short throw shifter from the 911R. Period!!!!!
the T comes with optional LWBS, REAR SEAT DELETE, another options the Base,S, and GTS CAN NOT HAVE.
The S and GTS do not have a limited slip diff. Period. You would have to buy one aftermarket and swap yours to get it. That’s what makes the T have one so special.
It’s clear you have little to no real knowledge of mechanics.
QUE, not going to respond to why your on a T thread bashing the T when you clearly don’t own one and have no intention of buying one. Why are you so intimidated by this car.
Is it because it’s lighter better equipped and when flashed with a Cobb tuner has a higher HP/TQ rating.
Is it because the T has an actual racing heritage maybe.
Point #2
the T comes standard with LSD, PTV, SPASM, final drive ratio: 3.59:1 (base is 3.44:1) short throw shifter out of 911R, light weight glass from the Gt2rs,
The Base, S, GTS do not come standard with this equipment. You have to option (pay extra) to get some of it. You can not get light weight glass or the short throw shifter from the 911R. Period!!!!!
the T comes with optional LWBS, REAR SEAT DELETE, another options the Base,S, and GTS CAN NOT HAVE.
The S and GTS do not have a limited slip diff. Period. You would have to buy one aftermarket and swap yours to get it. That’s what makes the T have one so special.
It’s clear you have little to no real knowledge of mechanics.
QUE, not going to respond to why your on a T thread bashing the T when you clearly don’t own one and have no intention of buying one. Why are you so intimidated by this car.
Is it because it’s lighter better equipped and when flashed with a Cobb tuner has a higher HP/TQ rating.
Is it because the T has an actual racing heritage maybe.
10-13-2018, 01:56 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Marineland FL
Posts: 12,408
Likes: 0
Received 3,364 Likes
on
2,307 Posts
To each their own but I do not want light weight glass nor a coupe. The T is a great car for those that like what it offers but I have to chime in and say that the GTS is NOT a glorified trim package car.
10-13-2018, 02:23 PM
#71
My thing with the GTS is other than a couple additional HP’s the only difference between the S and the GTS is trim options like leather, paint, wheels, ect. You can get both the S and the GTS in all wheel drive earning the wide body. It just seems a little pointless. Before the addition of the Turbo’s it made sense because to bump HP on a S to GTS numbers was cost prohibitive. These turbo cars that is not the case you can get an S and throw a flash or power kit on it and have everything a GTS has for thousands less. I understand though that in this regard literal each and every individual will have a different perspective and by no means intend to debate the matter just expressing my personal view on that particular model.
10-13-2018, 03:07 PM
#72
Rennlist Member
What started out as discussion about value when the 992 launches and the "next T" arrives turned into a justification by you that you purchased a 370hp collectible. This further enhanced by your calling the GTS a trim package car.
The 67-73 T models were air cooled carburetor cars of a very particular vintage. Can't be had anymore that's where the value comes from. If Porsche wanted the new T to be collectible they should have launched it with an NA power plant, an 8500 redline, & stripped out interior. That's what will make the GT4 a sought after car.
Either way no one is slamming the new T. It's a nice model within the line up that many seem to really like. Enjoy the car.
The 67-73 T models were air cooled carburetor cars of a very particular vintage. Can't be had anymore that's where the value comes from. If Porsche wanted the new T to be collectible they should have launched it with an NA power plant, an 8500 redline, & stripped out interior. That's what will make the GT4 a sought after car.
Either way no one is slamming the new T. It's a nice model within the line up that many seem to really like. Enjoy the car.
10-13-2018, 03:13 PM
#73
I love a thread where a bunch of people with way too much disposable income gets together and argue about depreciation and value.
Let's get one thing VERY clear, there are probably a hundred different other ways to spend that 100k of yours if you wanted to MAKE MONEY.
Cars in general are by far one of the biggest depreciating assets. Yes some of the classics from 60s or 70s have appreciated. And some now commands double the original MSRP. But what people here seem fail to grasp is any sort of investment you did back then would give you WAY more than just double. Heck even lego sets from 80s have tripled in price (and no im not making this sh*t up). And if you bought apple stocks with that 100k of yours from the 80s, you would be 20x now.
So I guess what im trying to say is, this is quite a pointless debate. If you bought a 100k car you should really not care how much it depreciates. It's a giant f' adult toy. If you're worried about that 50k of yours, maybe you should have prioritized things in life a little better. Ya some people say just because you're rich you doesn't mean you should be stupid with your money. Well spoilers alert, buying an expensive luxury sports car is in fact being VERY STUPID with your money.
But then again this is rennlist so im not surprised.
Let's get one thing VERY clear, there are probably a hundred different other ways to spend that 100k of yours if you wanted to MAKE MONEY.
Cars in general are by far one of the biggest depreciating assets. Yes some of the classics from 60s or 70s have appreciated. And some now commands double the original MSRP. But what people here seem fail to grasp is any sort of investment you did back then would give you WAY more than just double. Heck even lego sets from 80s have tripled in price (and no im not making this sh*t up). And if you bought apple stocks with that 100k of yours from the 80s, you would be 20x now.
So I guess what im trying to say is, this is quite a pointless debate. If you bought a 100k car you should really not care how much it depreciates. It's a giant f' adult toy. If you're worried about that 50k of yours, maybe you should have prioritized things in life a little better. Ya some people say just because you're rich you doesn't mean you should be stupid with your money. Well spoilers alert, buying an expensive luxury sports car is in fact being VERY STUPID with your money.
But then again this is rennlist so im not surprised.
10-13-2018, 03:31 PM
#74
I really enjoy the affect the T is having on the Porsche community as a whole. I personally enjoyed and preferred my 981 Cayman over all modern 911’s except the GT cars, until I drove a T. The reason I looked at, researched and ultimately drove and ordered a T was because in my opinion it is a very special 911 That handles and drives just as good as my mid engine cayman but with more power and torque as well as better options.(some of which can not be had on say a GTS) That said opinions are just that each person forms there own. I have noticed that there is a very large segment of Porsche enthusiasts that don’t understand the car, don’t like the car, and/or run the car down in various ways. I have seen it on multiple boards and forums. Frankly I don’t mind because that means there will be less of them sold.
I really don't get your logic here. Is the T somehow more special because (are you ready for this) you decided to buy one? Incase you are gonna call me out for being biased - yes I do have a GTS. And yes i'm very clear on the fact that its a bunch of extra options on a S car. I did the math when ordering, the S with the exact same options would've costed more. So that's why i opt'd for the GTS.
But, please enlighten all of us (since we clearly don't understand the car, as you pointed out) on how the T is somehow a more special car compared to the whole line up, when its just another trim level, where a bunch of options were thrown on the base car???
10-13-2018, 03:42 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
holy cow....
we are all adults here, correct?
debates for the sake of what?
Buy what you like to drive...they are all great cars and have value to the person who purchased the car to enjoy....
Of course the T is the best one.......if you bought a T...
The GTS is the best for the ones who bought one, the S....etc.
Thats what making a personal choice is...
I like my T and my 987 Spyder....that s why I bought them..
But I had a hard time deciding if the T was best or the S, or the GTS was best for me...ultimately it was the bucket seats and the standard features of the T that made me decide.... for ME
It would be nice if everyone didn't think they are smarter than everyone else and somehow their opinion is more important to everyone else who wants to buy an S, GTS, T, base, etc...
Just wow....
Its crap like this that keeps me off rennlist....
But that is just my opinion...carry on...
we are all adults here, correct?
debates for the sake of what?
Buy what you like to drive...they are all great cars and have value to the person who purchased the car to enjoy....
Of course the T is the best one.......if you bought a T...
The GTS is the best for the ones who bought one, the S....etc.
Thats what making a personal choice is...
I like my T and my 987 Spyder....that s why I bought them..
But I had a hard time deciding if the T was best or the S, or the GTS was best for me...ultimately it was the bucket seats and the standard features of the T that made me decide.... for ME
It would be nice if everyone didn't think they are smarter than everyone else and somehow their opinion is more important to everyone else who wants to buy an S, GTS, T, base, etc...
Just wow....
Its crap like this that keeps me off rennlist....
But that is just my opinion...carry on...
