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I have not picked any header yet. I am waiting until all of the dyno results are in before buying one. If it so happens to be Vektor then I will buy Vektor and if its Kline then its Kline.
"It might be a power loss, it might be a response loss or it might be a loss to your wallet, but nothing is free except for what you have right now."
If you are acknowledging that your headers might provide a power or response loss over OEM then this is the first time I have heard you say this and its contradictory to the test results you have provided.
I dont think too many folks would pay $4000 for headers that decrease power or response (except maybe 4 point 0) but, if the welds look nice then maybe?
"I won't give away or discount our product so you can feel better about your decision making process"
Never asked for free headers. Never asked for a discount either. Go back and re-read the thread posts. I will pay FULL RETAIL for the Vektors, so long as I can return them for a full refund if they do not perform reasonably close to what your 3 other dyno tests have shown. I also agreed to allow the forum to be the deciding judge of what reasonably close is so that you cannot back peddle into "fearing" what I feel close is. Still not willing..
Your unwillingness to stand behind your product is what disgusts me the most. Do you think people (ME) want to spend hundreds of dollars in labor and hundreds more in dyno testing JUST to return your headers?
Or maybe I have a vendetta against you and your company because I work for (WHOEVER) and want to destroy your product? I WANT YOUR HEADERS TO BE THE BEST PERFORMING AND WANT TO TEST THEM.
Its going to happen in short time anyway so I do wish you the best of luck in the shootout. I am fully aware that if your headers do not perform as advertised that there will be a myriad of excuses from altitude to heat soak to accuracy of dyno to blah blah blah, but I am also certain based on the number of PM's I have received that there are a great many people very interested in the results. I think the winner will eliminate the losers from the marketplace, so I understand the concern...
Jesus Christ dude. A bit hypocritical you want someone else to do all the testing so you can reap the benefits?
Apparently no independant test will meet your standards so why dont you man up and do it? I've tried to stay positive but appears you are constantly negative on everything. Pull your pants up and put the nay sayers to rest. I'll post a dyno after my mods are complete so everyone can see what a cobb tune, ams ic's, ipd plenum, bmc filters, and Kline headers can do on a dynojet in 100 percent humidity in a 110 degree warehouse. You get more bee's with honey....
Flsupraguy: Maybe you are new to the thread. I have every intention of doing my own dyno testing. Not asking anyone to test for me to reap benefits.
Go back and read a few dozen posts and then come on back. I am going to get dyno testing done so I guess I manned up long ago..
spdracerut: "If you're more concerned about clearance from the road than performance, then you would never drive a car with lowered suspension"
Which is why I dont lower my suspension I suppose.
Flsupraguy: Maybe you are new to the thread. I have every intention of doing my own dyno testing. Not asking anyone to test for me to reap benefits.
Go back and read a few dozen posts and then come on back. I am going to get dyno testing done so I guess I manned up long ago..
spdracerut: "If you're more concerned about clearance from the road than performance, then you would never drive a car with lowered suspension"
Which is why I dont lower my suspension I suppose.
Please post up some back to back dynos with Kline, Fabspeed, and Vektor to prove is all wrong.....
Since Kline and Fabspeed offer a 30 day return policy why dont you give one of them a shot?
Maybe PTS has some pull with those manufacturers, because according to them, they do not have a satisfaction guaranteed return policy.
It would be nice if Kline and Fabspeed piped in here on the endorsement for your testing. According to the Fabspeed website: To qualify for return, the product must be unused and remain in undamaged and sealed original packaging.... And here's what Kline says about non-warranty returns: Under no circumstances can an order be returned. However should an order have a defect, we will cover this under our warranty policy
Originally Posted by PTS-BRG
If you are acknowledging that your headers might provide a power or response loss over OEM then this is the first time I have heard you say this and its contradictory to the test results you have provided.
I did not say that I was merely making examples. The loss incurred by our product is going to be to your wallet.
Originally Posted by PTS-BRG
Your unwillingness to stand behind your product is what disgusts me the most.
So don't include them in your test. You have an obvious contempt.
Originally Posted by PTS-BRG
I think the winner will eliminate the losers from the marketplace, so I understand the concern...
You think 2 of the 3 manufacturer's will be eliminated from the marketplace because of the testing you want to do?
Not getting into a pissing match about fluid mechanics, but I can tell you something...
There's really no argument there. The laws of physics are not arguable, they are scientifically proven.
Originally Posted by PTS-BRG
Those gentle bends and even length tubes also reduce the amount of clearance from the road.
...they also reduce rear end clearance by several inches.
No. Now you're just making up crap. How credible are your results going to be when you just make up things like this without ever having laid a finger on the actual product?
There's really no argument there. The laws of physics are not arguable, they are scientifically proven.
No. Now you're just making up crap. How credible are your results going to be when you just make up things like this without ever having laid a finger on the actual product?
is your website down? Pm me contact info and website please
I couldn't care less about pretty welds. Swaintech coating
Once Again, You are the one that needs to take your own advice and READ what is written. Never once have I said pretty welds did anything at all. In fact You are the one that keeps bringing that up. The only time I mention it is above where I clearly state I couldn't give a crap.
Originally Posted by PTS-BRG
I dont think too many folks would pay $4000 for headers that decrease power or response (except maybe 4 point 0) but, if the welds look nice then maybe?
.
There you go again, desperately clutching at straws. Trying to avoid you looking silly......You have the issue with the welds. You are confusing me with someone else. Again, I know you are slow to learn, but I don't care about the wlelds, I never have. You need to get over the welds. I was talking about the greatest radius bends and superior collector, which are obvious to anyone who knows what they are talking about. But not obvious to you.
Originally Posted by spdracerut
Quick application of basic fluid mechanics.
PTS-BRG, I think you'll agree that Kline has tightest bends and Vektor the most gentle? A regular 90deg flanged pipe elbow has a flow loss coefficient of 0.3 vs. a long radius 0.2.
No point in explaining this to him. He says that IPD "Y" is snake oil in comparison to the stock "T" He does not get it at all. Apparently only dyno charts yield facts. But he can't read them either.
Originally Posted by PTS-BRG
Not getting into a pissing match about fluid mechanics, ..
That's because you just got 100% owned. Your credibility is Zero.
Go on, reply with I like the pretty welds again. Once again, its your issue not mine. Re-read the posts. You'll find I don't care.
Phil from Fabspeed here.
Sorry, I was late to the party. I was on vacation.
In previous models we have tried to go with equal length headers and we ran into the issue of catching the headers underneath the vehicle at the track. We have changed the design of the header to help with ground clearance for that reason.
We have designed our headers to be a mix of best sound and performance together.
We also created a flat collectors as well for flow purposes and to give you more clarence.
We might lose a little with the step from oval to round but it is negligible. We have also not seen a need to go expand the pipes to a larger diameter. We chose to go shorter so the gases can get to the turbos faster.
Also if you are that worried about HP I would highly suggest going with the sport cats or tune they will benefit you more.
Vector is the best at what? Looks? Welds? Last time I checked you couldn't see the welds on headers even if you wedged your head below the tailpipes.
The only thing that matters is gains and performance. If headers looks hi tech, have laser welds, Platinum coated flanges and designed by Apple, it makes no difference if it cant make power.
People are throwing a lot of money into Vector headers with NO independent testing based on ceramic coatings and pretty welds.
Kline has been in the business for a hell of a lot longer than vector has and has been time tested for quality. That doesnt mean that Kline produces any more or less power, all it means is that they have history as a reputable well respected performance company and vector hasn't earned that reputation yet.
We have all heard that Fabspeed isnt the best but, until the tests are done we have no real proof one way or the other.
My money would be on the Kline just for reputation, but I have to KNOW who produces the most gains and NO LOSS over stock before I waste any time or money on pretty welds.
Let me also say that both Kline and Fab have provided their headers for testing whereas Vector has not. That alone speaks volumes to me. If you really have the best headers then you should welcome someone proving it against your competitors. By not wanting to be involved it indicates to me that they aren't confident in their own part. Of course, their answer is "we have had testing" or "we dont trust YOUR testing".
Ok. In any case, its going to get tested and the information will be published so you can be on board or on the sidelines...
But I thought you were going to test the Vektors yourself and publish the result. You said you would buy them, test them and reveal the result. That’s what you stated in another thread. Where is the result?
09-29-2018, 04:00 PM
