Marc D Gonsalves

VektorPerformance

You've definitely got the right way of going about it here. Sound is so subjective and it's even more difficult when going over a recording. Getting to a meet where there are several modified 991.2 cars is your best bet, not an easy endeavor depending on your location, but would certainly pay off in smiles per mile once you make the final decision. If you have any big PCA auto-x events nearby that might be a good opportunity as well. In my region guys tend to be pretty laid back and open with ride-alongs as well, which would give you a better idea of the in-cabin sounds that you would be hearing.

PTS-BRG

Sound is subjective, performance numbers not so much. There are dyno tests in the works to determine which (if any) of the headers you mentioned will provide more, less or no increase in performance.

I suggest anyone in the market for headers sit back for a little while and wait for the results before plunking down your hard earned money based on welds, bends or tube length. HP numbers don't lie.

flsupraguy

Admittedly I choose the kline over the fabspeed for sound mainly being equal length. Vektor are by far the nicest but personally couldn't justify the $$$ for them being a street car...

PTS-BRG

The sound is secondary to me. If the headers cant improve the performance I see no reason to change them. After the three mentioned have been independently dyno tested we will have a clear HP winner. As far as which one will sound better, that will be up to the individual listener...

flsupraguy

Understandable, however I heard a sound clip of the fabspeed and it sounded same as stock. the owner told me he picked up no power. I saw a video with the kline and owner said he picked up about 20 at the wheels. that was enough for me to pull the trigger on the kline. I didnt want to spend 3k plus for the vektors (although they are the nicest quality)

VektorPerformance

"How does your header compare to 'XYZ's header?"

Here is my response from a similar recent FB inquiry...

What are your metrics? Quality? Where the materials come from or to what standards they are made to? Made in the USA? Manufacturing processes for forming? Level of craftsmanship in the welding (prep, back-purge, penetration, visual...)? Quality standards and certification of the welders? Quality checks that are done in process? Quality of the finishing, blending and porting? Customer service standards? Level of warranty? Amount of engineering, development and verification of design with testing? Background and knowledge of the engineer that's designing the products? Amount of dedicated track car installs? How it feels in the seat of your pants? Sound? Ease of installation? Cost? Spool and transient response? Effects on fuel efficiency? Dyno numbers?

Every aspect has a priority associated with it that is different for each one of us.
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///M3THOD

Agreed. I think the headers will change the exhaust tone with the equal length runners.

I personally dont care for the exhaust note of the PSE. I have sport cats and while the volume is increased from stock, but I could deal with the valves open setting currently for Daily driving and whole additional level of volume for the aggressive setting.

Im excited to hear your car after the exhaust mods. The AP exhaust is a full 3" and I think the longer piping, x pipe and side exits will refine and improve the exhaust note. I find the the PSE to sound farty sometimes, whereas the Turbo's s Ive been in with a full exhaust just sound awesome.

flsupraguy

Ill post a video when car is done

4 Point 0

That's not the first time I have heard of someone with the Fabspeed headers claim they got no power. So they are out for me. The full Kline exhaust sounds epic, but there is so little information about the headers. Do you have a full picture of the Kline headers? Agreed, Vektor seem to be the best so far, but like most things, the best always costs a little more.

PTS-BRG

Vector is the best at what? Looks? Welds? Last time I checked you couldn't see the welds on headers even if you wedged your head below the tailpipes.
The only thing that matters is gains and performance. If headers looks hi tech, have laser welds, Platinum coated flanges and designed by Apple, it makes no difference if it cant make power.

People are throwing a lot of money into Vector headers with NO independent testing based on ceramic coatings and pretty welds.
Kline has been in the business for a hell of a lot longer than vector has and has been time tested for quality. That doesnt mean that Kline produces any more or less power, all it means is that they have history as a reputable well respected performance company and vector hasn't earned that reputation yet.

We have all heard that Fabspeed isnt the best but, until the tests are done we have no real proof one way or the other.

My money would be on the Kline just for reputation, but I have to KNOW who produces the most gains and NO LOSS over stock before I waste any time or money on pretty welds.

Let me also say that both Kline and Fab have provided their headers for testing whereas Vector has not. That alone speaks volumes to me. If you really have the best headers then you should welcome someone proving it against your competitors. By not wanting to be involved it indicates to me that they aren't confident in their own part. Of course, their answer is "we have had testing" or "we dont trust YOUR testing".

Ok. In any case, its going to get tested and the information will be published so you can be on board or on the sidelines...

Psorcery

How much did you pay for the Kline headers? VIDS ASAP!

4 Point 0

Quite Frankly, I wouldn't trust your tests either.

I have eyes, I can see Vektor is clearly superior with their collector. They have the largest radius curves, and are equal length. I couldn't care less about pretty welds. Swaintech coating have been around forever and have independently done tests.

I have no dog in this fight. I am on the other side of the planet. I am not affiliated with any company at all. Vektor have posted independent tests. Again you want to ignore that. IPD did it as well, and you ignore that.

There have been multiple owners who have been disappointed with there Fabspeed headers. (You ignore that) The fact that they aren't equal length should explain the lack of gains.

Quite frankly you are all hot and bothered about dyno sheets, and when you get them, you either don't understand them, or brush them off because it doesn't make a delta the entire way up the curve. That would be great to have magical bits that just bolted on and each one of them magically increased delta over the entire length of the curve. In reality it doesn't happen.

To get that its called FULL Stage 2. Meaning you add, Headers, Hi flow cats, and exhaust and Air filter (CAI) and IPD and then Tune for all of that. Then you get a modest increase all the way along the curve. Not just by randomly picking one and attacking each bit individually because it didn't do a plus 10Hp throughout the entire curve.

After all of that, I wouldn't expect more than 40Hp (added On top of Stage 1) . Now I can understand you thinking all of that is not worth it, but that's a different argument. Thats just a $$$ arguement.

The best bang per buck mod, you already have is the COBB Stage 1. I would think that everything we do, Stage 2 and Stage 3 will not equal how much we got from just Stage 1.

I would guess the next biggest gains will be from E85. Especially after Stage 3 (Intercoolers and more tune). Of after that is Stage 4 (Bigger Turbo's).

Plenty of owners have dynoed stage 1 at 480 HP. I would guess Full stage 2 will come in around 520Hp with varying gains up the curve from 20-40HP.

Stage 3 Should be 550 Hp with Intercooler - Cat bypass - gapped down plugs more boost, and even some race fuel or a little E85.

Then Full E85 Should see 600 Hp (With full stage 3)

PTS-BRG

"I have eyes, I can see Vektor is clearly superior with their collector."

You mean you are able to look at a collector and determine it is superior in performance over all other collectors without any dyno testing just from looking at it?
So, you have the forums first dyno eyes and I would like to send you several more photos for your review so that you can tell me if my exhaust is superior based on its flanges or however you make these observations.
I can see it has the cleanest welds and best marketing, but I surely cant see it is superior over sloppier welds which have no bearing on anything.

I read your posts, I see you are the forum TRACKBOY who dumps 50k into a car to make it better than a GT3 but, I never could understand why you just didnt buy a GT3?
I understand making mods to our cars to improve it but, there is a limit to re-engineering suspension, turbos, exhaust, and everything else. Its your money, its your car, but its excessive to me.

You DO have a dog in this fight just like you DO have a dog in the IPD fight. You dump money wildly into these parts without a clue if they improve performance. You own the IPD and intend on buying the Vector (surprise) so it behooves you to defend the part and your decision to buy an unproven part. Of course if its proven to be counter productive (like the IPD) you justify the tests as showing gains in only a 12% range in the RPMs but disregard that 88% of the time the IPD reduces horsepower. Who the hell wants that?
I can read a dyno chart, I saw the IPD improve performance over a 1000 rpm range and decrease performance over 7000 rpm range. If you want to focus on that 1000 rpm range then you have gains, I agree.

If the Vector headers show 19hp gains from 2000-3000 but shows a 25% reduction in HP from 3000-9000 is that something that produces gains to you? Cant argue it does from 2-3000 but, over the entire span of the rpm range you are NETTING an overall DECREASE in HP which wold make the part counter productive.

4 Point 0

Once again, YES, my eyes can see that something that is full width flow in size, is better than three ends squashed together. Each full length tube, is allowed to flow 100% without interference from the other tubes.

Add to that, they are equal length, they will now arrive at the collector at difference times. So each one will be allowed to fully scavenge and clear before the next pulse arrives. Anyone who understands mandrel bending or flow will be able to see this with there eyes. So once again YES I can see that this is superior to something that has pulses arriving at the Same time, crashing into each other and squashed together at the exit.

For a third time, this can be seen just with yours eyes. It is clearly superior. However, how much extra power will they make? My eyes cannot see that.

I had ordered a GT3, I had got allocation, and I cancelled it at the last minute. The turbo is a superior car. It wouldn't matter which 911 I bought, I would mod the hell out of it. I enjoy modding cars. Its just a hobby.

The GT3 is a great car. But N/A has had its run. If you don't have boost these days you will loose. Its not just about beating a GT3, I only say that because a close friend has one and we enjoy racing each other and competing. I mainly race other brands of vehicles. So a tuned turbo is a better platform to mod than an N/a that is already reaching its upper limits.

I haven't bought the Vektor yet. It is the front runner. I have been patiently awaiting your tests. You were so highly vocal about. I can wait, as I am doing loads of other mods at present. I expect the Vektor will win, again just based on my eyes seeing a larger diameter curve and a superior collector that doesn't have the pulses crashing into one another. But I expect very little in it. The independent tests claim 19Hp. So I would expect Kline to get at least 12-15Hp? So with variance on a dyno and heat soak, I doubt there will be much in it. So it seems a fruitless pursuit, but knock yourself out. Go with the one that sounds the best. I like the Kline. I have said above I think it is one of the best Sounding exhausts out there. But I most likely will go Akra, I have had them before and I trust their in house claims. I am holding off for the chance to hear some in person. Performance is important, but I would like some good sound as well.