When 370 is enough
08-05-2018, 04:37 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
^ groundhog is exactly correct, and you don't need to look at the curves on a chart. You can see it in a video here:
https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
I'm driving a base 991.2 Carrera 7MT on 305 summer tires, following a better driver who knows the course in a 991.1 GT3 RS with PDK and R-compound 325s. Due to the iPhone's camera, and depending on your screen, it can be difficult to see what we saw—which was the back end of that RS digging and bobbing as the driver looked for traction out of second-gear bends. In other words, that's all he had up those hills. Of course, it would have been a very different story on a race track.
The critical point comes at the end of the video, which is the sheer fun Michael Harley and I were having in that car. We've driven a lot of Porsches over the years together. Rarely have we gotten that animated on a press trip drive.
https://www.pca.org/news/2015-11-10/...updates-wvideo
I'm driving a base 991.2 Carrera 7MT on 305 summer tires, following a better driver who knows the course in a 991.1 GT3 RS with PDK and R-compound 325s. Due to the iPhone's camera, and depending on your screen, it can be difficult to see what we saw—which was the back end of that RS digging and bobbing as the driver looked for traction out of second-gear bends. In other words, that's all he had up those hills. Of course, it would have been a very different story on a race track.
The critical point comes at the end of the video, which is the sheer fun Michael Harley and I were having in that car. We've driven a lot of Porsches over the years together. Rarely have we gotten that animated on a press trip drive.
08-05-2018, 06:13 PM
#63
^ groundhog is exactly correct, and you don't need to look at the curves on a chart.
The critical point comes at the end of the video, which is the sheer fun Michael Harley and I were having in that car. We've driven a lot of Porsches over the years together. Rarely have we gotten that animated on a press trip drive.
The critical point comes at the end of the video, which is the sheer fun Michael Harley and I were having in that car. We've driven a lot of Porsches over the years together. Rarely have we gotten that animated on a press trip drive.
The sheer fun I had on those test drives (vs other cars) sounds similar to your experience and basically sealed the deal for me.
So basically you're responsible for making my wife miserable.
Bless you...
08-05-2018, 06:49 PM
#64
Originally Posted by stout
Great post, Bemo, and (as is so often the case on digital platforms but too seldom recognized) we agree on more than we disagree on—and are after the same thing.Not sure on that. Have to think about, but think my original post and much of the subsequent discussion was addressing all three prongs even the thread title wasn't.We definitely agree on this. I was happy with 320 in a Cayman S, 160 in an Abarth, 385 in the GT4, etc.On this prong, we disagree—but I am not sure either of us wrong...for you, or me.
I can see where someone doesn't like the 3.0 as much as the previous 3.4 or 3.8 (even if I think this is often but not always a case of them not having much seat time with them), or doesn't get the same thrill or aural excitement without the howl. But I assure you, there's plenty of visceral engagement in a Ruf CTR or a Ferrari F40...and far more than any modern Carrera from the 3.2 forward. Basically, there are "turbo-ish turbo" engines and "NA-ish turbo" engines. The latter are fairly rare, but wonderful. The 3.0 is one of them.Probably the biggest point of criticism to be lodged at 991.1s, and an area where the 991.2 is much improved but still short of a 997 or 996 when it comes to feel. Both the 991.1 and 991.2 shred the 996/997 when it comes to steering response and accuracy, on the other hand. I remember first drive in a 991.1, thinking "it's not that bad." Then I drove an early 991.1S back to back with a 997 RS 4.0 for a few hundred miles in streaming rain...and I wanted the 997 all the time. I could tell what the nose was up to better, and the grip was better too once the tires were warm.
When it comes to EPAS vs HPAS, it's worth a drive in a 964 if you get a chance, as the power steering in those is pretty blah imo. HPAS got better over time, and was very good by the time of the 996 and 997, so I suspect EPAS will do the same as they figure out how to assist while letting certain feedback through.This is where we really agree, and probably the biggest point of my post. Actually, I couldn't agree more. "370" is just one marker along that line of thinking, as you rightly point out. It could be 160, 240, 300, etc.
What I pine for is a modern Porsche sports car that's on the scale and fun factor of my 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth...which might have been the most fun and most useful daily I've ever had. It weighed just 2500 pounds, the scale was fabulous as you could park it anywhere and its scale seemed to make it fit into the world more unobtrusively as well. People smiled. And its driver smiled. Something like that, but lower, maybe a bit longer, with 200hp and RWD...yes, that's something that would interest me. I'm agnostic on power supply, whether NA, FI, or even electric if that's what it takes—so long as it is fun and alive in my hands.
I can see where someone doesn't like the 3.0 as much as the previous 3.4 or 3.8 (even if I think this is often but not always a case of them not having much seat time with them), or doesn't get the same thrill or aural excitement without the howl. But I assure you, there's plenty of visceral engagement in a Ruf CTR or a Ferrari F40...and far more than any modern Carrera from the 3.2 forward. Basically, there are "turbo-ish turbo" engines and "NA-ish turbo" engines. The latter are fairly rare, but wonderful. The 3.0 is one of them.Probably the biggest point of criticism to be lodged at 991.1s, and an area where the 991.2 is much improved but still short of a 997 or 996 when it comes to feel. Both the 991.1 and 991.2 shred the 996/997 when it comes to steering response and accuracy, on the other hand. I remember first drive in a 991.1, thinking "it's not that bad." Then I drove an early 991.1S back to back with a 997 RS 4.0 for a few hundred miles in streaming rain...and I wanted the 997 all the time. I could tell what the nose was up to better, and the grip was better too once the tires were warm.
When it comes to EPAS vs HPAS, it's worth a drive in a 964 if you get a chance, as the power steering in those is pretty blah imo. HPAS got better over time, and was very good by the time of the 996 and 997, so I suspect EPAS will do the same as they figure out how to assist while letting certain feedback through.This is where we really agree, and probably the biggest point of my post. Actually, I couldn't agree more. "370" is just one marker along that line of thinking, as you rightly point out. It could be 160, 240, 300, etc.
What I pine for is a modern Porsche sports car that's on the scale and fun factor of my 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth...which might have been the most fun and most useful daily I've ever had. It weighed just 2500 pounds, the scale was fabulous as you could park it anywhere and its scale seemed to make it fit into the world more unobtrusively as well. People smiled. And its driver smiled. Something like that, but lower, maybe a bit longer, with 200hp and RWD...yes, that's something that would interest me. I'm agnostic on power supply, whether NA, FI, or even electric if that's what it takes—so long as it is fun and alive in my hands.
Hell I'd get a turbo 911 in a heartbeat if the alternative was a hybrid or a full electric appliance, those days are fast approaching and there's no escape.
I stepped back in time and got the 2013 M3, for a new turbo M money, precisely due to the NA/HPAS combo. Soon I will no longer have that option and wanted to enjoy it while I could.
We'll always have a 911 in the garage, either NA or turbo but never a hybrid or electric.
All the best
Bemo
08-05-2018, 07:55 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
The buzz is probably the pse valves rattling open. Its very noticeable because there is no sound deadening. I hear this every time at 2700ish rpm when i mash the gas.
08-05-2018, 07:57 PM
#66
08-05-2018, 07:59 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
Then im stumped...
08-05-2018, 10:05 PM
#68
I tested on my way home today and actually I do get similar buzz at certain higher RPMs and PSE on like in the video. Typically I’m the mid range and it doesn’t happen there. Anyone know what’s up with the buzz??? Is this a PSE thing or all have it?
08-05-2018, 10:28 PM
#69
Yea I remember a video about him trash talking a 981 cayman gts. Matt is sometimes flat out disrespectful when trying other people’s cars...makes me cringe. He does place a huge emphasis on power like a corvette fanboy at heart. Sad to admit his videos still show up in my YouTube recommendations list and occasionally I can’t resist and click on then. Remember he bought a perstine condition (forgot model...1970s) 911 as his first Porsche and wanting to gut it by modding it into a safari build...that was painful to hear.
Last edited by hacker-pschorr; 08-07-2018 at 10:42 PM. Reason: Removed reponse to deleted post
08-05-2018, 11:18 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
C'mon folks. If y'all want to criticize MF's work, that's one thing and fair game—but keep it professional, respectful, and courteous or do it somewhere else.
While I don't know Matt all that well, I'll say this: The first time I met him, on the 718 Boxster press launch, my camera failed and guess who opened his case and rigged me up on the spot—with expensive gear? That's right. Matt Farah. Helped out a guy he's never met before, on another continent, with zero hesitation. It was like he took the shirt right off his back, but he didn't make a big deal about it. "No worries, man. Just bring it back whenever you're good. I'll be up later."
I'll ask nicely: Can a few of you maybe edit your posts, and quoted posts? The work is fair game, but let's not make it personal. I think we're better than that, so let's clean this thread up. So I can turn this post into three dots...
While I don't know Matt all that well, I'll say this: The first time I met him, on the 718 Boxster press launch, my camera failed and guess who opened his case and rigged me up on the spot—with expensive gear? That's right. Matt Farah. Helped out a guy he's never met before, on another continent, with zero hesitation. It was like he took the shirt right off his back, but he didn't make a big deal about it. "No worries, man. Just bring it back whenever you're good. I'll be up later."
I'll ask nicely: Can a few of you maybe edit your posts, and quoted posts? The work is fair game, but let's not make it personal. I think we're better than that, so let's clean this thread up. So I can turn this post into three dots...
08-06-2018, 12:13 AM
#71
Rennlist Member
Going back on track here (pun intended). This discussion about enough power reminds me of some of the most fun I have had racing, and that was in "under-powered" cars. Whether seeking the fastest lap time, or going wheel-to-wheel, not being able to simply stomp on the accelerator requires a more disciplined and precise control of speed, especially not doing anything that loses speed. More power would have been "easy" fun; going faster without big power was hard-earned fun.
08-06-2018, 11:45 AM
#72
Gotta say I agree completely with the OP on this. I didn't read the whole thread as it was going off point quickly but the idea that people who drive the base car only do it because thats all they can afford is silly. I've owned a 911 GTS, Cayman GTS, 2016 GT3 and 2018 GT3 just to name a few of the 14 toy cars, not to mention all the race cars I've had. For me ...more is not always better...the sum of the parts and how everything comes together for your intended use is more important. I now own a T. Not because I can't afford an S or GTS or GT3...but because I was intrigued by it. Much like Pete, I have to say it's brilliant. It's not so much that it's "enough". its that its not too much or too little. Fantastic car,
08-06-2018, 12:08 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
I was at the dealership waiting for my car. I was sitting in the beautiful waiting room. There was an elderly woman sitting in the chair across from me. I assumed that she was there with somebody. The service guy pulled up 991.2 C2S In racing yellow. The woman gets up and gets into the car and drives off. I asked the service guy if that was her car. He said yes. Her and her husband have had 4 911s in the last 10 years. They each only one. I was amazed. It is something I aspire to.
08-06-2018, 12:09 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
Gotta say I agree completely with the OP on this. I didn't read the whole thread as it was going off point quickly but the idea that people who drive the base car only do it because thats all they can afford is silly. I've owned a 911 GTS, Cayman GTS, 2016 GT3 and 2018 GT3 just to name a few of the 14 toy cars, not to mention all the race cars I've had. For me ...more is not always better...the sum of the parts and how everything comes together for your intended use is more important. I now own a T. Not because I can't afford an S or GTS or GT3...but because I was intrigued by it. Much like Pete, I have to say it's brilliant. It's not so much that it's "enough". its that its not too much or too little. Fantastic car,
Well, there is that for sure...
...but also, the C2 is all the car that I can handle.
08-06-2018, 12:10 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Gotta say I agree completely with the OP on this. I didn't read the whole thread as it was going off point quickly but the idea that people who drive the base car only do it because thats all they can afford is silly. I've owned a 911 GTS, Cayman GTS, 2016 GT3 and 2018 GT3 just to name a few of the 14 toy cars, not to mention all the race cars I've had. For me ...more is not always better...the sum of the parts and how everything comes together for your intended use is more important. I now own a T. Not because I can't afford an S or GTS or GT3...but because I was intrigued by it. Much like Pete, I have to say it's brilliant. It's not so much that it's "enough". its that its not too much or too little. Fantastic car,
