When 370 is enough
08-03-2018, 11:01 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Cobb has earned the respect of a lot of enthusiasts across a number of platforms, and I suspect it has done this through an intelligent approach to turbo tuning. They are one of the few I would consider allowing into the ECU or other areas of a new Porsche that's mine. All too easy to get into a sticky situation...
Sticky, is that you?
08-03-2018, 11:16 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
From this thread, posts 134 and 135
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1077...l#post15189398
Two new Rennlist users (or is it just one?) with single-digit post counts, discussing Cobb’s “canned tunes” and BoostAddict’s claimed ¼-mile record.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1077...l#post15189398
Two new Rennlist users (or is it just one?) with single-digit post counts, discussing Cobb’s “canned tunes” and BoostAddict’s claimed ¼-mile record.
Not sure what TiAL's will cost, but there's also mcchip-DKR and TPC Racing with turbocharger upgrades available. I'm sure there will be even more options as the aftermarket ramps up. The X51 kit with bolt-ons and a Cobb tune on a base would probably be the best bang for your buck. Although with larger aftermarket turbos, I'd go with a C4 instead of a C2 to put the power down.
Also, Cobb tuned one of the TiAL turbo 991.2's so maybe there will be a canned tune available for those turbos at some point?
Also, Cobb tuned one of the TiAL turbo 991.2's so maybe there will be a canned tune available for those turbos at some point?
08-03-2018, 11:26 PM
#35
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Or at least, it's enough for me in this car.
It's a funny thing, but the other evening I was out for a quick romp in the woods before the sun got too low and, corner to corner, I found myself not only sated by the thrust and pace of a "mere" Carrera, but wondering if I needed or even wanted more power. And the answer was...no.
This is funny to me because I drive all sorts of cars and have gotten used to 500-750 hp, and even 900 hp. Don't get me wrong...I like power when I have it under foot—but I find that the character of the engine matters far more to me: the way it makes its power, and how that power output ties into everything else about the car. The grip. The handling. The brakes. Etc. And that evening, as the air cooled (but was still warm) in those woods, this "mere" Carrera was a very, very sweet package.
That is all.
It's a funny thing, but the other evening I was out for a quick romp in the woods before the sun got too low and, corner to corner, I found myself not only sated by the thrust and pace of a "mere" Carrera, but wondering if I needed or even wanted more power. And the answer was...no.
This is funny to me because I drive all sorts of cars and have gotten used to 500-750 hp, and even 900 hp. Don't get me wrong...I like power when I have it under foot—but I find that the character of the engine matters far more to me: the way it makes its power, and how that power output ties into everything else about the car. The grip. The handling. The brakes. Etc. And that evening, as the air cooled (but was still warm) in those woods, this "mere" Carrera was a very, very sweet package.
That is all.
08-03-2018, 11:48 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm curious, too. But it would be hard to find out. Even in a perfect world, where you could match the 3.0's peak hp & peak tq with an NA 9A1 flat six, I can't see how you'd match the tq curve of the turbo 3.0 with an NA flat six, even a 3.8. That's gonna have knock-on effects in how you use chassis grip, etc. and change the user experience. Both cars were developed as complete packages, but my sense is that a 991.2 Carrera or Carrera T chassis would be very nice with an NA 9A1 engine. No bad ingredients there.
08-03-2018, 11:51 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
We all know post count, namely on RL, equals tuning knowledge. It's one of Newton's laws right?
Your alcohol content analogy simply doesn't work. Maybe it needs a few more posts?
Regardless, while the base car can be satisfying it is capable of much, much more than the factory gives you. I've never seen a wine change its alcohol content once uncorked.
Your alcohol content analogy simply doesn't work. Maybe it needs a few more posts?
Regardless, while the base car can be satisfying it is capable of much, much more than the factory gives you. I've never seen a wine change its alcohol content once uncorked.
As for 70 year olds, some of them have done more crazy and amazing stuff than you will ever do. And the fact they survived it means they might know things worth learning about.
08-04-2018, 12:07 AM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Stout: I agree with you on your original post. The hp and torque makes the base motor plenty of fun.
08-04-2018, 12:50 AM
#39
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Oh, it's possible. Been watching the threads on Cobb's tune with interest, and suspect a tune with the standard Carrera's turbochargers is probably more up my alley than the S/GTS units or aftermarket turbos. I very much like the light-pressure nature of the 370hp engine...so if the stock powerband's "NA" character is maintained with more power, I can see where that would be a sweet setup—possibly more appealing to me than a factory or modded S or GTS.
To be perfectly honest, this and a level of "wait and see how the early adopters do with some time and miles" are the only things that would stop me from doing a Cobb tune if I wanted or needed more power.
Cobb has earned the respect of a lot of enthusiasts across a number of platforms, and I suspect it has done this through an intelligent approach to turbo tuning. They are one of the few I would consider allowing into the ECU or other areas of a new Porsche that's mine. All too easy to get into a sticky situation...
Sticky, is that you?
To be perfectly honest, this and a level of "wait and see how the early adopters do with some time and miles" are the only things that would stop me from doing a Cobb tune if I wanted or needed more power.
Cobb has earned the respect of a lot of enthusiasts across a number of platforms, and I suspect it has done this through an intelligent approach to turbo tuning. They are one of the few I would consider allowing into the ECU or other areas of a new Porsche that's mine. All too easy to get into a sticky situation...
Sticky, is that you?
08-04-2018, 01:23 AM
#40
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm curious, too. But it would be hard to find out. Even in a perfect world, where you could match the 3.0's peak hp & peak tq with an NA 9A1 flat six, I can't see how you'd match the tq curve of the turbo 3.0 with an NA flat six, even a 3.8. That's gonna have knock-on effects in how you use chassis grip, etc. and change the user experience. Both cars were developed as complete packages, but my sense is that a 991.2 Carrera or Carrera T chassis would be very nice with an NA 9A1 engine. No bad ingredients there.
08-04-2018, 02:57 AM
#41
I agree with the premise of the OPs post and the simple statement that 370hp is enough...it was for me when I drove a carreraT(-the first 991 id driven since a .1 black edition). 370 in that car-which was great loking and felt awesome on a mildly spirited test drive..And then I drove a .2 S. And then I built a GTS on the configurator and compared cost vs. options & 450hp avail on the GTS.
Bottom line for me was 370 was plenty and a great effort by stuttgart, but 450 was within reach.
Bottom line for me was 370 was plenty and a great effort by stuttgart, but 450 was within reach.
08-04-2018, 05:15 AM
#42
I'm curious, too. But it would be hard to find out. Even in a perfect world, where you could match the 3.0's peak hp & peak tq with an NA 9A1 flat six, I can't see how you'd match the tq curve of the turbo 3.0 with an NA flat six, even a 3.8. That's gonna have knock-on effects in how you use chassis grip, etc. and change the user experience. Both cars were developed as complete packages, but my sense is that a 991.2 Carrera or Carrera T chassis would be very nice with an NA 9A1 engine. No bad ingredients there.
Another way of looking at it is for 75% of its rev range it out pulls the the Series 1 GT cars - hence a big part of the fun.
08-04-2018, 10:59 AM
#43
10 years ago I never would have gone for a „base“ Porsche sportscar (regardless whether Carrera or Boxster) and that had nothing to do with snobbery or the sheer lust for HP - I simply missed the low end torque for daily driving. When I ordered the T some buddies where kidding me: nowadays 370 horses is nothing, you will be a „victim“ on the Autobahn etc. etc.....After doing 1,200 Autobahn km this week (with crazy outside temps around the 40°C mark) I can happily report that even there the 370 horses are enough :-) I think the mere HP number is not indicative for whether people feel what is „enough“. To me it‘s the „character“ of the engine and the whole package what counts and in this respect the base engine with the small turbos mated with the right suspension and transmission is a gem. Having said that some extra power always is tempting (we have this saying: „to have is better than to need“), but I would not go for a tune if this would negatively affect the character of this engine (namely the responsiveness). Actually techart just announced a tuning kit for the T with a mild engine tune (430 hp / 520 nm) accompanied by a new exhaust (looking a bit goofy with 4 exhaust pipes) - seems to address the offering gap of the „Werksleistungssteigerung“ available from the factory for the S models only.
08-04-2018, 11:19 AM
#44
Instructor
Precisely my point, and I believe it's Pete's point as well. If 130 extra HP amounts to to .3-.4 advantage on a twisty course like Monza, how much of that can realistically be put to proper use on public roads and many US road courses? Apparently, not much. It speaks volumes about the torque characteristics of the base motor, it's light weight, chasis and suspension tuning. Bravo Porsche. Bravo.
08-04-2018, 11:19 AM
#45
Porsche have always been smart with how they engineer feel and performance - most modern performance cars are fast, however its the delivery that marks the distinction - for example in the current line up Porsche have used both gearing and torque to define the line up - its worth considering the following in terms of difference in applied force at the contact patch relative to the base model (in third gear, percentage difference to base, the accelerative force relative to the base) - in other words acceleration.
Base
T = 4.4%
S = 16.0%
GTS = 27.6%
GT3 = 28.4%
As you can see the differences are quite large, and well evident on track, where one does two things, brake and accelerate.
Base
T = 4.4%
S = 16.0%
GTS = 27.6%
GT3 = 28.4%
As you can see the differences are quite large, and well evident on track, where one does two things, brake and accelerate.