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Would I take a properly plugged and inner patched tire on the track? No. Autobahn at 150mph? No.
Driving at normal speeds absolutely I see no issues. These are widely accepted approved repairs when done right especially for common small screw and nail punctures not near the sidewall.
The plugs that get installed from the outside are temporary. I have had quite a bit of luck with them but try to get a permanent patch plug installed where I can.
While I don’t plan on getting onto the Autobahn I do plan on doing some spirit of driving and I don’t want to have to worry. Still other than that giant lawsuit that everyone knows about I have never really heard of a patch going bad.
So a few hours ago I just got back from Costco where they did the patch. I called ahead of time to make sure they would do it. They said they could do it no problem and the charge was $11. More than reasonable. When I got to Costco I drop the car off in about a half hour later I got a call from them stating that my car had run-flats and so they could not repair it. This was untrue as my car did not have run-flats. One of the techs insisted that I had run flats and he based it on the name of the tire being called P Zero. He also pushed on the sidewall and said it was noncompliant and therefore had to be a runflat. He then asked me if I had a spare tire. I replied that I did not and then he said it must be run flat tires since they couldn’t sell a car without a spare if it didn’t have runflat tires. I then explained to him that the car came with a pump and fix-a-flat gel. Finally a supervisor came over and looked the tires over and decided that they were not run flats and they went ahead and patched the hole.
All‘s well that ends well I guess.
Can't believe anyone takes their Porsche to Costco. First of all, runflats can be patched and secondly, if the tech doesnt know a runflat from a regular tire I'm not sure thats who you want working on your car.
I have had extensive discussions with tire engineers from Michelin and BF Goodrich and this simply is not true. I say this not to take issue with your opinion, but to point out the facts that any time a tire is punctured the steel bands in the tread are broken. This does two things, first no matter how good the patch or plug, water will eventually work its way into the repair area and rust the belts in the vicinity of the repair, which can lead to a catastrophic tire failure at speed (i.e., blowout). This is why any tire that is repaired automatically loses its speed rating and is not considered safe for high speed, performance driving. While this may be just fine for an old F150 lumbering down to Home Depot at 35 mph on a Sunday, you need to be aware that on a Porsche you have a compromised tire that can fail in high stress situations.
Porsche dealers do not repair tires - at least I have never found one that does. BMW dealers don't either. They're not "pushing" new tires, they have a huge liability factor in the repair were they to do it, and its known to be a temporary repair at best until you get a new tire on the car. Ask a tire engineer.
How long does it take for rust to spread? Does this always occur? Pretty sure there would be massive vibration etc long before a "catastrophic" failure. As long as I wasn't tracking I would have no hesitation with a patched tire. Pretty sure virtually everyone here has run on patched tires at some point.
Personally I just pony up and pay the dealer the few dollars more to use their touchless Hunter tire mounting machine and their Road Force balancer to do any tire replacement work. I'm glad it fortunately worked out for those on this thread. Sometimes you win when you gamble... sometimes you don't.
Edit - I should add: Some of these shops also don't know how to lift the car correctly... which can even result in even worse damage than just the wheels. About a year ago I was at Discount Tire getting new tires for my pickup truck and in the bay closest to the window was a 911 that appeared to be lifted along the the length of the bottom of the rocker panel by a long lift bar padded with long rubber strip. It certainly wasn't lifted by the proper 4 build-in lift points.
How long does it take for rust to spread? Does this always occur? Pretty sure there would be massive vibration etc long before a "catastrophic" failure. As long as I wasn't tracking I would have no hesitation with a patched tire. Pretty sure virtually everyone here has run on patched tires at some point.
In my discussions with the tire engineers (this was at an AMG (Mercedes) event) as one of their paid instructors and we were going through a lot of tires that day for the customers on the track. I brought it up with them as I was curious and they said it varies by climate and use, there was no definitive answer. They were clear they consider any repair to be temporary and the tire should be replaced even under street use.
I have run internally plugged tires, but rarely for more than a few weeks. I almost always buy new tires and will usually do a pair when I get one trashed. But I've been an Instructor since 1996 and seen a lot of really bizzare things happen to cars - I choose to do things correctly and the only tire failure I have had was on one of my commercial trucks.
I don't care what people do - run patched, plugs, whatever floats your boats. It's your car - your money - your trip into the armco. I just like to correct things when I read "Plugs are absolutely fine, there are zero issues with them" and the like, because maybe there is some newbie on the fence and he needs to hear both sides of the discussion, that's all. Carry on.
I can't imagine a plugged tire being safe at high speeds or aggressive driving, ie., the way a Porsche should be driven. It amazes me that someone will buy an expensive car but cheap out when it comes to safer options.
In my discussions with the tire engineers (this was at an AMG (Mercedes) event) as one of their paid instructors and we were going through a lot of tires that day for the customers on the track. I brought it up with them as I was curious and they said it varies by climate and use, there was no definitive answer. They were clear they consider any repair to be temporary and the tire should be replaced even under street use.
I have run internally plugged tires, but rarely for more than a few weeks. I almost always buy new tires and will usually do a pair when I get one trashed. But I've been an Instructor since 1996 and seen a lot of really bizzare things happen to cars - I choose to do things correctly and the only tire failure I have had was on one of my commercial trucks.
I don't care what people do - run patched, plugs, whatever floats your boats. It's your car - your money - your trip into the armco. I just like to correct things when I read "Plugs are absolutely fine, there are zero issues with them" and the like, because maybe there is some newbie on the fence and he needs to hear both sides of the discussion, that's all. Carry on.
Good points. Like A/S tire are "fine" in winter. Thanks for that info.
Interesting thread. This year I've had the misfortune to pick up two nails in different tires (one front, one rear) on two long road trips two months apart. Last week I was in Quebec City, having driven 400 miles from Boston. Somewhere along the way picked up a nail. Made it to the hotel garage without a problem, though I did notice a 6-lb pressure drop in the tire after we stopped for an hour for lunch. Left the car for two days as we toured the city on foot. On Saturday we loaded the car for an excursion outside the city. Tire was completely flat. My guess is that while driving it held pressure fine, when parked it slowly leaked out, and 2 days sitting in place was long enough to empty it.
I used the on-board compressor to refill the tire to about 30 lbs and drove it to a Canadian Tire dealer for a look. They were able to plug it ($25) with no problem (not counting the 3.5 hour wait on a Saturday). The next day we drove the 400 miles home without an issue.
Several months ago while on a PCA Ramble event with 150 other Porsches, we picked up another nail that flattened the tire very quickly in a parking lot. After filling it ourselves, we were able to limp to a local Walmart (the only place open on that Saturday) where a veritable pit crew of techs plugged it in 30 minutes for the bargain price of $10. Wouldn't even accept tips (I wrote a solid letter of commendation). When does that happen?
Now my car has two tires with plugs. Both are holding pressure fine. The set has only 3K miles on it so I'm not really thinking about replacing them (I don't track it).
You could say I've been unlucky for this to happen. Fun fact: the day I bought the car in Connecticut 3 years ago, I picked up a screw in a rear tire ON THE WAY HOME. Was that an omen of some sort? Previously, I owned another 997S cab for 6 years and 70K miles, multiple sets of tires, and not one flat.
On the other hand, these tire mishaps could have happened at night, on a Sunday, or on a highway in the middle of nowhere. Or been unrepairable, in which case we'd be stranded until a new tire could be delivered. In both cases we were able to get them fixed (for little $) and be on our way. So I like to think we were pretty lucky after all.
That said, I'd damn sure prefer to never have this happen again!
For those that need some peace of mind on road trips, I'd recommend one of the various DynaPlug kits. It's compact and can get you back on the road quickly in most cases. We've successfully used one of these on my son's truck. We carry one in each car.
I got the DynaPlug after seeing recommendations from several respected forum members. I chose this particular model because the wide base makes pushing the plug in easier. if you've even done a plug you know it can take some effort. These plugs are also filled with a viscous adhesive to promote an even better seal.
Edit: After reading TwinTurbo's post below, yeah... it is important to note that I was only suggesting this as a temporary fix to get you home or to a shop for a more proper replacement (or patch over the plug if you are comfortable with that).
Patch the tire is OK, not great & why do it when patch/plug is an option?
Plug the tire is fastest, easiest & cheapest & not a good idea unless for temporary, emergency use.
I carry Dynaplug in case I need to DIY to get to a tire shop or get to where I have cell phone service.
For those who follow the Porsche guideline & always replace the tire, do you buy a set of 2 or do you have the new one shaved to match the undamaged one on the same axle?
I always assumed that taking the tire off the rim and plugging the tire from the inside was sufficient without even thinking about speed or driving conditions. I appreciate the different opinions I'm hearing in this thread and am now thinking differently. Tires are so expensive but I need to more closely consider the threat to life and limb (both mine or someone else) in addition to a more expensive repair to the car if a mishap was to happen. We buy Insurance to help after the fact but intelligent prevention is a much better solution. By the way, I always have tire pressure showing on the dash and monitor it all the time while driving. Does anyone else do that?
A bit of side topic in relation to the subject. This morning I unfortunately discovered another nail on the same tire I had it repaired/patched last time. Trying to get an idea if it's safe to do a 2nd repair/patch on the same tire? I don't track or drive in an excessive speed (e.g. 100mph+). Just normal driving and weekend cruise.
The shop that did the repair last time was pretty thorough. Remove the tires, unplugged the nail, sanded down the inside, clean, etc.. and patched it up. I did not have any issues since them on the 1st repair. I suspect using the same process of repair should be OK.
It's Eastern Weekend with shops closed. I hope the air holds until tomorrow morning so I can drive there to get it repaired.
07-09-2018, 01:10 AM
