When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
@method or anyone , when changing the OTS maps on the AP due you use or need a battery tender . Or only recommended for actual AP installs and reinstalls .
also , when heading to dealer do you deinstall AP or just flash to factory map on AP.
The AP install takes about 7 minutes, switching maps about 2.
Heading to the dealer I would do a full deinstall ( so it does not get overwritten by the dealer if they do a flash update).
I havent used a battery tender, but I turn off the headlights and fans before starting and have a new battery.
Switching maps, I wouldnt worry, the main install is long enough to think about using a tender.
The AP install takes about 7 minutes, switching maps about 2.
Heading to the dealer I would do a full deinstall ( so it does get overwritten by the dealer if they do a flash update).
I havent used a battery tender, but I turn off the headlights and fans before starting and have a new battery.
Switching maps, I wouldnt worry, the main install is long enough to think about using a tender.
Exactly. The save, load, switch and install processes are very quick
I think when installing the AP will recopy the OEM maps (Map 0) to overwrite in any previous in case there was any update when they did most recent service.
Note that the numbers are ENGINE (i.e. crank) torque and horsepower, not wheel hp. Notice on the stock run, it says 450hp which is spot on with stock engine spec of 450hp. The torque is higher than rated at about 420tq on the dyno vs. rated 405tq. Wonder if this is due to 93oct vs 91oct?
Those Mustang dyno numbers are to the wheels, not crank.
I think it can do both. Buddy text me a couple pics from some dyno pulls on a Mustang. The little graph in the upper right shows wheel. Then the data outputs show wheel or engine power/torque. In the one that shows engine power of ~494hp, the little graph shows ~420whp. There's the button that says 'measure losses at end' which is likely how the dyno backs out engine/crank power. And of course, there's the button that says 'showing wheel values' or 'show engine values'.
I think it can do both. Buddy text me a couple pics from some dyno pulls on a Mustang. The little graph in the upper right shows wheel. Then the data outputs show wheel or engine power/torque. In the one that shows engine power of ~494hp, the little graph shows ~420whp. There's the button that says 'measure losses at end' which is likely how the dyno backs out engine/crank power. And of course, there's the button that says 'showing wheel values' or 'show engine values'.
Your friend is incorrect. Those charts are from a Dynapack dyno that measures power at the wheel hubs. A Mustang dyno chart is easily recognizable and it’s not what you posted - Mustangs always give readings at the wheels.
Are you confusing a Mustang dyno with dyno numbers from a Ford Mustang?
I thought the baseline numbers "at the wheels" looked very high, too. I mean, doesn't 450 wheel hp at stock mean the thing would be running circa 500 crank hp out of the factory? SOOOOO, I asked the owner of the shop (who did the Cobb install, the dyno set up and dyno runs himself)...."are those numbers wheel or crank"? He said wheel. I asked him no less than 3 more times. Same answer -- "at the wheel." I asked if that really could be and could the cars be that far underated out of the factory. He thought was exactly it. Look -- I am certainly no expert on the Mustang dyno (and many, many other topics), but Chris who owns Growler Motor Labs and the dyno is. I'll pester him on the question again on Tuesday, but I'd be really surprised if a 20+ year veteran who owns his own tuning/racing shop is failing to recognize the difference between crank and wheel hp.
The GTS is 450 at the crank measured with a MAHA dyno and a 12% correction factor.
Dynojets and mustang tend to measure in the 380 to 420 wheel range.
All of this is a correction factor game so just use the 450 to 500 increase as the meaningfull delta over stock.
Dont expect that your car stock was really 450 at the wheel unless it is a true freak
The GTS is 450 at the crank measured with a MAHA dyno and a 12% correction factor.
Dynojets and mustang tend to measure in the 380 to 420 wheel range.
All of this is a correction factor game so just use the 450 to 500 increase as the meaningfull delta over stock.
Dont expect that your car stock was really 450 at the wheel unless it is a true freak
EACTLY! Delta is all I care about, but every time any dyno goes up, this thread seems to go nuts!
I've seen a couple datalogs where the ECU started pulling 3-7 degrees of timing which of course has a significant affect on torque/power. Would be good to also datalog ambient air temps, intake manifold temps, oil temps, and coolant temps to see that conditions are as even as possible.
I think you also need to look at what the ECU is doing to the wastegate under full load as well as what the throttle blade angle is in relation to the throttle pedal position because on the forced induction cars the boost is limited that way more directly. When it knocks like crazy (which it seems to do all the time because it's turbo obviously) it will reduce the IGN timing for sure and make sure it's running as fat as requested but i see a more precise chopping of performance in the logs coming from throttle closures and wastegate actuation.
Originally Posted by ///M3THOD
Looking forward to seeing this! Make sure they are sport + for all the runs
I believe I have read that the filters will show a few more hp up top, but most people will do a filter anyway so you might as well.
I think that someone needs to do a dyno test of just the Sport Plus button alone because i think we will all be surprised. I was just trying to keep the peace but the reality is that once you're WOT, the pedal value is maxed and boost is what it is when you're on the dyno at wide open throttle. Sport Response under partial load closes the wastegate so it spools up quicker AND it gives you more throttle blade angle while you're only partially into the accelerator. Once you're WOT, it is what it is as far as pedal value and boost go!
Originally Posted by AlexZTuned
Those Mustang dyno numbers are to the wheels, not crank.
For reference, with a stock GTS, Cobb put down 423 rwhp and 409 rwtq. With their tune, they put down 506 rwhp and 488 rwtq.
Gains of 83 HP to the wheels and 79 TQ to the wheels with a tune only.
Adding bolt-one like bypass pipes/sport cats, headers, and filter, I think we’ll be seeing increases of over 100 HP to the wheels on stock GTS turbos.
I was privy to a lot of the Cobb testing so those numbers jive with what i was told. On a cold day i think that getting awfully close to 600 hp at the crank with this car is possible with all bolt-ons in place and that's my goal.
Originally Posted by ///M3THOD
Absolutely, no negatives, couldn't be happier. Like stock drivability with just massively more power.
I recently uninstalled the tune to bring it into the dealership and its borderline depressing driving the car around without the tune, its that noticeable.
I bought my car because I have a buddy with a 991.1 turbo that Ive always loved, he recently rode in the car and says it feels just as fast as his car. The turbos have more tq, but they also have 400lbs and AWD.
I can't reiterate enough how seamless the drivability is on the car with the flash. Normally a flash that produces those types of additional power and torque numbers cause the car to NOT drive like it was born that way but Cobb really knocked it out of the park with the smoothness; it's like buttah!
Originally Posted by arter
The GTS is 450 at the crank measured with a MAHA dyno and a 12% correction factor.
Dynojets and mustang tend to measure in the 380 to 420 wheel range.
All of this is a correction factor game so just use the 450 to 500 increase as the meaningfull delta over stock.
Dont expect that your car stock was really 450 at the wheel unless it is a true freak
Agreed...i use 12.5% for my Porsche drivetrain loss number and i dyno in 5th but with the ratios in the 7-speed ZF box you don't have a true 1:1 5th gear. If i recall correctly 4th is 1.18 and 5th is .94. Just out of curiousity, are you guys putting these cars in Rolling Dyno Mode with the PIWIS? or are you just going on AWD dynos and spinning both drums and backing into a crank HP figure? What is everyone running in? 4th gear or 5th gear?
Originally Posted by jplohg
EACTLY! Delta is all I care about, but every time any dyno goes up, this thread seems to go nuts!
I think that someone needs to do a dyno test of just the Sport Plus button alone because i think we will all be surprised. I was just trying to keep the peace but the reality is that once you're WOT, the pedal value is maxed and boost is what it is when you're on the dyno at wide open throttle. Sport Plus under partial load closes the wastegate so it spools up quicker AND it gives you more throttle blade angle while you're only partially into the accelerator. Once you're WOT, it is what it is as far as pedal value and boost go!
Haha! From my understanding in addition to closed wastegates, in stock trim the max boost target increases with the sport and sport + setting.
I think were seeing the throttle blade angle fluctuating slightly at WOT to attempt and control TQ and keep it below 520/530 from some data logs posted on ************.
Haha! From my understanding in addition to closed wastegates, in stock trim the max boost target increases with the sport and sport + setting.
I think were seeing the throttle blade angle fluctuating slightly at WOT to attempt and control TQ and keep it below 520/530 from some data logs posted on ************.
I found where i read that - per factory training manual, Sports Response at partial load revises the wastegate characteristics - either way, we could be wrong but according to the factory documentation and to speaking to the folks at Cobb, at WOT it's the same.
I found where i read that - per factory training manual, Sports Response at partial load revises the wastegate characteristics - either way, we could be wrong but according to the factory documentation and to speaking to the folks at Cobb, at WOT it's the same.
Nice info, thanks for posting. Is Sport + and Sport Response identical in function?
From what I have read, the throttle sensitivity is a little less jumpy when going from Sport to Sport + because it assumes Sport + will be for track usage and a more linear throttle response is preferred, whereas Sport is just for street peppiness.
Sport Response is for quick bursts of aggressive acceleration, like the passing scenario they describe.
Nice info, thanks for posting. Is Sport + and Sport Response identical in function?
From what I have read, the throttle sensitivity is a little less jumpy when going from Sport to Sport + because it assumes Sport + will be for track usage and a more linear throttle response is preferred, whereas Sport is just for street peppiness.
Sport Response is for quick bursts of aggressive acceleration, like the passing scenario they describe.
One of the things i love about the new car is how the PDK programming on the 991.2 has been improved. It's light years better than the 997.2 and still better than the 991.1 programming that not a lot of people liked. Every generation it has gotten better. Whereas before Sports Plus was too much for the street and something that could only be driven in manual mode, Sports Plus on this car doesnt do like it used to where it would hold the gear you're in all the way to redline and downshift on the street into a lower gear at 6K RPM. With this current generation software you can drive the car on the street in auto mode and if you crack the throttle slightly it will even upshift for you which would never happen in the previous car while in Sport Plus.
Your question about Sport vs. Sport Plus is interesting because i used to use Sport for the street and Sport Plus for the track because the throttle response in Sport was better but it was too aggressive on the street for Sport Plus. Now i'm hard pressed to notice a difference in the throttle response in a single gear in Sport vs Sport Plus but i could almost feel what you mentioned during the quick test drive it just did in 3rd gear between 2.5K and 3K RPM. The only way to truly know would be to log it with the Cobb and look at pedal position vs. throttle blade in both modes at a certain RPM with pedal position being the constant and then see how it ramps up.
They really did a nice job with the car with the trans programming this time around!
One of the things i love about the new car is how the PDK programming on the 991.2 has been improved. It's light years better than the 997.2 and still better than the 991.1 programming that not a lot of people liked. Every generation it has gotten better. Whereas before Sports Plus was too much for the street and something that could only be driven in manual mode, Sports Plus on this car doesnt do like it used to where it would hold the gear you're in all the way to redline and downshift on the street into a lower gear at 6K RPM. With this current generation software you can drive the car on the street in auto mode and if you crack the throttle slightly it will even upshift for you which would never happen in the previous car while in Sport Plus.
Your question about Sport vs. Sport Plus is interesting because i used to use Sport for the street and Sport Plus for the track because the throttle response in Sport was better but it was too aggressive on the street for Sport Plus. Now i'm hard pressed to notice a difference in the throttle response in a single gear in Sport vs Sport Plus but i could almost feel what you mentioned during the quick test drive it just did in 3rd gear between 2.5K and 3K RPM. The only way to truly know would be to log it with the Cobb and look at pedal position vs. throttle blade in both modes at a certain RPM with pedal position being the constant and then see how it ramps up.
They really did a nice job with the car with the trans programming this time around!
Agreed 100%
I couldn't be more pleased with how intuitive the PDK is with its responses
Haha! From my understanding in addition to closed wastegates, in stock trim the max boost target increases with the sport and sport + setting.
I think were seeing the throttle blade angle fluctuating slightly at WOT to attempt and control TQ and keep it below 520/530 from some data logs posted on ************.
I had posted the throttle blade stuff on ************ ( and on one thread here).
08-25-2018, 12:33 PM
