Dear Porsche,
06-18-2018, 01:00 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
Porsche created this mess themselves when they switched to a common and substantiallly similar platform for the Boxster and 911 starting with the 996.
The 944/968, 911, and 928 all had different engines, bodies, interiors, and were stand along models in their own right.
In order to reduce costs and “save” the brand from certain bankruptcy, the 996 brought us a 911 and the new at the time Boxster that shared a TON of parts.
This idea never really worked for me since I felt like the best parts in the bin were never “allowed” to be bolted to the mid engine platform.
If the Cayman/boxster had a ton less parts share with the 911. I don’t think I would have felt this way.
The 944/968, 911, and 928 all had different engines, bodies, interiors, and were stand along models in their own right.
In order to reduce costs and “save” the brand from certain bankruptcy, the 996 brought us a 911 and the new at the time Boxster that shared a TON of parts.
This idea never really worked for me since I felt like the best parts in the bin were never “allowed” to be bolted to the mid engine platform.
If the Cayman/boxster had a ton less parts share with the 911. I don’t think I would have felt this way.
06-18-2018, 03:46 AM
#33
i think Porsche needs to adjust their pricing strategy.
boxter and cayman are the more 'affordable' models compared to the 911, therefor they are also less powerful accross the range because you spend less $$ than a 911. the more you spend to more power you get so as you increase your $$ spending you move up from cayman to 911. This strategy doesn't really make sense as both formats are great cars with equal potential
some people like mid engine format some like rear. they should make boxter/cayman/911 all with same relative power ranges so one can enjoy their tickle to the max on which ever format they decide to go. they can do the pricing so that the more powerful cars are priced really high and the less powerful base models are priced on the lower end. I don't think porsche would cannibalize either format and you can still make affordable porsche lines with the base models
imagine if they made a GT-4 RS with rival power of a GT-3 RS or even a GT-2 RS. I would seriously like to see how a car like that would stack up.
boxter and cayman are the more 'affordable' models compared to the 911, therefor they are also less powerful accross the range because you spend less $$ than a 911. the more you spend to more power you get so as you increase your $$ spending you move up from cayman to 911. This strategy doesn't really make sense as both formats are great cars with equal potential
some people like mid engine format some like rear. they should make boxter/cayman/911 all with same relative power ranges so one can enjoy their tickle to the max on which ever format they decide to go. they can do the pricing so that the more powerful cars are priced really high and the less powerful base models are priced on the lower end. I don't think porsche would cannibalize either format and you can still make affordable porsche lines with the base models
imagine if they made a GT-4 RS with rival power of a GT-3 RS or even a GT-2 RS. I would seriously like to see how a car like that would stack up.
06-18-2018, 07:34 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
The problem is brand hierarchy. The 911 in all forms is the Porsche brand. It's where the ad $'s are spent and it's the brand heritage. It is what they market even while selling more SUV's.
When the did intro a powerful mid engine it was positioned as a super car limited production, Carrera GT.
I am on Pcar 13. Have owned a Boxster at 1 time and was amazed how it made me feel like a better driver and how amazing the handling characteristics were. I did always stay with the 911 though as I wanted the best the brand could make that I could afford.
Would I be interested in a new mid engine, properly powered P car, probably. Will we see one soon, I doubt it. But who knows. Porsche wants to remain relevant and profitable and if that is what it takes it could happen. But putting another platform out with comparable power and cost to the brand icon is not a decision they will make lightly. Competition and the market will be the only driving force.
Plus they have been inching the 911 engine position forward consistently through the last several generations.
When the did intro a powerful mid engine it was positioned as a super car limited production, Carrera GT.
I am on Pcar 13. Have owned a Boxster at 1 time and was amazed how it made me feel like a better driver and how amazing the handling characteristics were. I did always stay with the 911 though as I wanted the best the brand could make that I could afford.
Would I be interested in a new mid engine, properly powered P car, probably. Will we see one soon, I doubt it. But who knows. Porsche wants to remain relevant and profitable and if that is what it takes it could happen. But putting another platform out with comparable power and cost to the brand icon is not a decision they will make lightly. Competition and the market will be the only driving force.
Plus they have been inching the 911 engine position forward consistently through the last several generations.
06-18-2018, 08:33 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
Unfortunately Porsche has already figured out their way of fixing this mess. They put a 4cyl engine in the “718”. For diehards that want a go fast mid engined platform they will make the GT4 and Spyder and charge dearly for them. If you want a 6cyl car, open your wallet please and buy the 911.
The problem with all this is that boxster’s are not cheap cars. They missed the mark on the engine.
I counted over 20 718’s for sale at one local dealer.
The problem with all this is that boxster’s are not cheap cars. They missed the mark on the engine.
I counted over 20 718’s for sale at one local dealer.
06-18-2018, 09:16 AM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Since Ferrari was mentioned earlier lets take that dive. Ferrari's icon is the front engine V12 car. Just as Enzo intended. He resisted the notion of anything else, but saw the virtues of mid-engine design. They have allowed their mid-engine platforms to reach their full potential. Has Ferrari suffered because of it?
Hierarchy, prices structure, tradition, and strict adherence to 911 were once Porsche's downfall. Its not the 911 that saved the company. It was the Boxster. Well, the Boxster and Toyota's lean manufacturing methods.
Give us all a reason to love your cars more Porsche. Give us the mid-engine sports car we know you can build.
Hierarchy, prices structure, tradition, and strict adherence to 911 were once Porsche's downfall. Its not the 911 that saved the company. It was the Boxster. Well, the Boxster and Toyota's lean manufacturing methods.
Give us all a reason to love your cars more Porsche. Give us the mid-engine sports car we know you can build.
06-18-2018, 11:06 AM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Maybe I am just old school, but a mid engine Porsche is not a 911. At the same time, I have no objection to a fully developed 6-cylinder mid engine Cayman, or whatever else Porsche decides to call it. If the present Cayman design cannot accommodate a 6 cylinder turbo engine, design a replacement that can, but maintain the 911 for those of us who prefer the traditional configuration.
06-18-2018, 11:17 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Porsche lost their way with the Boxster. Here is my logic.
The Boxster was created to be a sub 40K sports car at a time when the 911 cabriolet was close to 73K. It was designed to increase car production numbers, get people into the brand, into the showroom, and move metal. It also allowed substantially shared components with the 996 to be made in much larger numbers. The idea worked perfectly! People with 911's bought boxster's as "fun" cars. It was a fresh replacement for the excellent but tired 968 and cheaper to boot. At the time, you could go buy a new M3 for 40 to 45K as a point of reference. Also for around 40K you could buy a 325i convertible.
The S came along 4 years later. Even then it was a 48K car up against a $75K MSRP for the 911 cab.
4 years ago. I spent $72K on a nicely optioned but not crazy 981 CS spec. Still pretty reasonable considering most 911's were 90K plus at the time.
So here we are today. The least expensive base boxster I have seen on a showroom floor was $75K. Most cars I have seen were 80K to 100K and varied from loaded base to loaded GTS trims sitting next to equally priced base 911's. The dealers are over run with cars.
A new M2 with 6 cyl engine is $55K nicely equipped. A 2 series convertible is 45-55K.
Personally I think the base car has gotten too expensive especially given the way the cars get optioned.
The Boxster was created to be a sub 40K sports car at a time when the 911 cabriolet was close to 73K. It was designed to increase car production numbers, get people into the brand, into the showroom, and move metal. It also allowed substantially shared components with the 996 to be made in much larger numbers. The idea worked perfectly! People with 911's bought boxster's as "fun" cars. It was a fresh replacement for the excellent but tired 968 and cheaper to boot. At the time, you could go buy a new M3 for 40 to 45K as a point of reference. Also for around 40K you could buy a 325i convertible.
The S came along 4 years later. Even then it was a 48K car up against a $75K MSRP for the 911 cab.
4 years ago. I spent $72K on a nicely optioned but not crazy 981 CS spec. Still pretty reasonable considering most 911's were 90K plus at the time.
So here we are today. The least expensive base boxster I have seen on a showroom floor was $75K. Most cars I have seen were 80K to 100K and varied from loaded base to loaded GTS trims sitting next to equally priced base 911's. The dealers are over run with cars.
A new M2 with 6 cyl engine is $55K nicely equipped. A 2 series convertible is 45-55K.
Personally I think the base car has gotten too expensive especially given the way the cars get optioned.
06-18-2018, 03:11 PM
#40
Options are not mandatory. My 2017 911S has only one extra cost option, a glass sunroof and a MSRP of 106K. Anyone willing to wait a few months can special order a stripped base Boxster with a MSRP of 61k or a stripped Boxster S for 72K. If I decide not to purchase a 911 next time around, I may special order a stripped Boxster S.
06-18-2018, 03:27 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Options are not mandatory. My 2017 911S has only one extra cost option, a glass sunroof and a MSRP of 106K. Anyone willing to wait a few months can special order a stripped base Boxster with a MSRP of 61k or a stripped Boxster S for 72K. If I decide not to purchase a 911 next time around, I may special order a stripped Boxster S.
06-18-2018, 04:07 PM
#42
Sorry but in today's Porsche world, options are absolutely mandatory. Stripped cars are not very desirable nor the full intended experience. They serve as an excuse for the MSRP/price to appear lower and that's it. Being able to customize a car with options lets you choose not only what you want, but also what you don't. Porsche doesn't force you to pay for things that you'd think should be standard (you want), but rather its how they keep costs down, profits up. A highly optioned car is 20-30k more than base MSRP and a better representation of the real cost to get the intended car. They give you the choice to be cheap and get cheap.
Honestly there is no bargain hunting when buying a new Porsche, especially ordering a custom build. Best off getting a used/CPO car if you want a deal because those options aren't worth much after the first year.
Honestly there is no bargain hunting when buying a new Porsche, especially ordering a custom build. Best off getting a used/CPO car if you want a deal because those options aren't worth much after the first year.
06-18-2018, 05:05 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
ClassJ may be on to something. Boxster and Cayman pricing has become something confusing.
Some of you may remember that the Cayman was originally supposed to be a model that filled the void between the Boxster and 911. Cayman was more expensive than the Boxster until the 718 models were released and that magically changed. Are they now equals in the model range?
Do $100,000 dollar entry level four cylinder models make sense?
I don't think Porsche is even sure.
Some of you may remember that the Cayman was originally supposed to be a model that filled the void between the Boxster and 911. Cayman was more expensive than the Boxster until the 718 models were released and that magically changed. Are they now equals in the model range?
Do $100,000 dollar entry level four cylinder models make sense?
I don't think Porsche is even sure.