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No, I was not joking. I don't see the value that you are going to obtain in the long run. If your engine starts making metal - what are going to do? Probably nothing. If you detect oil blow by, what are going to do - probably nothing. You might order up another test to make sure the oil was not contaminated. Should the results reappear then a compression test and a scoping. On the other hand, when an aircraft engine starts making metal - you will do something because your life and more importantly your pax's lives are on the line. I am not saying the knowledge you will obtain is not helpful, I just don't see a cost / benefit. Blackstone is a great lab and and great service, however I think that auto oil engine analysis is a bit over the top. Just my opinion.
how do you know what I will or will not do about it? You don’t. Which makes your whole analysis About the oil analysis being useless based on your assumption that I will not do anything completely useless in and of itself. I think we all understand that you have an airplane. Congratulations, I think. This is not a competition between the necessity of oil analysis for cars and airplanes. But whether I decide to do anything about any findings in an oil analysis irrelevant as to my curiosity regarding wanting to know about the analysis myself.
I thought tracking the car can cause problems with warranty in the first place. Maybe im misreading the warranty literature.
some dealers care, and some dealers do not care. I am on Honest with my dealer about tracking the car not because I care so much about the warranty, but to be candid with them for diagnosing any issues or foe requested recommendations. My dealer and the motor sport division goes out of the way to make sure everything is in tiptop shape. I don’t mind paying an added fee for that.
So OP started the thread to share a Blackstone report for those interested in such things. I appreciate this, it is good info for those of us interested in these. Why anyone feels compelled to s**t on his thread when he wasn't asking whether his test was worth taking or not has me once again wondering where good manners have gone.
I would say the bigger laugh would could from someone paying $35k+ for a new engine when a cheap $25 test could have detected the problem before the warranty ran out. Once the test shows a potential problem, a follow-up with a scope or whatever further diagnostic measure would be done would certainly be a prudent step.
correct. And thank you. I try to consider myself like a sponge, trying to learn as much as I can, especially since I started tracking my car. If it was not for LexVan posting his Blackstone oil analysis results, I may not have considered switching to 5W-50 mobil1. I found his thread helpful which is why I decided to post these results on an engine that has been running only 0W-40, including 12 track days, up to now.
my car is still under warranty. If the results showed something off, I would to take the car into the dealer Show the results and ask them to look into it. Even if I have to pay for a compression test myself. I can guarantee you that no one at my dealer or its motor sports division would laugh. I get great service, but, admittedly, I do you tip them generously great service that I receive because they go out of their way to minimize any inconvenience I have.
off-topic: at 1 PM on a Friday afternoon as I was on my way to Sebring for track weekend, I got a coolant warning light. I arrived at the dealer at 1:30 PM. They were unable to diagnose immediately whether it was a valve, thermostat, or water pump however, they finally diagnosed a faulty water on the spot. They took a mechanic working on a different car and asked him to look at my car immediately because they knew I was scheduled to leave for Sebring that afternoon. They also knew that I had already paid the entrance fees and wrapped my car with my law firm logo on it. I was extremely understanding and told my service advisor and the Mechanic that I would completely understand if I needed to miss the weekend at Sebring. Seriously, if the worst that happens is that I cannot track my 911 at Sebring for one weekend, I’m doing OK in life. That took them by surprise and the mechanic insisted on staying late (until 6:45 PM or so) to finish the job and bleed the cooling system so that I would not miss weekend tracking the car. He even gave me extra coolant to top it off after the engine cools down. So no, I don’t think my dealer would laugh at me if I showed them an oil analysis result and asked them to look into it.
So OP started the thread to share a Blackstone report for those interested in such things. I appreciate this, it is good info for those of us interested in these. Why anyone feels compelled to s**t on his thread when he wasn't asking whether his test was worth taking or not has me once again wondering where good manners have gone.
I would say the bigger laugh would could from someone paying $35k+ for a new engine when a cheap $25 test could have detected the problem before the warranty ran out. Once the test shows a potential problem, a follow-up with a scope or whatever further diagnostic measure would be done would certainly be a prudent step.
You are right and I apologize to the OP for contributing negatively.
However, now you have my full attention and I'm genuinely interested in learning about a real life scenario where someone had their engine replaced under Porsche factory warranty based on nothing more than an unfavorable oil analysis.
You are right and I apologize to the OP for contributing negatively.
However, now you have my full attention and I'm genuinely interested in learning about a real life scenario where someone had their engine replaced under Porsche factory warranty based on nothing more than an unfavorable oil analysis.
To the extent that even happened, I’m sure it’s not based solely on an unfavorable oil analysis.
You are right and I apologize to the OP for contributing negatively.
However, now you have my full attention and I'm genuinely interested in learning about a real life scenario where someone had their engine replaced under Porsche factory warranty based on nothing more than an unfavorable oil analysis.
I saw more discussions about Blackstone back in my 997 days. BTW, no one other than you ever said anything about replacing an engine based solely on an oil report... that would be silly. But here is one example of someone benefitting:
"Well, I learned something from the 1st (and only) oil analysis I had done this with my then new 2002 Boxster with about 4K miles on it.
The analysis report came back with a very high (~7% IIRC) water content. I had been avoiding short trips and was surprised by this.
I changed the oil promptly and then I began monitoring engine coolant temperature with an OBD2 code reader/data viewer/logger and found out just how cold blooded my Boxster engine was. The reason for the build up of water in the oil then become clear. The engine and oil was just not getting that hot in winter driving. Surprisingly the coolant stayed pretty cool on the highway even though I regularly made 60 mile and at 70mph speed trips with the car sometimes as often as once a week. Only in around town driving did it get warm but never hot even then. At least not in the winter." https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post13760845
Here is another:
"Mine was showing viscosity breakdown (shearing) from my driving style, engine age, and oil choice. It convinced me to switch to Porsche A40 approve 5W50. No more shearing out of grade since the switch. Plus my engine pressures are much better when the oil is hot.
I also had a minor tick up in wear metals ultimately traced back to a failing tandem oil pump. The interesting thing was the wear metals dropped at the next oil change but copper particles spiked. Now they are back to normal, below normal even." https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post13762995
And another:
"This last oil change was my 36,000 mile major service, and all the plugs were changed. #6 was wet. Since the plugs were all out, they borescoped all cylinders and found the scoring at the top of #6. Blackstone flagged the increased oil consumption and noted an ever-so-slight uptick in Aluminum, which I doubt would have concerned them unless they knew about the oil consumption. Basically, the oil analysis was still completely in bounds." https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post13384516
I'm also aware that in the M3 community Blackstone reports have been widely used to provide early detection of rod bearing failures, allowing owners to replace the defective bearings at a reasonable cost well before catastrophic failure occurs.
Mind you that no one is saying you should get these reports done yourself. Like OP, I'm a data guy just by my nature and my profession. I consider the Blackstone reports quality information. As I pointed out earlier it allowed me to determine that my 0W-40 was failing to maintain its viscosity after less than 5000 miles... prompting me to change to 5w-50 and to keep doing more frequent changes.
^calcium is part of your additive package. It's a good thing. Same for the zinc and phosphorus, as they aide in friction modification. Go to the Blackstone site and read up. Also go to the BobTheOilGuy web site and read there.
^calcium is part of your additive package. It's a good thing. Same for the zinc and phosphorus, as they aide in friction modification. Go to the Blackstone site and read up. Also go to the BobTheOilGuy web site and read there.
That looks like a great report! Here is one that Blackstone just sent out in their newsletter that folks may find interesting. You have to wonder if this guy wishes he had followed up on the report results prior to the engine blowing.
how do you know what I will or will not do about it? You don’t. Which makes your whole analysis About the oil analysis being useless based on your assumption that I will not do anything completely useless in and of itself. I think we all understand that you have an airplane. Congratulations, I think. This is not a competition between the necessity of oil analysis for cars and airplanes. But whether I decide to do anything about any findings in an oil analysis irrelevant as to my curiosity regarding wanting to know about the analysis myself.
I agree with 991carreradriver. I've done oil analysis on every airplane I've owned because it's a matter of life and death, and I do it on my E46 M3 with 165,000 miles on it to check on rod bearing wear (common on the S54 engines). If the M3 oil analysis shows bearing wear it costs me $600 and a day to change out the rod bearings versus waiting for a rod bearing to completely fail and spend $5,000 and a week to swap out the engine. But there's no $600 repair on a 991, and I would never spend upwards of 10k simply because of an oil analysis.
I agree with 991carreradriver. I've done oil analysis on every airplane I've owned because it's a matter of life and death, and I do it on my E46 M3 with 165,000 miles on it to check on rod bearing wear (common on the S54 engines). If the M3 oil analysis shows bearing wear it costs me $600 and a day to change out the rod bearings versus waiting for a rod bearing to completely fail and spend $5,000 and a week to swap out the engine. But there's no $600 repair on a 991, and I would never spend upwards of 10k simply because of an oil analysis.
But it's a personal choice.
You agree with 991carreradriver that an oil analysis is pointless (he indicated that he does not understand the value of doing this for a car engine), but you do it on your e46 M3? I never said I would spend upwards of $10k on work simply because of an oil analysis and 991carreradriver thinks that I would, probably, do nothing if I received a report that indicates that there are high levels of metal. His whole point (and your agreement with his point) is an absurd assumption based upon what you and he believe I would do if I receive a report that indicates that there are high levels of metal. If I receive an oil analysis that indicates that there are high levels of metal or that something else is wrong, I'll investigate which may or may not include compression tests, etc. What I find amusing is the assumption that an oil analysis is useless because someone thinks that I, personally, would do nothing about it. The question as to whether you do an oil analysis on your airplane engine because it's a matter of "life or death" is not relevant. You do an oil analysis on an engine in an effort to investigate whether it is wearing and running properly. Of course, it may be more important for an airplane, but that does not take away from the fact that oil analysis is helpful and doing it for a car is helpful. Maybe I need an airplane to make sense of this.
That looks like a great report! Here is one that Blackstone just sent out in their newsletter that folks may find interesting. You have to wonder if this guy wishes he had followed up on the report results prior to the engine blowing.
Considering I have been driving it pretty hard lately on the track, I'm a lot less concerned. That report you posted is crazy. I couldn't imagine ignoring a bad report and ignoring the perfect excuse to install a naturally aspirated powerkit engine. I think BBI Autosport here in Florida started doing that in base Carreras. They posted on here about that not too long ago and I kept it in the back of my head, just in case...
You agree with 991carreradriver that an oil analysis is pointless (he indicated that he does not understand the value of doing this for a car engine), but you do it on your e46 M3? I never said I would spend upwards of $10k on work simply because of an oil analysis and 991carreradriver thinks that I would, probably, do nothing if I received a report that indicates that there are high levels of metal. His whole point (and your agreement with his point) is an absurd assumption based upon what you and he believe I would do if I receive a report that indicates that there are high levels of metal. If I receive an oil analysis that indicates that there are high levels of metal or that something else is wrong, I'll investigate which may or may not include compression tests, etc. What I find amusing is the assumption that an oil analysis is useless because someone thinks that I, personally, would do nothing about it. The question as to whether you do an oil analysis on your airplane engine because it's a matter of "life or death" is not relevant. You do an oil analysis on an engine in an effort to investigate whether it is wearing and running properly. Of course, it may be more important for an airplane, but that does not take away from the fact that oil analysis is helpful and doing it for a car is helpful. Maybe I need an airplane to make sense of this.
Try reading my post again, a little slower this time. I do an oil analysis on my M3 because: (1) it's an engine with 165k that is closer to the end of its life than the beginning (I.e., a rebuild or an engine
swap is likely due anyway), and (2) $600 is not a huge expense to prevent what is a common issue that oil analysis can predict with near certainty. I do an oil analysis on my airplane because when an airplane loses an engine in the middle of the night the likely result is death. In a car you simply pull over and call a tow truck.
The purpose of an oil analysis is to predict engine failure, but predicting engine failure is only beneficial if the preventive measures taken: (1) save money compared to waiting until the failure occurs (M3 scenario), or (2) reduce the risk of death or injury (airplane scenario). Neither of those applies to a nearly new 911.
If you think an oil analysis is worth it, knock yourself out. I did not "assume" you would do nothing about it; I said it's a personal choice. 991carreradriver and I are just offering our perspectives for people to consider, which is that there is no benefit from an oil analysis unless you are prepared to address the negative results.
Originally Posted by StormRune
That looks like a great report! Here is one that Blackstone just sent out in their newsletter that folks may find interesting. You have to wonder if this guy wishes he had followed up on the report results prior to the engine blowing.
This is where oil analysis helps. The IMS bearing is a known issue, and an oil analysis can identify when the bearing begins to go bad. If the owner had replaced the IMS bearing after the negative oil analysis he or she would have saved a ton of money (replacing the bearing is cheaper than overhauling the entire engine).
04-07-2018, 05:08 PM
