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Theres nothing wrong with well designed log manifolds (and the Porsche ones are well designed) they are very durable and doubled skinned for heat management. They are clearly not restrictive e.g. 100HP gain on the GTS with tune only.
For all of you running a Cobb tune that track your 991.2, have you also added the third radiator? I have Cobb and soul Sport cats being added next week to my .2 GTS (along with girodisc, Pagid/Ferodo combo, set and r comp tires), but not sure I need to spend the $ on the extra radiator. I track in Texas, so it can be hot at times, but never experienced high temps on my NA or TT 911s in same environment. Not planning on upgrading the intercoolers. Just want to make sure I’m not taking unnecessary risk without the extra oil cooler?
In my opinion, unless your oil stays below 240F and your coolant at 190F-200F, you can always use more cooling. Keeping your coolant and oil at optimum temps should also help with making more power and increase long-term durability. In my track S2000, coolant never goes above the thermostat setting of 190F and the oil peaked at 240F when it was 103F ambient temps. The S2k engine uses oil piston squirters, so cooler oil = cooler pistons = more power.
They make these nearby. Can't say enough nice things about the owner.
I took these about a month ago. The Porsche "Log Manifolds" (a bean counter win) are really a shame on a car costing as much as it does. And the VEKTOR pieces work, out of the box.
Good for you - I would strongly suggest you read the threads showing the torque and 100 HP gains across the rev range for the GTS - this would not be possible if the headers were overly restrictive. Secondly, the heat management and durability advantages of log headers are important in the overall performance equation.
With all respect to the motoiq article, I put zero credibility in their results. We have no idea if they are being paid, if they have any relationship with vector, etc.
If the headers genuinely improve HP I would switch in a heartbeat. I am once again waiting for BGB to do their before and after dyno tests and if John shows real HP gains I will be buying these.
Until such time as an impartial and independent test is done, I have no reason to buy the Vector Headers, or any other headers.
The shop that built these has some experience. The test wasn't paid for. In fact Chris sent these with the intention of getting an impartial judgement. He has an incredible Dyno facility in house and knew what he had built before sending them out. Unlike other brands who "claim" to make power out of the box, these do!
Read the Subaru test in the NASIOC article.
Then I guess the results should be the same when John at BGB does the test.
That wasnt the case with the IPD plenum that they recently tested, so I am not a believer in complete strangers doing testing on advertisers products.
But Vektor offers this for heat management. : ) As I will continue all the way to stage 3 and possibly stage 4, I will benefit from these.
I have had a relationship with Cargraphic for almost 10 years and given that they give me parts to test, my plan is to wait for their manifolds when they are ready. I reached out to the company above that seems to have some rather solid support on my this thread and they weren't interested in a discounted price for testing a set of the manifolds so I am going to stick with my original plan to test the Cargraphic bits. Swaintech is the only people i let coat my manifolds so that's where they will go when the time comes. We probably had them do 20 sets over the last few years.
Originally Posted by PTS-BRG
Then I guess the results should be the same when John at BGB does the test.
That wasnt the case with the IPD plenum that they recently tested, so I am not a believer in complete strangers doing testing on advertisers products.
I'm still pretty gun shy over the beating i took on another forum over the IPD test. Sometimes folks can be brutal! I guess championships and years of making the strongest NA motor swaps on the planet don't count for much in the turbo tuning world. If only i had hit the Sport Button and brought my desk fan!
I'm still pretty gun shy over the beating i took on this forum over the IPD test. Sometimes folks can be brutal! I guess championships and years of making the strongest NA motor swaps on the planet don't count for much in the turbo tuning world. If only i had hit the Sport Button and brought my desk fan!
Good for you - I would strongly suggest you read the threads showing the torque and 100 HP gains across the rev range for the GTS - this would not be possible if the headers were overly restrictive. Secondly, the heat management and durability advantages of log headers are important in the overall performance equation.
Note I did not say 'overly' restrictive. But they are certainly restrictive compared to a proper set of headers. Let me ask you this, do you think the stock cats are not restrictive compared to high flow cats and test pipes? After all, a COBB tune showed torque and 100hp gains across the rev range for the GTS with the stock cats. So do you therefore feel there's no performance benefit to HFCs and test pipes?
With all respect to the motoiq article, I put zero credibility in their results. We have no idea if they are being paid, if they have any relationship with vector, etc.
If the headers genuinely improve HP I would switch in a heartbeat. I am once again waiting for BGB to do their before and after dyno tests and if John shows real HP gains I will be buying these.
Until such time as an impartial and independent test is done, I have no reason to buy the Vector Headers, or any other headers.
My 2 cents
Well, you could always call World Motorsport and talk to Craig as that's where the car was dyno'd. If you check out the Vektor Performance thread, they posted a dyno from a customer if you need another point of reference. If you go to Porscehboost, they have a dyno plot from testing Vektor did themselves a year ago. So you have three points of reference. Aside from that, ask any engineer who studied fluid dynamics if a proper set of headers will make more power than the stock ones, and they will say yes just by looking at them. The stock Porsche ones are that lame.
groundhog, headers and a tune are two VERY different means for power enhancement. We could make the same argument for many other components. Heck for cheap money you could buy a Nitros Express setup and make +100hp without changing a thing as well. Larger turbos on stock manifolds, same thing. Does that make it better, more worthwhile, effect the longevity of the engine, etc.? A well-designed header improves the VE of the engine (air pump) period. It does not in itself 'make more power' but only makes the engine more efficient at making power. This is super easy to prove, by running a wee bit less boost and making the same exact power values as stock. The stock log style manifold on the 991.2 is an exercise in maximizing manufacturing productivity. It's a common form factor on MANY vehicles nowadays due to the cost effectiveness and thermal management combination. Fortunately, for companies like us, it leaves a whole bunch of headroom for improvement. The 'best' manifold or header on a turbocharged car will always carry the maximum energy (pressure, sound, heat...) from port to turbine wheel, period. You can argue thermal differences, but a smooth flowing tube with small surface area, will always absorb less heat than a non-optimized shape. Add a thermal coating and it's even more improved. The trend in manifold design to use double wall stamped and robotically MIG welded halves saves a bunch of part numbers and manufacturing steps vs the older designs that used bolt-on heat shields. Not only that stamped components are magnitudes less expensive to manufacture vs castings, tubes, sips, etc... OEMs are moving to using more stampings in exhaust systems and the trend will continue, as the technologies and cost benefits make more sense than ever before.
BGB, we get requests a-l-l t-h-e t-i-m-e for discounts, sponsorships, and free stuff. Even stickers, lol. ‘I have a 2018 brand spanking new Carrera GTS with only 100 miles’, ‘I have XX,XXX Instagram followers’, ‘I will do an install vid in my garage’, ‘I’m a forum Rockstar and people buy products I recommend’, ‘I have the fastest ½ mile 991.2’, “I will install and dyno your headers and show gains’, ‘I am the fastest street racer in all of wherever’, etc., etc., etc. These are the ‘requests’ for sponsorship I get on a very regular basis. It’s impressive sometimes how loving the car you have and what you do with it makes some feel entitled to discounts. Real Sponsorships come with real proposals. It’s supposed to be a symbiotic relationship, and when done right, works well over the long term. I don’t believe we received such information or proposal from you, but if I am mistaken please PM, e-mail, smoke signal, and I will gladly revisit the correspondence. I am certainly not opposed if the conditions are right.
Regarding the who’s who in 991.2 headers out there, we are certainly new to this specific game, but not to manifold design. I came to this very specific place because I felt there was a hole to fill for a higher end performance optimized product with a craftsmanship level of fabrication and material quality to back a lifetime warranty. Design wise I don’t see any product out there utilizing the advantageous features we do to assure a performance optimized design, but as time passes I’m sure we’ll see more come to market. We do have three independent plots so far, as well as our own. We did not measure the highest gains, and I am not a fan of promoting and marketing our products based on OUR results as I feel the data can never not be compromised, and carries more validity coming from another source. Then again, 20 plots and reviews later and I’m sure there will still be some skeptics. I truly love market competition and intend to keep our headers at the top of the performance list for people chasing those checkboxes. For those that have other checkboxes, we will always offer products designed and made in the USA, with US Certified materials and processes, fabricated by craftsmen who have a drive for perfection as much as I do, and a lifetime warranty. If you care to see some
development pics, feel free to check out the link below.
BGB, we get requests a-l-l t-h-e t-i-m-e for discounts, sponsorships, and free stuff. Even stickers, lol. ‘I have a 2018 brand spanking new Carrera GTS with only 100 miles’, ‘I have XX,XXX Instagram followers’, ‘I will do an install vid in my garage’, ‘I’m a forum Rockstar and people buy products I recommend’, ‘I have the fastest ½ mile 991.2’, “I will install and dyno your headers and show gains’, ‘I am the fastest street racer in all of wherever’, etc., etc., etc. These are the ‘requests’ for sponsorship I get on a very regular basis. It’s impressive sometimes how loving the car you have and what you do with it makes some feel entitled to discounts. Real Sponsorships come with real proposals. It’s supposed to be a symbiotic relationship, and when done right, works well over the long term. I don’t believe we received such information or proposal from you, but if I am mistaken please PM, e-mail, smoke signal, and I will gladly revisit the correspondence. I am certainly not opposed if the conditions are right.
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I appreciate your chiming in and i understand all too well how often people ask for discounted or free stuff with promises to market the materials that never come to fruition. I only mentioned it because someone from your business approached me about testing the parts, dyno testing and writing a review and i followed back up with the person and then asked one of my employees to follow up again. I'm not complaining, i'm not upset; we couldn't work out a deal that was amenable to both of us because i was hoping for a slightly better discount than a wholesale shop price in exchange for installing them, dynoing the car, doing the review, posting the information and then returning them. As i said, i've had a long relationship with another vendor so i choose to stay put where i am for now. Your products are gorgeous and i wish you nothing but the best in marketing and selling them.
08-16-2018, 02:28 AM
The test wasn't paid for. In fact Chris sent these with the intention of getting an impartial judgement. He has an incredible Dyno facility in house and knew what he had built before sending them out. Unlike other brands who "claim" to make power out of the box, these do!
