991.2 Base/S/GTS Modification & Race Track Prep Thread
04-03-2018, 05:48 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Thank you for the nice summary of your experience at Homestead.
I had Dundon align my front to about -1.3 front and rears were ok from factory at -2.0.
I have stuck pzeros so I aim for 33 hot front and 36 hot rears. Lots of letting air out in early sessions. And our ambient temps still in 50s.
Depending on smoothness of the track try a few laps next time out with pdcc sport chassis to see if u like it or not.
I had Dundon align my front to about -1.3 front and rears were ok from factory at -2.0.
I have stuck pzeros so I aim for 33 hot front and 36 hot rears. Lots of letting air out in early sessions. And our ambient temps still in 50s.
Depending on smoothness of the track try a few laps next time out with pdcc sport chassis to see if u like it or not.
04-06-2018, 12:57 PM
#34
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Without turning this into a PDK vs 7-speed debate, i found the perfect car for my needs BUT i only plan to keep it for about 3 months. I was going to do the power mods and maybe some very minimal track prep in the form of additional camber, brake lines and pads. Do you think it will hurt me trying to do this with a 7-spd vs. a PDK? I have been asking around and the consensus seems to be that the track focused people might want PDK BUT anyone buying the car for a weekend cruiser wouldn't mind a 7-spd.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
04-06-2018, 03:29 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Without turning this into a PDK vs 7-speed debate, i found the perfect car for my needs BUT i only plan to keep it for about 3 months. I was going to do the power mods and maybe some very minimal track prep in the form of additional camber, brake lines and pads. Do you think it will hurt me trying to do this with a 7-spd vs. a PDK? I have been asking around and the consensus seems to be that the track focused people might want PDK BUT anyone buying the car for a weekend cruiser wouldn't mind a 7-spd.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Track use PDK over 7 speed for ultimate lap time as it shifts so fast Turbo stays in boost. No $$$ shift issues either.
Fun driving 7 speed is the way to go.
I have a 718 CGTS on order for Sept build and have is optioned as PDK car right now. Use would be mostly track and 1Lap. But I am still conflicted as this old man still loves the whole heel and toe thing way to much.
Either way you go I don't think it will make much difference.
OT but might be seeing you if the CGTS runs hot in FL for a center radiator install.
Peter
04-06-2018, 04:24 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
John
Track use PDK over 7 speed for ultimate lap time as it shifts so fast Turbo stays in boost. No $$$ shift issues either.
Fun driving 7 speed is the way to go.
I have a 718 CGTS on order for Sept build and have it optioned as PDK car right now. Use would be mostly track and 1Lap. But I am still conflicted as this old man still loves the whole heel and toe thing way to much.
Either way you go I don't think it will make much difference.
OT but might be seeing you if the CGTS runs hot in FL for a center radiator install.
Peter
Nooooooooo. Just spent time back to back in 718 with 6MT and 7PDK, and while I can see getting PDK in a 981 or 991 for a variety of reasons (as you noted above), I would never option PDK in a 718 for a reason that surprised me: the flat four's sound when controlled by an automatic transmission.
Where the 991 and 981 flat six never sounds bad, the flat four's brash noise grated on me whenever PDK kicked down a gear or three on the freeway—which was often. And then the engine does a aaaaaaOOOOOOOO, aaaaaOOOOOO, aaaaaOOOOOO in the best of GM's "Sound of Power" tradition. Instead of sounding brash, it sounded cheap and was intrusive. Somehow, its noise wasn't an issue with the stick, because you're in charge of the gear choices and consciously or subconsciously know what's coming when you put your foot down. I can't remember an engine in a Porsche bothering me more on kick down than the flat four. I hated the 718 Cayman loaner I had, while I found myself REALLY liking a nearly identical 718 Cayman with a stick and a few sporting options (PSE, 4WSS+, GT wheel, 19s).
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04-06-2018, 07:16 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Nooooooooo. Just spent time back to back in 718 with 6MT and 7PDK, and while I can see getting PDK in a 981 or 991 for a variety of reasons (as you noted above), I would never option PDK in a 718 for a reason that surprised me: the flat four's sound when controlled by an automatic transmission.
Where the 991 and 981 flat six never sounds bad, the flat four's brash noise grated on me whenever PDK kicked down a gear or three on the freeway—which was often. And then the engine does a aaaaaaOOOOOOOO, aaaaaOOOOOO, aaaaaOOOOOO in the best of GM's "Sound of Power" tradition. Instead of sounding brash, it sounded cheap and was intrusive. Somehow, its noise wasn't an issue with the stick, because you're in charge of the gear choices and consciously or subconsciously know what's coming when you put your foot down. I can't remember an engine in a Porsche bothering me more on kick down than the flat four. I hated the 718 Cayman loaner I had, while I found myself REALLY liking a nearly identical 718 Cayman with a stick and a few sporting options (PSE, 4WSS+, GT wheel, 19s).
Where the 991 and 981 flat six never sounds bad, the flat four's brash noise grated on me whenever PDK kicked down a gear or three on the freeway—which was often. And then the engine does a aaaaaaOOOOOOOO, aaaaaOOOOOO, aaaaaOOOOOO in the best of GM's "Sound of Power" tradition. Instead of sounding brash, it sounded cheap and was intrusive. Somehow, its noise wasn't an issue with the stick, because you're in charge of the gear choices and consciously or subconsciously know what's coming when you put your foot down. I can't remember an engine in a Porsche bothering me more on kick down than the flat four. I hated the 718 Cayman loaner I had, while I found myself REALLY liking a nearly identical 718 Cayman with a stick and a few sporting options (PSE, 4WSS+, GT wheel, 19s).
Peter
04-06-2018, 07:52 PM
#38
I'm just curious about how the car holds up in the heat on track and then i was more curious about lap times with the added torque. I keep hearing from 991.1 GT3 owners that have made the switch and are not feeling a lack of power whatsoever. I've heard amazing feedback from my tuning partner working with the S & GTS cars running 91 octane and making over 500 HP & LB/FT with the GTS so I'm starting to look for a used S for development work. i want to retrofit the Power Kit and refine the tune for higher octane gas and do just intake and exhaust bolt-on upgrades and see how close we can get to 600hp from a car that's still very much comfortable enough to be a daily driver.
I'm embracing the turbo revolution...I've always been an NA guy and everything we do is NA but times are changing and i was just curious about die hard Porsche NA track car enthusiasts who have made the switch. We went to COTA last month and i saw a tone of GT3s, Turbos, etc and only one 718 and one 991.2.
I'm embracing the turbo revolution...I've always been an NA guy and everything we do is NA but times are changing and i was just curious about die hard Porsche NA track car enthusiasts who have made the switch. We went to COTA last month and i saw a tone of GT3s, Turbos, etc and only one 718 and one 991.2.
And you know what? It's incredible and says a lot to me that I took delivery of my GT3 and the two things I thought of was 1) this car is absolutely wicked and I really love this machine and 2) Porsche might know what they are doing as the turbo engines really are that good. Pete Stout who has a lot of seat time behind incredible 911s says that the 3.0 motor in the .2's is a masterpiece and I agree with him. It's not the same as the 4.0L in my GT3 but different does not mean suboptimal or second class. I was expecting my impressions of the GT3 to just about render my .2 C4 useless like a fart in a hurricane, but instead it was almost the opposite that I had a greater appreciation for the turbo 3.0L. I was expecting a David vs Goliath type of feeling but to me it's more like the GT3 is 10 out of 10 for ferocity across the rev range and the C4 is 9/10 in a shorter rev range of 2000-6500 under WOT with immense shove from the turbo versus very rapid linear delivery. I don't know what that means for tracking per se, but just wanted to chime in that I really appreciate the 3.0L motor for how fun it is. That's the best way I can sum it up is that the the GT3 feels just angry and wanting to be revved high all the time (which I appreciate and also love), whereas the 3.0L feels like a Jeckle and Hyde thing. Jeckle during daily driving and slow revs so you don't trigger a lot of boost, it's smooth and powerful, and Hyde during WOT with the boost shoving you from the behind quickly and a lot of fun. Also, at least for highway speeds at cruising gear (7th), the power comes on faster in the turbo 3.0L than it does in the 4.0L NA engine. I can be in 7th at 4k RPM in the GT3 at 80 MPH and I hit accelerator and watch as power adds over time. 7th in 2.7k RPM at 80 MPH in the C4 and I hit accelerator, boost comes on instantly and shove/power comes right away fast.
Just my opinion
04-06-2018, 09:09 PM
#39
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Join Date: Dec 2017
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Hey Peter, what's up? It's Rick from TMO. 
Have fun doing OneLap in the Cayman.
I drove a 718 with PDK and it didn't sound as bad as I expected but not nearly as good as a GT3 RS.
Have fun doing OneLap in the Cayman.I drove a 718 with PDK and it didn't sound as bad as I expected but not nearly as good as a GT3 RS.
04-06-2018, 10:49 PM
#40
Without turning this into a PDK vs 7-speed debate, i found the perfect car for my needs BUT i only plan to keep it for about 3 months. I was going to do the power mods and maybe some very minimal track prep in the form of additional camber, brake lines and pads. Do you think it will hurt me trying to do this with a 7-spd vs. a PDK? I have been asking around and the consensus seems to be that the track focused people might want PDK BUT anyone buying the car for a weekend cruiser wouldn't mind a 7-spd.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
04-07-2018, 02:26 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
Forgot to mention: That 718 Cayman 6MT had a nicer chassis, all up, than my GT4. Not as firm for track work, of course, but it felt like it benefitted from allllll the lessons learned with the GT4 and then added a few tricks of its own. Just felt super dialed and intuitive. The 718 chassis might be Porsche's best handling road car to date, and them's big words. The turbo four's torque means you can really put it to work, too.
04-07-2018, 11:26 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Still liking the GT350 but my car ADD kicks in after about 2 years. Yes GT3 sound awesome and wanted a .2GT3 but won't play the ADM game. Will look into getting one in a couple of years after the posers sell them. Peter
04-13-2018, 11:28 AM
#43
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Sorry for the delay in updating...we went on the road to Road Atlanta and then to test out the snow setup at Mid Ohio in preparation of the upcoming IMSA race. I am still on the hunt for a development car. I came across this great Miami Blue car that was owned by a friend of mine whom you all probably know. I think the price is right, it has the PASM and PSE that most will want and it's a perfectly track oriented car and i love it but i wonder if others will love a Miami Blue 7-spd car. The ultimate goal would be to retrofit the GTS turbos and do 3 bolt-on upgrades in the form of intake, exhaust and tuning, for which this car would be perfect. If i had a buyer interested in the car in 6 weeks time i would pull the trigger but i am trying to put the cart in front of the horse.
https://www.porschetowson.com/invent...i+Blue+1538515
Hi Mike - I sent you a message on the BookFace! I should have known that you would be running a PDK GTS in some shape or form!
This is why i love Rennlist - even CJ chimes in! I don't know how i missed this reply. Arya has been doing his best to help me find a car and i told him once i am done with the upgrades i would give you guys the recipe! Good to hear from you and even better to know that while you could pick anything, you picked a .2 GTS for the track. Congrats on the Acura program btw!
It looks like you are keeping your car stock but in the event that you are interested in upgrades, if i cant engineer a plan to get a development car and find someone interested in buying it 6 weeks from now, i would be willing to make a deal to install parts at my cost and eat the labor if we could document everything we do on your car. It would be about a day's worth of work to install the parts and then an additional morning for a few baseline dyno runs for documentation reasons. Thanks!
https://www.porschetowson.com/invent...i+Blue+1538515
It looks like you are keeping your car stock but in the event that you are interested in upgrades, if i cant engineer a plan to get a development car and find someone interested in buying it 6 weeks from now, i would be willing to make a deal to install parts at my cost and eat the labor if we could document everything we do on your car. It would be about a day's worth of work to install the parts and then an additional morning for a few baseline dyno runs for documentation reasons. Thanks!
04-13-2018, 01:26 PM
#44
Three Wheelin'
John, if I lived in Florida I would give you my GTS in a second to do the mods.
I cant imagine that someone from RL isnt going to jump at the chance to have you mod their car for little to no cost.
Subscribed. Please keep updating with any info on tunes, mods, pipes, etc..
I cant imagine that someone from RL isnt going to jump at the chance to have you mod their car for little to no cost.
Subscribed. Please keep updating with any info on tunes, mods, pipes, etc..
04-13-2018, 02:14 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
I just want to say my GT3 that I just took delivery of is the bees knees. It's the pinnacle of the NA flat 6 and an awesome experience, especially as my first GT car. It has been only 3 days and it's already the best car I've ever owned and my favorite.
And you know what? It's incredible and says a lot to me that I took delivery of my GT3 and the two things I thought of was 1) this car is absolutely wicked and I really love this machine and 2) Porsche might know what they are doing as the turbo engines really are that good. Pete Stout who has a lot of seat time behind incredible 911s says that the 3.0 motor in the .2's is a masterpiece and I agree with him. It's not the same as the 4.0L in my GT3 but different does not mean suboptimal or second class. I was expecting my impressions of the GT3 to just about render my .2 C4 useless like a fart in a hurricane, but instead it was almost the opposite that I had a greater appreciation for the turbo 3.0L. I was expecting a David vs Goliath type of feeling but to me it's more like the GT3 is 10 out of 10 for ferocity across the rev range and the C4 is 9/10 in a shorter rev range of 2000-6500 under WOT with immense shove from the turbo versus very rapid linear delivery. I don't know what that means for tracking per se, but just wanted to chime in that I really appreciate the 3.0L motor for how fun it is. That's the best way I can sum it up is that the the GT3 feels just angry and wanting to be revved high all the time (which I appreciate and also love), whereas the 3.0L feels like a Jeckle and Hyde thing. Jeckle during daily driving and slow revs so you don't trigger a lot of boost, it's smooth and powerful, and Hyde during WOT with the boost shoving you from the behind quickly and a lot of fun. Also, at least for highway speeds at cruising gear (7th), the power comes on faster in the turbo 3.0L than it does in the 4.0L NA engine. I can be in 7th at 4k RPM in the GT3 at 80 MPH and I hit accelerator and watch as power adds over time. 7th in 2.7k RPM at 80 MPH in the C4 and I hit accelerator, boost comes on instantly and shove/power comes right away fast.
Just my opinion
And you know what? It's incredible and says a lot to me that I took delivery of my GT3 and the two things I thought of was 1) this car is absolutely wicked and I really love this machine and 2) Porsche might know what they are doing as the turbo engines really are that good. Pete Stout who has a lot of seat time behind incredible 911s says that the 3.0 motor in the .2's is a masterpiece and I agree with him. It's not the same as the 4.0L in my GT3 but different does not mean suboptimal or second class. I was expecting my impressions of the GT3 to just about render my .2 C4 useless like a fart in a hurricane, but instead it was almost the opposite that I had a greater appreciation for the turbo 3.0L. I was expecting a David vs Goliath type of feeling but to me it's more like the GT3 is 10 out of 10 for ferocity across the rev range and the C4 is 9/10 in a shorter rev range of 2000-6500 under WOT with immense shove from the turbo versus very rapid linear delivery. I don't know what that means for tracking per se, but just wanted to chime in that I really appreciate the 3.0L motor for how fun it is. That's the best way I can sum it up is that the the GT3 feels just angry and wanting to be revved high all the time (which I appreciate and also love), whereas the 3.0L feels like a Jeckle and Hyde thing. Jeckle during daily driving and slow revs so you don't trigger a lot of boost, it's smooth and powerful, and Hyde during WOT with the boost shoving you from the behind quickly and a lot of fun. Also, at least for highway speeds at cruising gear (7th), the power comes on faster in the turbo 3.0L than it does in the 4.0L NA engine. I can be in 7th at 4k RPM in the GT3 at 80 MPH and I hit accelerator and watch as power adds over time. 7th in 2.7k RPM at 80 MPH in the C4 and I hit accelerator, boost comes on instantly and shove/power comes right away fast.
Just my opinion