Need advice regarding Cup 2 tires
03-01-2018, 07:06 PM
#16
OP here,
While I don't (yet) track this car, I am looking for a tire which provides solid "turn in" feel. I was hoping that the Cup 2 choice would "feel" better winging it through the canyons (which is what I do, mostly) than the PS4S.
I could be way off here, but I was thinking the Cup 2 choice would perhaps "firm" up the feeling of the car a little bit (which is something I might like).
Is the Cup 2 dangerous in the rain if reasonable speeds and driving choices are made?
Thank you for all of your input, btw!
While I don't (yet) track this car, I am looking for a tire which provides solid "turn in" feel. I was hoping that the Cup 2 choice would "feel" better winging it through the canyons (which is what I do, mostly) than the PS4S.
I could be way off here, but I was thinking the Cup 2 choice would perhaps "firm" up the feeling of the car a little bit (which is something I might like).
Is the Cup 2 dangerous in the rain if reasonable speeds and driving choices are made?
Thank you for all of your input, btw!
Michelin created the PS4S with the Cup 2 in mind trying to still keep them as grippy as possible while also improving their ability in the wet. The outer part of the tread is very similar to the Cup 2 while the inner portion has deeper tread to channel water away better providing better grip in wet conditions than the Cup 2. If it were me (only you can decide what's best for your style of driving and what your needs are), I'd run PS4S for a car that was mostly street driven with the occasional track or autocross use. If it was mostly track driven and I really my skills were good enough to really "send it" on the track/autocross (which I can't...not that good), then I'd stick with Cup 2's. Honestly, if/when I get that good, I'll probably go with two separate tires. But it rains down here in NW Florida A LOT, hence my easy decision to ditch my practically brand new Cup 2's and get PS4S (It also helped that I was able to sell them to a fellow Rennlister for a great deal for both of us....half the price of brand new Cup 2's for him for a tire that basically had zero wear, but that covered 80% of my cost for new PS4S's). If you don't encounter rain very much, then maybe the Cup 2's are the right choice for you.
Here's a couple links/reviews on the PS4S for your consideration:
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/01...-at-cornering/
https://blog.caranddriver.com/michel...lot-sport-4-s/
Last edited by Class5Kayaker; 03-05-2018 at 03:42 PM.
03-01-2018, 11:27 PM
#17
I’ve only experienced my cup2s during winter rains. Have yet driven on warmer rainy days. And those are scary. I was driving about 80kmh and a car in front braked suddenly and on a dry day it would have just been an easy tap in the brakes to slow down. But my tires completely lost grip and my ABS went crazy trying to keep the car in check.
I always drive easy during poor weather anyways but that was a wake up call to really take it easy during cold wet days.
If you dont track and go through a lot of cold weather, I don’t recommend. I track all year so I stick with the cup2s and drive easy until I get to track.
On dry dry warm days cup2s are amazing. And the sidewall makes the car look so much more aggressive than stock pirellies
I always drive easy during poor weather anyways but that was a wake up call to really take it easy during cold wet days.
If you dont track and go through a lot of cold weather, I don’t recommend. I track all year so I stick with the cup2s and drive easy until I get to track.
On dry dry warm days cup2s are amazing. And the sidewall makes the car look so much more aggressive than stock pirellies
03-02-2018, 07:23 AM
#19
Drifting
Did you say where you live? Your original question about camber (which I can't answer because I've not run Cups on a Carrera) didn't mention concern about cold weather and wet traction. In and around Atlanta we have had a very cold winter for us, and a normal amount of rainfall, which is a lot. I've been caught out in rain and was very conscious to drive with caution because like I said, not only do I have Cup2s, but they have 9500 miles on them. Not to the wear bars yet, but close. I've experiemented with them in places where a skid or even a mild spin wouldn't be a disaster, and they refused to give up their grip. Yeah, they're never going to move big amounts of standing rain as well as tires with more (and deeper) grooves will. But bearing that in mind, I modulate speed when I'm in a downpour and have never had even a nervous handling moment.
That said, like everybody has said, the PS4 is supposed to be a great tire, and if it's stickier than the Super Sport I'm sure it is. It probably handles rain a little better than the Cup, given it's deeper grooves. I'm sure it's a better street tire than the Cup. I just don't want you to think a person can't drive Cups on the street. It's not even uncommon to do so.
That said, like everybody has said, the PS4 is supposed to be a great tire, and if it's stickier than the Super Sport I'm sure it is. It probably handles rain a little better than the Cup, given it's deeper grooves. I'm sure it's a better street tire than the Cup. I just don't want you to think a person can't drive Cups on the street. It's not even uncommon to do so.
03-02-2018, 08:09 AM
#20
I don't own either -- still running my P's -- but at the Porsche Parade in VT the Michelin guy's weren't running the Cup 2's in the drive test and I asked why. The answer was that "there was some standing water on the course and they did not run those tires in those conditions". Kind of made my mind up as the chance of me running into standing water while driving the car is quite high.
03-02-2018, 12:51 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
I don't own either -- still running my P's -- but at the Porsche Parade in VT the Michelin guy's weren't running the Cup 2's in the drive test and I asked why. The answer was that "there was some standing water on the course and they did not run those tires in those conditions". Kind of made my mind up as the chance of me running into standing water while driving the car is quite high.
The Cup2s look really cool, so if that’s your thing go for it. I for one like things to look good and perform well, hence I bought a Porsche!
if you want to try them, go for it, they won’t last long anyway.
The Super Sports (PS4S, a little diff, but close), are also capable on track. Yes, it’s a street tire and you won’t be as fast but you’ll be able to hold your own against similar drivers/cars at a DE event. The best part is that you can drive in the rain on track with them, you’ll get practice driving the rain line.
Sport cups 2 can be driven when raining, it just depends on the amount of rain, the road and a bunch of other crap les you can’t control.
03-02-2018, 12:54 PM
#22
OP here (again),
I live in Southern California, but plan on driving on "road trips". I can be very careful if I find myself in wet conditions - and my trips will most often be planned for Summer months as my son would be off school.
I'm looking for both performance and "feel" - that is, I like the feeling of a quick and precise "turn in" when cornering.
I really appreciate all of your input and advice.
Has anyone tried adding the GT3 front control arms? Did this increase the "turn in" feel?
Thank you!
I live in Southern California, but plan on driving on "road trips". I can be very careful if I find myself in wet conditions - and my trips will most often be planned for Summer months as my son would be off school.
I'm looking for both performance and "feel" - that is, I like the feeling of a quick and precise "turn in" when cornering.
I really appreciate all of your input and advice.
Has anyone tried adding the GT3 front control arms? Did this increase the "turn in" feel?
Thank you!
03-02-2018, 01:40 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
As someone who has gone through 5 sets of SC2's (on 2 different 991 C2's) over the last two years here is my thinking and my rating on them:
Normal Driving - Dry conditions:
After they heat up, they are about the best DOT legal tire made. They wear fairly well. A bit noisy but I don't mind - sort of got used to it. 9/10
Normal Driving - Normal Wet Conditions:
Totally acceptable wet performance 8/10
Normal Driving - Extreme Wet Conditions:
If there is standing water, it is best to pull over until it subsides and the standing water runs off. If there large amounts of water on the road, I have found that the speed limit could not be maintained safely. This is a real problem on a highway with a 3 ton SUV bearing down on you at 20 mph over the speed limit. Again best to pull over and wait it out. 4/10
Winter Conditions:
Totally acceptable performance in weather above 20 degrees as long as you drive slowly until the tire heats up. Below 20 degrees and never in snow don't drive them. They could chunk out, not to mention driving like you are on hockey pucks. 7/10
Track Conditions:
Dry: About as good a tire as one can have. Only slicks will stick better. They tend to get a bit overheated but if properly managed, very serviceable. 9/10
Wet: Not great, but I have run them n the wet. I usually work on smoothness on these wet runs. 6/10
I found the best solution was to run OEM for the street and had dedicated track wheels and SC2's for the track. While this solution was a good one, it did not help much when driving to or from the track in heavy rain.
Normal Driving - Dry conditions:
After they heat up, they are about the best DOT legal tire made. They wear fairly well. A bit noisy but I don't mind - sort of got used to it. 9/10
Normal Driving - Normal Wet Conditions:
Totally acceptable wet performance 8/10
Normal Driving - Extreme Wet Conditions:
If there is standing water, it is best to pull over until it subsides and the standing water runs off. If there large amounts of water on the road, I have found that the speed limit could not be maintained safely. This is a real problem on a highway with a 3 ton SUV bearing down on you at 20 mph over the speed limit. Again best to pull over and wait it out. 4/10
Winter Conditions:
Totally acceptable performance in weather above 20 degrees as long as you drive slowly until the tire heats up. Below 20 degrees and never in snow don't drive them. They could chunk out, not to mention driving like you are on hockey pucks. 7/10
Track Conditions:
Dry: About as good a tire as one can have. Only slicks will stick better. They tend to get a bit overheated but if properly managed, very serviceable. 9/10
Wet: Not great, but I have run them n the wet. I usually work on smoothness on these wet runs. 6/10
I found the best solution was to run OEM for the street and had dedicated track wheels and SC2's for the track. While this solution was a good one, it did not help much when driving to or from the track in heavy rain.
03-02-2018, 08:17 PM
#25
Anyone running the Cup2s 265 front 325 rear by any chance? It'd be within range for Sport Techno widths (9 and 11.5 inch wheel width). Or is the general consensus to stay w 245/305 ?
03-02-2018, 08:24 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
03-02-2018, 09:02 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Of course, I put away my MPSS and brought out the SC2s a couple weeks ago, and since then, we've had pouring rain! I think I'm the solution to NorCal's drought.
03-02-2018, 09:24 PM
#29
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by 3Series
My opinion, if you don’t track, there’s no point in the Cup 2s. Aggressive canyon carving doesn’t even come close to counting.
The Cup2s look really cool, so if that’s your thing go for it. I for one like things to look good and perform well, hence I bought a Porsche!
if you want to try them, go for it, they won’t last long anyway.
The Super Sports (PS4S, a little diff, but close), are also capable on track. Yes, it’s a street tire and you won’t be as fast but you’ll be able to hold your own against similar drivers/cars at a DE event. The best part is that you can drive in the rain on track with them, you’ll get practice driving the rain line.
Sport cups 2 can be driven when raining, it just depends on the amount of rain, the road and a bunch of other crap les you can’t control.
The Cup2s look really cool, so if that’s your thing go for it. I for one like things to look good and perform well, hence I bought a Porsche!
if you want to try them, go for it, they won’t last long anyway.
The Super Sports (PS4S, a little diff, but close), are also capable on track. Yes, it’s a street tire and you won’t be as fast but you’ll be able to hold your own against similar drivers/cars at a DE event. The best part is that you can drive in the rain on track with them, you’ll get practice driving the rain line.
Sport cups 2 can be driven when raining, it just depends on the amount of rain, the road and a bunch of other crap les you can’t control.
I bought it from Costco (yes, the horror). I swap them with winters for $40. Maybe a bit of a hassle, but it's quite cheaper than another wheel set.
03-06-2018, 05:57 PM
#30
alignment first
Why not try a different alignment set up for the quicker turn-in first. I've read the 911 comes stock with a lot of toe-in. Adjust the toe and add some neg camber. A shop which does race alignments will know best...